Noobie question weight vs powder die - The Firearms Forum

Pops Fun · 12-01-2008, 03:01 PM

Hi
I have a new lee pro 1000. Just trying to get it to work properly

.
Finally threw some powder today. I am using IMX 800X powder, loading 9mm, 115 grain bullets. According to Modern reloading I need 6.2 grains of powder for a start load. It says use a .66 auto-disk. When I use the .66 auto-disk I get 5.4 grains?? When I look in the shell I see about a 3/4 load, book volume is .67? Weighing on a Cabela XT 1500 digital scale.

Do I need to try different auto-disc or get a new scale? The scale seems to calibrate correctly with the 50 gram test weight??

Steve, confused in Cincinnati

LDBennett · 12-01-2008, 03:41 PM

My experience with the Lee Auto Disk powder measure was that the charts were not very accurate. I would trust the powder scales and increase to a different disk until the measure throws charges just at or below the desired weight. So, forget the chart. Just use your scale to get to the correct weight charge. But do check the powder scales accuracy with the test weight.

LDBennett

FJF0311 · 12-01-2008, 03:46 PM

Throw ten charges, then average them.
Change disk if necessary.
Weigh every tenth charge.
If you throw enough charges, vibration will pack the powder down in the powder measure, creating heavier loads!
When I use a progressive, I always load to the light side.
Some powder measures may "Fluff" the charge.
My RCBS powder measure, when using Reloader 7, fluffs enough, that a charge no where's near maximum must be gently tapped, to make room for the bullet.
As far as the accuracy of your scale, compare with someone else's if possible. Buy a cheap beam type as a back up. You MUST have a scale you trust!

Pops Fun · 12-01-2008, 04:06 PM

Hi
thanks for helping a new guy!!

Another noobie question.

When I spill powder (imr 800x), clumsy.... How do you clean up?

brush back to the powder can... ?
brush and throw away, spread outside?
pick up every little grain?
vacuum up with shop vac? (don't think so)
How do you clean up??

Steve

Shellback · 12-01-2008, 04:20 PM

I sure wouldn't put it back in the can, more then likely it will be contaminated, I put mine in my wifes flower bed behind my shop. I just sweep it and trow it out.
Tim

FJF0311 · 12-01-2008, 04:57 PM

A shop vac is fine, with the proper filters, not just the foam core. Use a paper over filter. Don't let it accumulate! empty after every use. a few grains would be harmless. I know someone is going to storm in here over this, just use your head! plus the vacuum gets it out of those tiny places that can cause a big lock up down the road.

Pops Fun · 12-01-2008, 05:23 PM

Another noobie question.
When you measure a finished bullet. Shell and bullet together.

modern reloading has a drawing that says it should be 1.169". Yet my UMC 9mm bullets are 1.088. Do mine have to be 1.169" or can they somewhere between?
The question is:
Is there a tolerance that I should be between or should they be exact 1.169"

FJF0311 · 12-01-2008, 05:34 PM

Make sure they fit the magazine, and chamber well. short is better than long. too close to the lands=higher pressures, BAD!
Case length is important in auto loaders, due to that is how they head space. Not OAL.

Pops Fun · 12-03-2008, 08:30 AM

Hi
I am a complete newbie to this. After some frustration getting my pro 1000 set up

Info again: I have started dropping powder ..... I am making 9mm ammunition using 115 grain bullets and changed to Winchester 231 powder. Weighing on a Cabela xt 1500 scale. The modern reloading book says 4.3 minimum grains and 4.8 max.

Using the .40 powder disc it drops an average (30 loads) of 4.2 grains. min 4.1 and max of 4.2? (4.3 minimum in the book)
The .43 disc throws an average (15) of 4.52 grains, min 4.4 (1) max 4.6 ?? (4.8 is the max in the book)

Now they say start with the minimum and work up. Using the .43 I'd be at in the middle which is a little toward the high side.

Do I open up the .40 (drill/sandpaper) so it throws a little more powder?? Or just make ammunition using the avg of 4.52) and shut up!!

Steve

LDBennett · 12-03-2008, 03:49 PM

Pops Fun:

That Lee disk measure is NOT ideal but their drum one is just as bad. But you have to use what you got....

