Can a 1911 design last as long as a Sig P220?

[glocknut]

The P220 is a pretty good design to say the least.

Would the 1911 design in 45 run as many round through and stand up as well....at 20,000 rounds? I know the glock will.....

And-- what manufacturers make a good product?

I know of:
Kimber
springfield arm..
Charles Daley...bad?
I won't own a colt again....POS!! In fact i have never had good luck with a colt...pistol or rifle....

what else is out there?

Oh, and Please don't move this to the 1911 forum....you know what they will say....i want an honest opinion.

mike

[Xracer]

Well, as a design, the M1911 has lasted over a hundred years, so John M. Browning must've done something right.

It's the most copied design in firearms history.

The M1911 has done it's job from the deserts of Africa, to the tundra of the Aleutians. From the jungles of Guadalcanal to the frozen Chosin Reservoir.

From Belleau Wood to Bien Hoa, the 1911 has been there.....so I'd say it's a pretty sound design.

My Pin gun from the early '70's has well over 20,000 rounds thru it (and probably about triple that)....and is still going strong.

Good manufacturers? Kimber, Springfield, Wilson, Baer, Rock River, Ed Brown, Dan Wesson.

[Shooter45]

Kimber and Springfield make excellent 1911's.

Keep the weapon clean and oiled . Change the recoil spring every 5000 rounds and a 1911 will last forever.

I won't use the G word, as to keep an honest opinion.

[glocknut]

I'm about 10 miles away from berryville, ark where wilson's shop is. But i thought they just customized other brands, i did'nt realized they "manufactured" from scratch?

Springfield arm.. is the one i'm thinking of buying....then i hear Kimber is pretty good.

I had a friend years ago who bought a colt m1911a1 or something like that..the econo version, black matt finish, rotten sights...ect ect... it developed a crack in the slide that basicly finished its useful life and colt would'nt stand behind it!!
Also, i had a colt officers model 1911 years ago that was a jam-o-matic.....hated that sucker....but i know that was colts fault.

The thing about sigs are that they are hard to beat "out of the box" anyway...

I don't know.....

mike

[Shooter45]

If you are considering buying a Springfield 1911, check out the "loaded" model. It comes with all the bells and whistles you would probably add later.

Pick up a couple of Wilson Combat mags. They are much better than the mags that come with the pistol.

If you plan on shooting IPSC,IDPA, or just target shooting, you'll have what you need. An accurate, reliable 1911.

Is it true...that Glock slides are made from sollidified quail droppings???

Get a real pistol...the model 1911 is the real thing...no sheet.

Gunguy

[Hydra Shok]

Watch it Glocknut, you are stirring up a hornets nest here .

[inplanotx]

SPROING!

[armedandsafe]

I heard they stopped using quail and went to peacock.

(mumble, mumble, stir, stir)

[glocknut]

Originally posted by Gunguy
Is it true...that Glock slides are made from sollidified quail droppings???

Get a real pistol...the model 1911 is the real thing...no sheet.

Gunguy

Well thanks Gunguy.....I was looking for an excuse to go back to Glock and get a 21c "45 w/comp".....

I used to own a plain Glock 21...it was a great shooter, totally reliable...why i sold the thing I'm still trying to figure out?

Now i know why once you "go Glock" you never go back to anything else....because to many people give you crap about it...

Being a Glock fan is like being in the south, standing up on the barroom table and shouting "Hey y'all, I'm a damd Yankee, whata y'all think of that?"

mike

sheeesh!!

[glocknut]

I mean, here i am thinking strongly about getting a 1911 and i get that kind of .... whatever you call it...about glock...

It makes me feel like if i did buy a springfield 1911 that i would be giving some people the last laugh.....and i don't like giving up the last laugh at all......

cripes..

mike

PS...thanks shooter45, your advice was what i was looking for..

Ise sorry, didn't mean to be taken serious about the 1911 fued and the Glocks.

The truth be known the Glocks are a well engineered piece of proven equipment.

Some of us treditionalist just a bit sarcastic about plastic on anything except grips.

Plus, old timers love the grace and beauty of blued steel or nickle finish on the Colts and S&W products.

Except S&W is really stepping over the line with its venture in plastic and those ultra lite metals. Some of those pistols and revolvers are so danged lite when you pull the trigger you'd better be hanging on for dear life...can someone say RECOIL.

Please know I'm just joshing about the Glock situation.

