good 10mm auto?

[DK76]

I am wanting to get a 10mm auto. So far I have located three locally. An EEA, Glock 20, and S&W 1006. I ruled out the EEA although it was by far the cheapest ($300). The EEA's fit and finish was just awful as was the trigger and action. I can get a Glock 20 NIB for $550. I think Glocks are good, but I think they are to light in the frame and flip bad. I figure this would be even worse in 10mm. I loved the feel and heft of the S&W 1006. The sights were great also. The 1006 was used, but looked new. I could find nothing wrong with it. The dealer wanted $695 for the 1006. Is that a bit high? Does anyone have any experience with these 10mm autos? Pros and cons?

[Cheimison]

In my experience the Glock 20 is the most fun to shoot and the best to carry. All in all if you want the prettiest Colt Delta Elites are your best bet.

[Tom]

I have the Glock Model 20, the S&W 1006 and a Colt Delta Elite modified to as a comp gun. If you are interested in shooting the gun, then the Glock and Smith are probably more rugged than the Colt. I had the grip of the Glock modified by Robar, and added adjustable sights. It is a nice gun, but so is the Smith. Your choice will be based on personal preference.

[DK76]

Thanks for the replies. With the 10mm so superior as a defensive pistol round I can't understand why it dosen't have more of a following. There appears to be far more out there for the Glock as far as barrels, parts, etc. so that is what I will probably get. With the recent sunsetting of the assault weapons ban I presume the Glocks will again be coming with hi-cap magazines. Another plus.

[inplanotx]

Originally Posted by DK76

Thanks for the replies. With the 10mm so superior as a defensive pistol round I can't understand why it dosen't have more of a following. There appears to be far more out there for the Glock as far as barrels, parts, etc. so that is what I will probably get. With the recent sunsetting of the assault weapons ban I presume the Glocks will again be coming with hi-cap magazines. Another plus.

The reason the 10mm is not that widespread is that the 45ACP can do everything the 10mm can do with 1/2 the pressure and recoil. Even with heavier bullets. It has also been around for 100 years doing it!

[LDBennett]

DK76:

I have a Colt Delta Elite. When I first got it I loaded it up to full loads (not absolute max but full with 200 gr bullets). It was fun to shoot but the recoil was somethihg else. It didn't hurt like a 44Mag but twisted the gun in my hand more than any other gun I have ever shot. It was fun for awhile then I down loaded my ammo after that to what is today's 40 S&W levels. It recoils about like my 45ACP guns with this down loaded ammo and is still fun to shoot.

Seems dumb to buy a 10mm and load it down to 40 S&W except then there was no 40 S&W and I didn't own a 45ACP gun. I still have the option (which I occasionally take) to shoot at full load levels if I want. Can't do that with either the 40 S&W (I have one of those too) or the 45 ACP guns I have.

By the way the Colt is beautifully finished, nicely fit and mine has had a little accurizing done to it (drop in trigger, Group Grabber long recoil guide, fitted barrel bush, adjustable sights). I personally don't like light plastic guns (Glock) and the S&W 10 mm had a time when the S&W quality control in general left something to be desired (new ones are great!)

LDBennett

[kravi]

Originally Posted by inplanotx

The reason the 10mm is not that widespread is that the 45ACP can do everything the 10mm can do with 1/2 the pressure and recoil. Even with heavier bullets. It has also been around for 100 years doing it!

Preach it, my brother!!!!!

--kravi

[kravi]

P.S. I just went to the Smith&Wesson website and this was the only pistol (revolver) that they had listed as shooting 10mm. Where is the 1006? Out of service?

--kravi

[DK76]

Thanks for the replies. I do think it has been a while since the 1006 was avaliable new. A buddy of mine knows someone that owns a Glock 20 and he is arranging a meeting so I can shoot the thing. I love the 45 ACP also and have owned many, but I don't think the 45 ACP can safely match the energy levels possible with the 10mm. I was just wanting something new and on paper the 10mm seems to be the most powerful thing you can get in a standard auto.

[inplanotx]

Originally Posted by DK76

Thanks for the replies. I do think it has been a while since the 1006 was avaliable new. A buddy of mine knows someone that owns a Glock 20 and he is arranging a meeting so I can shoot the thing. I love the 45 ACP also and have owned many, but I don't think the 45 ACP can safely match the energy levels possible with the 10mm. I was just wanting something new and on paper the 10mm seems to be the most powerful thing you can get in a standard auto.

