Looking to buy body armor / vest--any ideas where? - The Firearms Forum

graehaven · 02-15-2009, 04:58 PM

I'm looking to outfit myself with some serious defensive capability. Any recommendations on where I can get some of this stuff? I mean, sure, I can google anything, but, I thought I'd ask for your guys' opinions too. Thanks.

This is not because I want to do anything illegal, rather, because I truly believe we are headed for SHTF scenario......with every passing day.

Shellback · 02-15-2009, 05:09 PM

I belive you are right, it is part of being prepared. I will keep this thread in my sights I to have the need to know.
Tim

CampingJosh · 02-15-2009, 05:10 PM

Here's one I remembered catching in the Buy/Sell/Trade forum. I don't know anything about it that you can't read right there.

http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=51148

graehaven · 02-15-2009, 05:18 PM

Well, I know I need at least a Level IIIA with front and back trauma plates in order to stop rifle fire. So that's what I'm looking for.

So far, I've found on here:

http://www.interamer.com/bvests1.htm

The one at the bottom, the A9 is the level desired.

But, any other input on this topic would be great!

delta13soultaker · 02-15-2009, 07:47 PM

I was going to ask how much protection you desire but you said IIIA.

Gonna say what I know...not trying to insult intelligence.

First...III/IV plates that stop 7.62mm are not "trauma plates"...those are cute little alloy plates in police vests. (I wore those as a personnel security detail; big difference. Police concealed vest [II] are like a T-shirt compared to level III/IV.) A plate is an 11 lb/5 kg ceramic plate called a SAPI. You may brush by with about $300 per plate, but the real deal is closer to $400 each.

My experience with III/IV armor is mostly Point Blank. We started using it in 2000. That's who I'd recommend. (Keep in mind they did have a recall this year on several thousand products, but as far as I've ever seen their kit is the best of the heavy duty. The recall really speaks more for the QA/QC monitoring this kit than it does speak negative against Point Blank. They've provided the US military with millions of quality pieces of kit.)

A Point Blank III system is going to put you back about $1,600.

Yes there are cheaper and there are imitators. But there is a reason Point Blank is the most common personal armor in the US Army and those others are not.

Be extremely wary of buying used body armor. You can pay $800 for a heavy vest that fails or $1,600 for a heavy vest that works.

Some advice I'll share from the past decade+ using heavy body armor:

Body armor is it's own kind of suck; When I'm retired from the Army I will never touch the crap again.

Body armor adds 10 degrees to the temperature. No cool-guy super product resolves that either. You have to double your water intake in hot months. In one night, on several occasions, we lost more men to heat exhaustion than wounds...these were highly professional seasoned Soldiers who maintained a high level of hydration too.

Body armor is performance perishable. If you don't store it, it wears out.

Body armor isn't "bulletproof" and doesn't make you invincible. Every mate I lost KIA was wearing body armor. It does save lives, but with immediate level 1 care and a fast trip to professional trauma medicine. I only saw body armor save a life by itself a couple times...ballistic helmets probably do more life saving than vests.

Body armor restricts your movement. Going 1 or 2 sizes smaller on your SAPI plates is a good compromise.

Body armor is hell on your rifle accuracy. A good habit before going to shoot prone is to lift up hard on the bottom-front of your vest, which lowers the rear SAPI some to prevent it hitting the back of your head/neck/flipping your lid. Another trick that's different for every individual...let one side all the way loose and tighten the other all the way...this lets you use the pocket of your shoulder better...you'll have to play with it, as everyone is different. Some tighten the shooting side, others the weak side etc.

You must be physically conditioned better than an athlete to fight with 30 lbs of armor plus your weapon, kit, ammo, and water. You hit 60 lbs, 80 lbs, 100 lbs of gear quicker than you think. Weight is your most relentless and merciless enemy.

Last but not least, a sincere caution...We run several miles in our body armor frequently to condition for it, in addition to daily running. In a civilian SHTF, if you have to move out and aren't used to the vest you'll end up throwing it away...it sucks that bad.

noslolo · 02-16-2009, 01:50 AM

Great post Delta.

graehaven · 02-16-2009, 07:15 AM

Thanks Delta, that's exactly what I was looking for, info from someone with first hand experience.

I had no idea that the stuff was so expensive. I may have to rethink my "need."

Just trying to prepare for all eventualities, and I'm finding it, near impossible. Discouraging to say the least.

I don't want to turn my home into a bunker, and I'm not sure even how to, if I had to. Sand bags and steep plate do NOT go with the wife's decor.

