old shotgun id - The Firearms Forum

cj7rubicon · 12-10-2009, 08:41 PM

This was handed down from my grandfather,but i dont know its history before that.The only numbers i can find on it read either 8963 or 3963 cant really make it out.No wood on it at all,lots of dustrust and some pitting.Most of the flat trigger springs are missing.Looks to be 12 gauge.

I have searched for pics that look similar to this but didnt come up with anything.Thanks for looking and helping a newbie.

hrf · 12-10-2009, 09:38 PM

Maybe a later model of this one, advertised in 1884 catalog of E. C. Meacham, St Louis. Not identical, as yours appears to have had a pistol grip stock. If so, probably an Iver Johnson.

hrf · 12-10-2009, 09:54 PM

Suspicion confirmed, here's your "new model" in the 1890 J. P. Lovell catalog.

cj7rubicon · 12-10-2009, 09:56 PM

Wow,that looks alot like it.My dad remembers it hanging on a wall when he was a kid in the 50s.He said it could have been his grandpas.

cj7rubicon · 12-10-2009, 09:57 PM

Thanks alot for the info!

RJay · 12-10-2009, 11:21 PM

Both Hopkins and Allen { which seems to be an infringement of Iver Johnsons Patent } and Iver Johnson made a side lever shotgun. Since Champion was a Iver Johnson Model name and J.P. Lovell had the rights to sell Iver Johnson firearms and by 1900 was owned by Iver Johnsons, well you take it from there. Myself, I would say that you have a side snap Iver Johnson. At least what is left of one, a relic, really of a firearm Made around 1900, because Iver Johnson changed the name of Lovell's to Iver Johnson Sporting Goods. Most of this information was lifted from Mr. B.Goforth research.

cj7rubicon · 12-11-2009, 11:24 PM

Are any parts available?Id like to make it a shooter to keep.I know I would probably need special ammo according to info Ive found on here.

RJay · 12-12-2009, 12:51 PM

Ammo would the the least of your problems. You would have to have a forearm made and the metal attachment parts would have to be hand made. A stock can be custom made and so can the missing parts, that is, can be made by gunsmith who is willing to take on such a project. I understand your desire to restore this old shotgun, but here is the reality. It would cost at least 10 times what the fire arm is valued at. from the looks of what you have, I don't believe it is a good candidate to restore. If you have your heart set on this, the cheapest route would to by a like item in working condition and swap parts. That would be about 2000 dollars cheaper. Now that is just MO, and as you know, like belly buttons evry one has different opinions. which ever way you go, the best of luck on it.

cj7rubicon · 12-12-2009, 01:10 PM

Ok,thanks for all the info.I was hoping someone made parts for it,but if they dont Ill just keep as is.Thanks again.

12-10-2009, 08:41 PM	#1
cj7rubicon Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 5	old shotgun id This was handed down from my grandfather,but i dont know its history before that.The only numbers i can find on it read either 8963 or 3963 cant really make it out.No wood on it at all,lots of dustrust and some pitting.Most of the flat trigger springs are missing.Looks to be 12 gauge. I have searched for pics that look similar to this but didnt come up with anything.Thanks for looking and helping a newbie. Attached Images --> Last edited by cj7rubicon; 12-10-2009 at 08:44 PM..

12-10-2009, 09:38 PM	#2
hrf Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2,278	Re: old shotgun id Maybe a later model of this one, advertised in 1884 catalog of E. C. Meacham, St Louis. Not identical, as yours appears to have had a pistol grip stock. If so, probably an Iver Johnson. Attached Images

12-10-2009, 09:54 PM	#3
hrf Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2,278	Re: old shotgun id Suspicion confirmed, here's your "new model" in the 1890 J. P. Lovell catalog. Attached Images

12-10-2009, 09:56 PM	#4
cj7rubicon Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 5	Re: old shotgun id Wow,that looks alot like it.My dad remembers it hanging on a wall when he was a kid in the 50s.He said it could have been his grandpas.

12-10-2009, 09:57 PM	#5
cj7rubicon Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 5	Re: old shotgun id Thanks alot for the info!

12-10-2009, 11:21 PM	#6
RJay Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,487	Re: old shotgun id Both Hopkins and Allen { which seems to be an infringement of Iver Johnsons Patent } and Iver Johnson made a side lever shotgun. Since Champion was a Iver Johnson Model name and J.P. Lovell had the rights to sell Iver Johnson firearms and by 1900 was owned by Iver Johnsons, well you take it from there. Myself, I would say that you have a side snap Iver Johnson. At least what is left of one, a relic, really of a firearm Made around 1900, because Iver Johnson changed the name of Lovell's to Iver Johnson Sporting Goods. Most of this information was lifted from Mr. B.Goforth research. __________________ RonJames Last edited by RJay; 12-11-2009 at 11:08 AM..

12-11-2009, 11:24 PM	#7
cj7rubicon Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 5	Re: old shotgun id Are any parts available?Id like to make it a shooter to keep.I know I would probably need special ammo according to info Ive found on here.

12-12-2009, 12:51 PM	#8
RJay Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,487	Re: old shotgun id Ammo would the the least of your problems. You would have to have a forearm made and the metal attachment parts would have to be hand made. A stock can be custom made and so can the missing parts, that is, can be made by gunsmith who is willing to take on such a project. I understand your desire to restore this old shotgun, but here is the reality. It would cost at least 10 times what the fire arm is valued at. from the looks of what you have, I don't believe it is a good candidate to restore. If you have your heart set on this, the cheapest route would to by a like item in working condition and swap parts. That would be about 2000 dollars cheaper. Now that is just MO, and as you know, like belly buttons evry one has different opinions. which ever way you go, the best of luck on it. __________________ RonJames Last edited by RJay; 12-12-2009 at 12:54 PM..

12-12-2009, 01:10 PM	#9
cj7rubicon Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 5	Re: old shotgun id Ok,thanks for all the info.I was hoping someone made parts for it,but if they dont Ill just keep as is.Thanks again.