Since you so believe that the 10mm is superior, please show us the ballistic charts to prove it. I think you'll find that overall, the 45 ACP is superior overall. Maybe the 45 Super? That should do you. I think you will find the full power 10mm loads a little stiff. If you can't shoot it straight, all the power in the world will do you absolutely no good in a gun fight. Good luck.

[stash247]

The 10mm is an excellent round, for practiced shooters, with a large budget!
For the rest of us, who haven't the time for broken guns (ask the FBI), orthopedic surgeons (also ask the FBI), does it really answer a question?
The 1911, in the guise and caliber it was originally designed, works ? acceptably? well.
How dead is dead??? if the guy falls down, etc, isn't that enough? Seems like, to me, we are looking for a "universial soldier" without regard for real world value.
If one can shoot well, almost any caliber will do; if not, no power level is enough. Bottom line is, burn more powder, shoot more, with less!

[kravi]

P.S. Kimber now makes a 10mm 1911 style pistol, the Eclipse Custom II 10mm! Don't know anything about it, but it might be right up your alley. I love kimber guns (I've got a Custom II for .45ACP and I love her).

--kravi

[LDBennett]

stash247:

How many different calibers do you find listed in reloading manuals? Certainly hundreds! Man is never happy unless he is innovating. Is this better than that? Is one kind of dead different than another kind of dead?

Lets not kid ourselves. Almost none of us ever wants to get in the situation where we are forced into gun combat. We own guns because they fascinate us. A new or different cartridge caliber is an opportunity to own still another gun. Why do men climb Mt Everest? Because it is there. Why do men (and women) own 10mm pistols? Because they are there and we can.

Enough talk about 45 ACP being better or worse than 10mm or any other cartridge caliber. As long as they go bang when we want them to, they are all great!

LDBennett

[DK76]

Didn't mean for this to be a 45 vs. 10mm debate. I love the 45 ACP and I feel it is an exceptional personal defense round. I think the 1911 45 ACP is probably the best ever combat/defensive handgun. I've owned a few 1911's and shot scores more. Out of a 5" barrel, with the same weight bullets, and staying within proper specs the 10mm can propel slugs on average 200 fps faster than a 45 ACP. One example-

Hornady 5th edition:
10mm auto 4" barrel: 180 grain bullet-1250 fps, 200 grain bullet-1150 fps
45 ACP 5" barrel: 185 grain bullet-1050, 200 grain bullet-1000 fps

The 10mm generates more energy. More recoil also I am sure, but that is always an individual determination. Most often handgun recoil dosen't bother me. Rifles and shotguns is a different story.

Also, I fish and hunt alot in areas frequented by big black bears that show no fear of people. I wanted something light and short that offered better penetrating capabilities than my 45's. Can't argue that a Glock 20 with 15 rounds of 10mm isn't one powerful little package! Oh yeah, I also want a 10mm because I can

[CBR1000RR]

I would get me a magnum revolver or a good rifle for those bars ya talkin bout...

if ya must have the 10mm, get a delta elite, with some tough wolf springs for the mags... im told theyre notorious. fun gun to shoot.
Shoot why dont you get a magnum research 500s&w if you want a big bang..my range buddy just got one, holy crap! is all I gotta say....

[bambihunter]

What you guys are looking at and quoting are the watered down .40 S&W levels. Good companies like DoubleTap, GeorgiaArms, and Reed1911 offer excellent 10mm ammo that is loaded to the original Norma specs. Just because a few wimpy cadets couldn't handle the power of the 10mm doesn't mean we should water it down...
There are loads available commercially that are loaded within the original pressure parameters (no +P's) that are about 1,600 fps and have over 750 Ft. Lbs of energy. Show me a .45 that'll do that... The .40 caliber class has a very wide range of bullet weights (I know it ranges from 135-220 at least) also. So, for handloaders it is a VERY versatile cartridge.

Enough about the caliber. There's no convicing many people about some things. I will say that every one of my hunting buddies that has shot or seen the results of game taken with my 10mm has either borrowed my 10mm or bought one for themselves. Think of the 10mm as a very strong .357 mag in an auto loader...