The body armor search is just another part of it all. Perhaps having materials on hand to protect the house on the whole is a better use of said $1600. Although, I don't even know what that would get me.

delta13soultaker · 02-16-2009, 10:23 AM

No problem bro.

You could compromise for IIIA without rifle plates for way less. (Always remember trauma plates just absorb energy, not stop bullets. Rifle plates...SAPI...stops rifle bullets.) That would protect you from handgun/shotgun threats, and frag, for 1/3 the weight of III/IV protection and half the $$$. Also...at 1/3 weight you'd be more likely to keep it on.

A legit dealer of the real deal like US Cav is going to require a military/police ID and unit letterhead to ship to you, otherwise I'd recommend a couple places. I think it's a liability thing. Be wary otherwise on the internet. I do believe though that you can walk into a dealer and order if armor isn't locally restricted...you know how every city/state laws differ.

I stand by my opinion that Point Blank is the way to go. Some LE might be able to better advise for concealment armor, but that's down in the Level II area.

graehaven · 02-16-2009, 01:38 PM

Yeah, this is NY, I don't even know if it's restricted here or not. With my luck, they don't allow civilians to have it here. That way we make easy targets when they come to wipe us out. Nice.

delta13soultaker · 02-16-2009, 06:06 PM

I hear you.

I ought to be more clear about the legal part. Odds are it is okay to own. But it may be restricted to who can buy. Make sense?

Not trying to open a can of worms...I know it differs city by city; town by town; county by county, but in places I've lived...Kind of like switchblades...you can own it in your home, but cannot carry it around or buy it without military/police ID. At the sporting goods stores you hand over your military ID just to touch one to check it out. BUT...at a gunshow nobody asks for ID......

My point is you should check around; It is most likely doable.

Charlie the sniper · 02-17-2009, 11:45 AM

This is a UK company, but they ship worldwide.
http://www.rusmilitary.com/html/bulletproof_vests.htm

vytoland · 02-17-2009, 12:30 PM

dont forget to get something to protect from those head shots

new308handloader · 02-17-2009, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shellback

I belive you are right, it is part of being prepared. I will keep this thread in my sights I to have the need to know.
Tim

+1

SARG · 02-17-2009, 12:50 PM

Ebay availability ........... ticks me off that they are ........ but there's no shortage.

02-15-2009, 04:58 PM	#1
graehaven Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 2,853	Looking to buy body armor / vest--any ideas where? I'm looking to outfit myself with some serious defensive capability. Any recommendations on where I can get some of this stuff? I mean, sure, I can google anything, but, I thought I'd ask for your guys' opinions too. Thanks. This is not because I want to do anything illegal, rather, because I truly believe we are headed for SHTF scenario......with every passing day. __________________ The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." - Thomas Jefferson RESISTANCE IS FEUDAL... PREPARE TO SERVE. -->

02-15-2009, 05:09 PM	#2
Shellback Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Broken Arrow Ok Posts: 950	Re: Looking to buy body armor / vest--any ideas where? I belive you are right, it is part of being prepared. I will keep this thread in my sights I to have the need to know. Tim __________________ The Plumber Protects The Health of the Nation New World Order never, Sovreignty Forever

02-15-2009, 05:10 PM	#3
CampingJosh TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 4,799	Re: Looking to buy body armor / vest--any ideas where? Here's one I remembered catching in the Buy/Sell/Trade forum. I don't know anything about it that you can't read right there. http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=51148 __________________ Nothing posted on TheFirearmsForum.com constitutes legal, accounting, gunsmithing, or other professional advice. Readers are encouraged to consult with qualified professionals for real advice. Your life is lived at your own risk. Don't blame me for the dumb things you do.

02-15-2009, 05:18 PM	#4
graehaven Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 2,853	Re: Looking to buy body armor / vest--any ideas where? Well, I know I need at least a Level IIIA with front and back trauma plates in order to stop rifle fire. So that's what I'm looking for. So far, I've found on here: http://www.interamer.com/bvests1.htm The one at the bottom, the A9 is the level desired. But, any other input on this topic would be great! __________________ The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." - Thomas Jefferson RESISTANCE IS FEUDAL... PREPARE TO SERVE.