Jim aka Gunguy

[Hydra Shok]

Glocknut, the last big Glock fan we had couldn't take the ribbing and has left the forum. Actually I do like the G36, big bore, small size, light weight. So don't get your feathers all ruffled if someone takes a poke at ya, just poke back .

[gpostal]

Glocknut ,don’t take it personal ,we all here know what a fine gun a glock is ,and it’s downfalls ,most glock shooters knows this also ,but live in denial

Around here asking such a question is like driving to mopar Sunday with a chevy

Glocks are great shooters ,I personally don’t care for internal hammer guns period. , and their safety issue ,some feel comfortable with it some don’t , most here don't ,but yet feel comfotable carrying a 1911 cocked and locked ,but again i don't
,some sort of denial also




Now your question was , Can a 1911 design last as long as a Sig P220?

If you go to kimbers website ,they claim that their frames will shoot 20,000 rounds with no measurable wear

Wilson has had 30,000 rounds with the same results

i have read articals of 100,000 rounds ,through some 1911's , of course a part or two changed

A 1911 is the indy race car of guns ,while everyone can drive a car ,not everyone can drive a racecar



Now back to picking on your glock

Can a 1911 design last as long as a glock in a 800 degree oven?

This is a true test in some states ,under a pot metal manufacturing law ,but is not enforced due to the glock





but anyway .WELCOME TO THE FORUM ,pull a chair up ,you can even bring your glock

[inplanotx]

Being a Glock fan is like being in the south, standing up on the barroom table and shouting "Hey y'all, I'm a damd Yankee, whata y'all think of that?"

Mike, this is all in jest. Please do not be offended. It is just our way of having fun.

It makes me feel like if i did buy a springfield 1911 that i would be giving some people the last laugh.....and i don't like giving up the last laugh at all......

I bought a Glock, ONCE!

Sold it a week later for a Springfield!

Just can't stand the SPROING when you pull the trigger! Also, like lookin down the deck of an aircraft carrier!

[45Smashemflat]

Not sure how we went from SIG/1911 comparo to Glock bashing....

Here's my .02 - the SIG - and I had a 220 German Mfg for years - was a great pistol - shoulda never sold it. Feenominal out of the box accuracy. Put several 1,000 rnds through it without a bobble.

I also own a few 1911's - I guess the key is who made it. AMT - icchy, wouldn't have another. Colt Delta -pretty cool 10mm. 2 Kimbers that just won't quit.

Excluding the trigger mechanisms, the SIG has fewer parts affected the recoil - no links, bushings, etc. But - the parts are set up to wear. (ie, can't replace a worn barrel bushing on a SIG, if the link wears on a 1911, you get new link, not a new gun.) Hard to say without a side by side "run to fail" test - but I think a 1911 will outlast - assuming you start with a 1991 of similar quality to the SIG out of the box. Depends on the final use - Truthfully, unless you are looking at competition, I'm not sure you couldwear out either of them as a standard defensive arm using regular maintenance procedures.

With all that said - I started with 1911's, went to the SIG, never could master the DA/SA trigger to be effective, came back to the 1911. Never could do the Glock thing, too much like a DAO trigger pull. Its a personal preference thing, you'll never hear me say a Glock is crap - ugly? certainly, but not crap.

[delta13soultaker]

Hey Glocknut,

I noticed on your mention of Charles Daly you said "Charles Daly....bad?". Was curious some why there would be any question about that brand of 1911.

Honestly haven't heard anything negative about them myself and would like to know what problems have occurred with them.

I've had mine for almost two years now. Usually fire about 200 or so rounds through it per range outing. The sights aren't the type anyone would use for real target shooting, but it's perfectly accurate enough for CQB or any engagement out to about 40 feet in the open. Trigger pull is smooth, beavertail safety and grips mold right into my hand, and the extended safety lever is placed just right on both sides of the reciever where I like it so I can catch it with either hand. It's a bit heavy, but if we go downtown after dark its holstered inside my wasteband without complaint.

The only thing I modified on the weapon was a little filing to help a picky Mecgar mag feed smoothly. At the uppermost front of the magazine well where the barrel/chamber rests, I filed away between 1/16 and 1/8 of metal at a shallow angle, allowing cartridges to run straight into the chamber without bumping that sharp angle. It was an easy fix that anybody could polish off with a Dremmel tool in the time it takes to smoke a Marlboro.

I fired that 1911 sitting, standing, kneeling, prone, uppside down, from supine, fetal position on both sides, strong hand, weak hand in Arkansas snow and Texas dust. Never had a malfunction that didn't result from a dead primer or busted mag.