Now, about the pistols.
I've got a lot of experience with the 10mm round as well as the firearms that shoot it. I didn't notice what your intended use for the firearm is. This can make a big difference in which one you pick.
The Glock is a light weight gun that packs a big punch with 15+ rounds of the potent 10mm. It makes a very potent home defense as well as self defense in the woods. It is a little large to carry for CCW, but it can be done.
The 1006 is a very sturdy gun. They ceased production on this gun in '96 I believe (without looking it up). However, it shares many parts with the other calibers in the S&W 3rd generation line-up. They are accurate, especially in SA mode. They are thin which makes them easier to conceal for CCW use. However, they weigh twice what the Glock does. Yes, the $695 is quite a bit too high for the 1006. I gave $640 for mine, and that included delivery, FFL transfer, box, papers, and 6 magazines.
The Witness line are a real value gun for the money. If you get one, expect to have to do some minor polishing to the slide rails and especially the feed ramp. They are based on the CZ-75 design which has been around quite a while and is proven just as much as the 1911 design 10mm's like the Delta Elites, Dan Wesson, and Kimbers. One thing to keep in mind with the Witness is that the import company is E.A.A and they totally suck with customer service and relations so you might as well buy a gun knowing that you are on your own. Like I said though, they normally don't take much to make them working perfectly - just a little polishing.

If you have any further questions about any 10mm's just email me. I have owned a shot a lot of them. Here's a link to a similar topic on another forum where I posted a pic of my 10mm's (which doesn't include my latest two) and also links to comparison pictures to show the relative size between various models.

[Crpdeth]

Originally Posted by LDBennett

stash247:
Lets not kid ourselves. Almost none of us ever wants to get in the situation where we are forced into gun combat. We own guns because they fascinate us. A new or different cartridge caliber is an opportunity to own still another gun. Why do men climb Mt Everest? Because it is there. Why do men (and women) own 10mm pistols? Because they are there and we can.
LDBennett

I wish I could have expressed my thoughts as eloquently here while back...I basicly summed it up and said "Cause I can"...LOL, I think someone took it the wrong way, but I agree.

Originally Posted by stash247

If one can shoot well, almost any caliber will do; if not, no power level is enough.

I may have to put this in my sig...with your permission of course....It's perfect.

~Crpdeth

[offeror]

I bought the 1076 (the model developed by FBI request) -- I got a near new one from a local dealer some years ago ($500) and never been sorry. The other semi-auto I'd recommend is the G20. Keep in mind that the slide of the G20 is milled heavier than the G21 to address the issue you mentioned. You can now find 1076s and other S&W 10mm models coming off LEO duty at very good prices.

The Colts DID have a bad rep regarding this cartridge and it was indeed torque in the shootin' hand that was the problem. But not all 10s had such an issue.

You can get many more foot-pounds out of the best 10mm loads -- I buy Cor-Bon and Hornady for mine -- no "down-loading" for me. It shoots like a .41 magnum, and that's why more people don't carry it -- too much gun for follow-up shots for some people. But it IS a good defense round, and compares in stopping power stats (don't laugh, please) to the .357.

The 1076 has a decocker and fires DA/SA, so may be carried by most people with chamber loaded and ready to fire. Mine went back to S&W for their recall checks and upgrades and they must have done the trigger too, because it is smooooooth. I wrote their 'smiths a note saying it would be nice if they could give me "one of the best 1076s on the planet." I think maybe they actually listened... Anyway, it came back with new night sights too.

Didn't mean for this to be a 45 vs. 10mm debate. I love the 45 ACP and I feel it is an exceptional personal defense round.

Me too.

[eric cartman]

Originally Posted by Cheimison

In my experience the Glock 20 is the most fun to shoot and the best to carry. All in all if you want the prettiest Colt Delta Elites are your best bet.

Ditto, I own both the Glock 20 & the Colt Delta Elite in 10mm.
They are both very smooth shooters and very accurate

[DK76]

Some good info there, thanks. I can't wait to shoot a Glock 20. I will probably buy one soon. Most Glocks I shot were very accurate. This is a sort of do everything pistol that I am looking for. I like the 10mm for it's versatility. On the max end it should offer good penetration and on the low end it is still a respectable self defense round. Like I said I spend alot of time in the woods and wanted something light, powerful, effective on four legged critters, and make a good carry pistol. The 10mm just seems about right for what I am looking for. After a while my 480 Ruger feels like a boat anchor on my hip. Who knows, the G20 may be exactly what I am looking for.