You are trying to get at 4.3 to 4.8 grains of W231:

The .40 disk get 4.2 grains on average

The .43 get 4.5 grains on average.

So there you have it... your starting load will be with the .40 disk and your max load is with the .43 disk. That gives you 4.2 to 4.5 grains. Unless you are having a contest with someone to see who can load the fastest 9mm round, stopping at 4.5 grains is absolutely fine (the gun will last longer) and starting 1/10th grain below the starting load is no problem. Most measures are only good to 1/10 grain anyway. Go for it!

Pistol loads with W231 and cartridges from 38 Special and up can vary by 1/10 th grain with no problem and you will not be able to detect it on the target 99.9% of the time. Super accurate powder measurements are totally swamped out by all the other varibles in reloading ammo. Strive for repeatability but 1/10 grain accuracy in powder measurements is more than good enough. And starting 1/10th grain below the starting load level is also more than good enough.

GENERAL INFORMATION:

Hodgdon HP38 and W231 are the same exact powder. Winchester says 4.3 to 4.8 grains and Hodgdon says 4.7 to 5.1 grains. Winchester is being conservative. But if it is cast lead or swedged lead bullet you are using then keep the velocities low (less powder) or getting the lead out of your barrel after a range session will be a nightmare. If it is jacketed bullets you are using then go for the higher limit of Hodgdon.

The Lee measure is throwing charges about a 1/10th grain low so I think to get closer to the max load of 4.8 grains you could even use the .46 disk but check it out by testing first. Don't waste your time modifying the disk holes but get as close as you can to your max without exceeeding it.

Hope this helps.

LDBennett

Pops Fun · 12-04-2008, 07:55 AM

Hi
Thanks for the info. I loaded 20 last night 4.4/4.5 grains and am taking them to the range this morning.

Steve

artabr · 12-04-2008, 09:18 AM

Pops, I'd be careful about seating your bullets too deep. The over all length listed in your manual is there for a reason.
If you seat your bullets too deep you will increase your pressure sometimes by a very dangerous amount!!
The .40 S&W is real bad about this. The chart at the top of the link below is for the .40 S&W and I know that you are loading 9 m/m, but it gives you an idea of how dangerous this could be.
It don't take much to do a world of hurt on your gun or even worse, yourself or a loved one. Stick to the book.

http://www.greent.com/40Page/ammo/40/180gr.htm

Art

The_Vigilante · 12-04-2008, 11:59 PM

Pops Fun,

I have the Lee Classic Turret Press and the Lee Pro Auto Disk Powder Measure. I used the disks for a while and got the same results you have been getting. I had to use a powder trickler to get to the correct charge.
Then I got the Lee Auto Disk Adjustable Powder Charge Bar and I stopped using the discs. It is $9.99 on Midway and is a bargain. Read the reviews on Midway.

Pops Fun · 12-05-2008, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by artabr

Pops, I'd be careful about seating your bullets too deep. The over all length listed in your manual is there for a reason.
If you seat your bullets too deep you will increase your pressure sometimes by a very dangerous amount!!
The .40 S&W is real bad about this. The chart at the top of the link below is for the .40 S&W and I know that you are loading 9 m/m, but it gives you an idea of how dangerous this could be.
It don't take much to do a world of hurt on your gun or even worse, yourself or a loved one. Stick to the book.

http://www.greent.com/40Page/ammo/40/180gr.htm

Art

Hi
Thanks for the info. I have read it once and will reread it again to understand it better!!

Steve

Pops Fun · 12-05-2008, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Vigilante

Pops Fun,

I have the Lee Classic Turret Press and the Lee Pro Auto Disk Powder Measure. I used the disks for a while and got the same results you have been getting. I had to use a powder trickler to get to the correct charge.
Then I got the Lee Auto Disk Adjustable Powder Charge Bar and I stopped using the discs. It is $9.99 on Midway and is a bargain. Read the reviews on Midway.

Hi
Thanks for the reply. I will definitely get this on my next order!!