My wife gave it to me as a belated birthday gift when I returned from Operation Enduring Freedom and it's been my #1 home defense piece since I first fired it. I keep it loaded with 8 rd Mecgars filled with good ol' Winchester FMJ, right next to her Taurus 85 with them pretty little silver Federal .38's.(Still don't know why she insists on a snubby revolver.)

I liked the Charles Daly enough to sell my CZ-75(bring-back from Germany) and never missed the 15 rounder. Well, not to mention I seen 9mm FMJ on living targets and wasn't much impressed, so that's the end of my niner days.


.45 all day every day.

[Shooter45]

Nothing wrong with Charles Daly 1911's. I have owned a few and with a little tweeking they are reliable,accurate pistols.

The mags are total crap. Switch to Wilson Combat or Metalform mags and most feeding problems are over.

[delta13soultaker]

I've never heard one bad thing about Wilson products. I'll eventually break down and by a pair or three.

Normally I keep a few range mags around to beat up and kick around, then I keep the pick of the litter loaded and seperate, alternating dry ones occasionally to prevent the springs from setting. Or at least extend their lifespan.

Thanks for the advice.

[glocknut]

Delta13soultaker...

Thats the reason i put a "?" behind the word bad....

I have no experience with that brand.....i was just going off of what quite a few people have told me....which kinda ties into why it bothers me when people talk down glock.....alot of the talk just ain't true.....

To tell you the truth, the only, and i mean "THE ONLY" firearm that i never could get to jam was my maadi ak-47. Period.

Using UMC ammo, wal mart crap, i can get anything to stovepipe jam....

mike

[Hydra Shok]

In my own personal opinion, if I understood the original question correctly, if you are gonna shoot ALOT , the 1911 would be the way to go. Like it was stated earlier if a part wears out or breaks you just simply replace it and carry on. If you aren't going to shoot 20,000 plus rounds thru it, and use it for daily carry, and don't put it in 800 degree ovens, the Glock is as good as it gets. I traded my Kimber because it was a target gun, and I already had a 1911, and I wanted something that was easier to carry and conceal. So I traded my $200 Kimber for a Taurus Millennium PT 111 in 9mm for me and a Kel-Tec P-32 for the wife. My Firestorm sits on the table by the bed, and the Millennium goes with me. The Millennium is not a target pistol so it doesn't shoot 2" groups like the Kimber did, and it is DAO. It's a heavy DAO but it's a defensive weapon, not a target/defensive pistol like the Kimber. Will the Millennium stay together after 20,000 + rounds? Damifino, but I won't be shooting it that much either. So again in my own humble opinion, if you're gonna shoot a bunch get a Kimber or similar 1911. If you're gonna carry concealed and for defensive purposes, get something small and light ( read Glock, Millennium series, Kahr, Kel-Tec ).

[delta13soultaker]

Thanks Glock,

Was curious to hear what you might of heard. It's been my experience that preventive maintenance costs a fraction of any other maintenance. I try to stay ahead if I can.

Glocks are without a doubt built to last. I used to be very oppossed to any polymer or plastic on a firearm until I entered the military and realized pretty quick that every weapon we used had some type of polymer. The only exceptions to this day I know of is our M14's we recieved last summer for sharpshooters/counter-snipers and of course the M9 which is basically an aluminum pistol with hard plastic grips.

I got off on a bad start with Glocks. When I was a teen, our community shooting range was also where most of the local police came to practice and fire reloading drills and such. It was back when the entire American police force went wild over 9mm, 17 rd mags, and lightweight polymer duty guns, which all spells Glock.
Well, I was on that range one day when a cop fired a set and shoved his Glock into a holster without pulling his finger free of the guard, which killed an innocent patch of grass. I decided right then that the Glock was not dummy proof enough for me. I'm all for a manual safety on a reciever. And yeah, I know that no safety in the world can replace proper training.

On weapon jams, I gotta say the great equalizer is sand. I never seen any weapon system of any style that can stay up 100% in an enduring sand storm. Not even a $125,000 chain gun. But that's just one of them nightmares things to avoid anyways.

Here ya go Glocknut...enjoy.

Gunguy

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[glocknut]

Gunguy...

I am scared to death of doing any work on my firearms. Small springs can travel a long way!!

mike

[gpostal]

I am scared to death of doing any work on my firearms. Small springs can travel a long way!!

lol ,i think most have been there done that

a 18# recoil spring in a 1911 can shoot pretty dang far if it slips away from ya