Flintlock Pistol

[Dash]

Hi,
Thank you for your time and kind assistance on this matter. I purchased this item in an Antique Store FL USA sometime ago. It's a beautiful pistol and does have that spanish look about it. Would it be possible if you can give me some idea where this originally came from.
I attached the files for you to view.
Thanks again for your time.
Dash

[BETH]

cool looking, welcome to the forum i am sure someone will be along to help u

[Dash]

Thank You Beth.

[rhmc24]

You have a piece of handicraft probably of mid-East origin, made for decoration and never an actual firearm. The trigger guard does appear to be an original gun part. Your photo omits the major source of information, that of the lock (firing) mechanism. From what I can see of it, only confirms the above.

[Dash]

Thank you for your input, could you let me know regarding the lock mechanism, does it not show. Or perhaps its missing, could you put a value on this. Thanks very much for your information and time. regards

[Dash]

Mid east I thought it looked more Spanish to me?

[dcriner]

Yes, probably a decorative item. Several screws have been recently replaced, a couple not seated - probably the wrong thread? The priming pan seems to be missing.

Here is a theory. An old gun was inlayed, etc., by someone who was a craftsman, but didn't know much about guns. Don't even think about firing it! Nice wall hanger.

[Dash]

Thanks for info and your time, can you put a value on this 17th century Spanish Flintlock

[dcriner]

Originally Posted by Dash

Thanks for info and your time, can you put a value on this 17th century Spanish Flintlock

No, because there is no evidence that it is a 17th Century gun, for reasons previously posted. What did you pay for it? You probably have been had.

[Dash]

I just found one like mine, they come in a pair, has the same mother of pearl design and silver inlay. I paid $500 for mine, but thanks for your input

[soundguy]

OUCH!

post a close up, in focus pic of the r-side of the gun.. make the frizzen the center of the pic.

a pic with the frizzen open will help too, to expose what would be the pan. a top shot of that would help too

refer here for nomenclature..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fl...kMechanism.jpg

[Dash]

Hello Soundguy thanks for info, have uploaded emails as requested. Thanks

[rhmc24]

Pictures are good. None of the parts are original nor authentic copies of old flintlock gun parts.

Value as a collector gun is such that no knowledgeable gun collector would own it. As a wall decorator it's like beauty - 'in the eye of the beholder' - $50 - $150 ?

Reminds me of the saying "nothing is worthless - it can always serve as an example".

[soundguy]

hmm.. I see no pics with the frizzen open.. and I see a 'weld' under what would be the pan, the frizzen sets on. with the flatness involved there.. and the thin cross section of the steele ( frizzen).. and the look of the nub on the frizen, that does not ontact that spring under it. I'd have to conclude it is a replica / artwork/ not a firearm...
the jaw is also set up wrong / missing pieces as it would not pinch a flint as is.. ie.. under the jaw screw would be another flatish plate to hold a flint back by leather usually.. and that would have to be able to contact the frizen as it travels in an arc downward, forcing the frizzen open, exposing the pan and powder primer charge, as the flint is forcingthe frizzen open and moving down it throws sparks into the pan to make a flash.... as it looks, if the hammer did move.. the flint would not be striking the frizzen in the correct place. and the frizzen itself looks very, very thin.. yet has no scrape markings on it that would be evident with even a few fireings.

the lower spring unde rthe frizen could be correct if longer.. but that may be an age thing.

deffinately some oddities. couldn't say more without either super detail pics, including muzzle, bore, pan, flash hole... etc.. or in person. so far I'm betting 97% on decorative wall piece to perhaps go behind glass or in a disply box to show off that inlaid wood.. maybee with some wax or nice furniture polish on it to makeit shine.

[Dash]

Hi RHMC24,
Thanks again for your time, I have taken some pictures on the right side of the mechanism. Thanks all, at least I know, you're right, beauty is in within the eye of the beholder

[RJay]

Sigh, Zoom it up to 400, you can see all the grinding marks from a modern grinder and I'm loathe to say this, but it seems that wood grain can be seen through the inlay, as if the silver inlay isn't inlay, don't know about the inlay but as posted that lock and frizzen is so wrong in every way.

[deadin]

Here's an Arabic knife I picked up in Morocco years ago. I kind of looks like it would go along with your flintlock...

[Hawg]

It might bring 50.00 as a decorator. That lock is an utter fake, It was never intended to be a working lock.

[dcriner]

Originally Posted by soundguy

hmm.. I see no pics with the frizzen open..

I don't think the frizzen even moves.

[dcriner]

Originally Posted by Hawg

It might bring 50.00 as a decorator. That lock is an utter fake,

The close-ups show that even the inlays are sloppily done. And the white design do-dads on the lock and barrel look almost childish. If this was represented by the seller as an authentic 17th century pistol, you should demand your $500 back. You've been ripped off.

[Hammerslagger]

Let me begin by saying that all of us, that are born "normal", come into this world knowing how to perform just two conscious actions. They are to nurse and to complain (cry). Every other conscious thing, we have to learn. If one is going acquire antique arms, one would be wise to learn a little about them, from both the Internet and Antique arms shows, before one "opens one's wallet" to acquire one.

If the crude example, that is the subject of this thread, was purchased in the USA; I would be demanding my money back and or talking with the prosecutor having jurisdiction over where it was bought. It has been my experience that the likelihood of a prosecutor getting involved is sometimes enough to get a scoundrel to refund money.

[soundguy]

Originally Posted by Hawg

It might bring 50.00 as a decorator. That lock is an utter fake, It was never intended to be a working lock.

yep, if you look under the 'pan', you see a weld.. then looking at the frizzen and pan.. you can tell they that are permanent family.. the frizen does not look like it could move even if it was correct dimension. and the hammer / jaw setup is the wrong size and missing parts for a frizzzen of that size.

[dcriner]

And, the hold-down screw for the flint has no threads - or has this already been mentioned?

Notice how each of the "mother of pearl" inlays are all the same size and shape? (Makes inlaying simpler, perhaps.) Compare to the presumably authentic Arabic knife posted by deadin above. There are so many clues that this is a complete fake, it's hard to list, much less remember, them all. A complete fraud, and not worthy of hanging on a wall, except as a joke. Worthless.

One other clue - an authentic 17th century pistol resembling this would be worth much, much more than a measly $500.

[Jim K]

Under the pan itself in the fourth picture, there is a circular depression made by the ejector pin of an investiment casting mold. Then the "pan" was welded to the lockplate. There is no topjaw on the cock, and no threads on the jaw screw.

Is it a fake? In one sense, no. I don't think it was made to fool anyone; thousands of such guns are made as souvenirs, "collectors" pieces, and decorators, and sometimes sell legitimately for over $200.

The decoration is actually not bad, and I suspect Dash let that influence him and failed to give the gun close scrutiny. I hope he can obtain a refund, but most sellers of such items will not put any claims of antiquity or originality in writing.

Jim

[BullShoot]

What? Did anyone comment on the highly innovative spring? Reminds me a bit of the "bridge to nowhere."