12-01-2008, 03:01 PM	#1
Pops Fun Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 8	Noobie question weight vs powder die Hi I have a new lee pro 1000. Just trying to get it to work properly . Finally threw some powder today. I am using IMX 800X powder, loading 9mm, 115 grain bullets. According to Modern reloading I need 6.2 grains of powder for a start load. It says use a .66 auto-disk. When I use the .66 auto-disk I get 5.4 grains?? When I look in the shell I see about a 3/4 load, book volume is .67? Weighing on a Cabela XT 1500 digital scale. Do I need to try different auto-disc or get a new scale? The scale seems to calibrate correctly with the 50 gram test weight?? Steve, confused in Cincinnati -->

12-01-2008, 03:41 PM	#2
LDBennett Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hesperia, CA Posts: 5,714	Re: Noobie question weight vs powder die My experience with the Lee Auto Disk powder measure was that the charts were not very accurate. I would trust the powder scales and increase to a different disk until the measure throws charges just at or below the desired weight. So, forget the chart. Just use your scale to get to the correct weight charge. But do check the powder scales accuracy with the test weight. LDBennett Last edited by LDBennett; 12-01-2008 at 03:42 PM..

12-01-2008, 03:46 PM	#3
FJF0311 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Mt. Airy, MD Posts: 269	Re: Noobie question weight vs powder die Throw ten charges, then average them. Change disk if necessary. Weigh every tenth charge. If you throw enough charges, vibration will pack the powder down in the powder measure, creating heavier loads! When I use a progressive, I always load to the light side. Some powder measures may "Fluff" the charge. My RCBS powder measure, when using Reloader 7, fluffs enough, that a charge no where's near maximum must be gently tapped, to make room for the bullet. As far as the accuracy of your scale, compare with someone else's if possible. Buy a cheap beam type as a back up. You MUST have a scale you trust!

12-01-2008, 04:06 PM	#4
Pops Fun Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 8	Re: Noobie question weight vs powder die Hi thanks for helping a new guy!! Another noobie question. When I spill powder (imr 800x), clumsy.... How do you clean up? brush back to the powder can... ? brush and throw away, spread outside? pick up every little grain? vacuum up with shop vac? (don't think so) How do you clean up?? Steve

12-01-2008, 04:20 PM	#5
Shellback Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Broken Arrow Ok Posts: 950	Re: Noobie question weight vs powder die I sure wouldn't put it back in the can, more then likely it will be contaminated, I put mine in my wifes flower bed behind my shop. I just sweep it and trow it out. Tim __________________ The Plumber Protects The Health of the Nation New World Order never, Sovreignty Forever

12-01-2008, 04:57 PM	#6
FJF0311 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Mt. Airy, MD Posts: 269	Re: Noobie question weight vs powder die A shop vac is fine, with the proper filters, not just the foam core. Use a paper over filter. Don't let it accumulate! empty after every use. a few grains would be harmless. I know someone is going to storm in here over this, just use your head! plus the vacuum gets it out of those tiny places that can cause a big lock up down the road.

12-01-2008, 05:23 PM	#7
Pops Fun Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 8	Re: Noobie question weight vs powder die Another noobie question. When you measure a finished bullet. Shell and bullet together. modern reloading has a drawing that says it should be 1.169". Yet my UMC 9mm bullets are 1.088. Do mine have to be 1.169" or can they somewhere between? The question is: Is there a tolerance that I should be between or should they be exact 1.169"

12-01-2008, 05:34 PM	#8
FJF0311 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Mt. Airy, MD Posts: 269	Re: Noobie question weight vs powder die Make sure they fit the magazine, and chamber well. short is better than long. too close to the lands=higher pressures, BAD! Case length is important in auto loaders, due to that is how they head space. Not OAL.

12-03-2008, 08:30 AM	#9
Pops Fun Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 8	Re: Noobie how much powder ?? Hi I am a complete newbie to this. After some frustration getting my pro 1000 set up Info again: I have started dropping powder ..... I am making 9mm ammunition using 115 grain bullets and changed to Winchester 231 powder. Weighing on a Cabela xt 1500 scale. The modern reloading book says 4.3 minimum grains and 4.8 max. Using the .40 powder disc it drops an average (30 loads) of 4.2 grains. min 4.1 and max of 4.2? (4.3 minimum in the book) The .43 disc throws an average (15) of 4.52 grains, min 4.4 (1) max 4.6 ?? (4.8 is the max in the book) Now they say start with the minimum and work up. Using the .43 I'd be at in the middle which is a little toward the high side. Do I open up the .40 (drill/sandpaper) so it throws a little more powder?? Or just make ammunition using the avg of 4.52) and shut up!! Steve __________________ Neebie with a Lee Pro 1000

12-03-2008, 03:49 PM	#10
LDBennett Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hesperia, CA Posts: 5,714	Re: Noobie question weight vs powder die Pops Fun: That Lee disk measure is NOT ideal but their drum one is just as bad. But you have to use what you got.... You are trying to get at 4.3 to 4.8 grains of W231: The .40 disk get 4.2 grains on average The .43 get 4.5 grains on average. So there you have it... your starting load will be with the .40 disk and your max load is with the .43 disk. That gives you 4.2 to 4.5 grains. Unless you are having a contest with someone to see who can load the fastest 9mm round, stopping at 4.5 grains is absolutely fine (the gun will last longer) and starting 1/10th grain below the starting load is no problem. Most measures are only good to 1/10 grain anyway. Go for it! Pistol loads with W231 and cartridges from 38 Special and up can vary by 1/10 th grain with no problem and you will not be able to detect it on the target 99.9% of the time. Super accurate powder measurements are totally swamped out by all the other varibles in reloading ammo. Strive for repeatability but 1/10 grain accuracy in powder measurements is more than good enough. And starting 1/10th grain below the starting load level is also more than good enough. GENERAL INFORMATION: Hodgdon HP38 and W231 are the same exact powder. Winchester says 4.3 to 4.8 grains and Hodgdon says 4.7 to 5.1 grains. Winchester is being conservative. But if it is cast lead or swedged lead bullet you are using then keep the velocities low (less powder) or getting the lead out of your barrel after a range session will be a nightmare. If it is jacketed bullets you are using then go for the higher limit of Hodgdon. The Lee measure is throwing charges about a 1/10th grain low so I think to get closer to the max load of 4.8 grains you could even use the .46 disk but check it out by testing first. Don't waste your time modifying the disk holes but get as close as you can to your max without exceeeding it. Hope this helps. LDBennett

12-04-2008, 07:55 AM	#11
Pops Fun Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 8	Re: Noobie question weight vs powder die Hi Thanks for the info. I loaded 20 last night 4.4/4.5 grains and am taking them to the range this morning. Steve __________________ Neebie with a Lee Pro 1000

12-04-2008, 09:18 AM	#12
artabr Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: New Iberia, Louisiana Contributor Posts: 7,859	Re: Noobie question weight vs powder die Pops, I'd be careful about seating your bullets too deep. The over all length listed in your manual is there for a reason. If you seat your bullets too deep you will increase your pressure sometimes by a very dangerous amount!! The .40 S&W is real bad about this. The chart at the top of the link below is for the .40 S&W and I know that you are loading 9 m/m, but it gives you an idea of how dangerous this could be. It don't take much to do a world of hurt on your gun or even worse, yourself or a loved one. Stick to the book. http://www.greent.com/40Page/ammo/40/180gr.htm Art __________________ God and the soldier we like adore, In times of trouble, not before. When troubles ended and all things righted, God is forgotten and the soldier is slighted. Francis Quarles 1592 - 1644 __________________ When asked for my race, I answer CauCajun. Hope is not a plan, and not all change is good. The resistance is here; the resistance is now. RESIST! These hands are neither cold nor are they dead!! Last edited by artabr; 12-04-2008 at 09:30 AM..

12-04-2008, 11:59 PM	#13
The_Vigilante V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: El Paso, Texas Posts: 123	Re: Noobie question weight vs powder die Pops Fun, I have the Lee Classic Turret Press and the Lee Pro Auto Disk Powder Measure. I used the disks for a while and got the same results you have been getting. I had to use a powder trickler to get to the correct charge. Then I got the Lee Auto Disk Adjustable Powder Charge Bar and I stopped using the discs. It is $9.99 on Midway and is a bargain. Read the reviews on Midway. __________________ The_Vigilante "Keeping the streets safe." "A man can never own enough guns." Last edited by The_Vigilante; 12-05-2008 at 12:02 AM..