02-15-2009, 07:47 PM	#5
delta13soultaker Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Depends on Uncle Sam's whim every 3 yrs. Posts: 2,948	Re: Looking to buy body armor / vest--any ideas where? I was going to ask how much protection you desire but you said IIIA. Gonna say what I know...not trying to insult intelligence. First...III/IV plates that stop 7.62mm are not "trauma plates"...those are cute little alloy plates in police vests. (I wore those as a personnel security detail; big difference. Police concealed vest [II] are like a T-shirt compared to level III/IV.) A plate is an 11 lb/5 kg ceramic plate called a SAPI. You may brush by with about $300 per plate, but the real deal is closer to $400 each. My experience with III/IV armor is mostly Point Blank. We started using it in 2000. That's who I'd recommend. (Keep in mind they did have a recall this year on several thousand products, but as far as I've ever seen their kit is the best of the heavy duty. The recall really speaks more for the QA/QC monitoring this kit than it does speak negative against Point Blank. They've provided the US military with millions of quality pieces of kit.) A Point Blank III system is going to put you back about $1,600. Yes there are cheaper and there are imitators. But there is a reason Point Blank is the most common personal armor in the US Army and those others are not. Be extremely wary of buying used body armor. You can pay $800 for a heavy vest that fails or $1,600 for a heavy vest that works. Some advice I'll share from the past decade+ using heavy body armor: Body armor is it's own kind of suck; When I'm retired from the Army I will never touch the crap again. Body armor adds 10 degrees to the temperature. No cool-guy super product resolves that either. You have to double your water intake in hot months. In one night, on several occasions, we lost more men to heat exhaustion than wounds...these were highly professional seasoned Soldiers who maintained a high level of hydration too. Body armor is performance perishable. If you don't store it, it wears out. Body armor isn't "bulletproof" and doesn't make you invincible. Every mate I lost KIA was wearing body armor. It does save lives, but with immediate level 1 care and a fast trip to professional trauma medicine. I only saw body armor save a life by itself a couple times...ballistic helmets probably do more life saving than vests. Body armor restricts your movement. Going 1 or 2 sizes smaller on your SAPI plates is a good compromise. Body armor is hell on your rifle accuracy. A good habit before going to shoot prone is to lift up hard on the bottom-front of your vest, which lowers the rear SAPI some to prevent it hitting the back of your head/neck/flipping your lid. Another trick that's different for every individual...let one side all the way loose and tighten the other all the way...this lets you use the pocket of your shoulder better...you'll have to play with it, as everyone is different. Some tighten the shooting side, others the weak side etc. You must be physically conditioned better than an athlete to fight with 30 lbs of armor plus your weapon, kit, ammo, and water. You hit 60 lbs, 80 lbs, 100 lbs of gear quicker than you think. Weight is your most relentless and merciless enemy. Last but not least, a sincere caution...We run several miles in our body armor frequently to condition for it, in addition to daily running. In a civilian SHTF, if you have to move out and aren't used to the vest you'll end up throwing it away...it sucks that bad. __________________ Never say die! "A nation who forgets its defenders is soon forgotten itself." "A good shot must necessarily be a good man since the essence of good marksmanship is self-control and self-control is the essential quality of a good man." – Theodore Roosevelt Last edited by delta13soultaker; 02-15-2009 at 07:53 PM.. Reason: typo

02-16-2009, 01:50 AM	#6
noslolo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Johnstown PA Posts: 1,559	Re: Looking to buy body armor / vest--any ideas where? Great post Delta. __________________ I'm a heck of a "obesito illegitimo"

02-16-2009, 07:15 AM	#7
graehaven Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 2,853	Re: Looking to buy body armor / vest--any ideas where? Thanks Delta, that's exactly what I was looking for, info from someone with first hand experience. I had no idea that the stuff was so expensive. I may have to rethink my "need." Just trying to prepare for all eventualities, and I'm finding it, near impossible. Discouraging to say the least. I don't want to turn my home into a bunker, and I'm not sure even how to, if I had to. Sand bags and steep plate do NOT go with the wife's decor. The body armor search is just another part of it all. Perhaps having materials on hand to protect the house on the whole is a better use of said $1600. Although, I don't even know what that would get me. __________________ The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." - Thomas Jefferson RESISTANCE IS FEUDAL... PREPARE TO SERVE.

02-16-2009, 10:23 AM	#8
delta13soultaker Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Depends on Uncle Sam's whim every 3 yrs. Posts: 2,948	Re: Looking to buy body armor / vest--any ideas where? No problem bro. You could compromise for IIIA without rifle plates for way less. (Always remember trauma plates just absorb energy, not stop bullets. Rifle plates...SAPI...stops rifle bullets.) That would protect you from handgun/shotgun threats, and frag, for 1/3 the weight of III/IV protection and half the $$$. Also...at 1/3 weight you'd be more likely to keep it on. A legit dealer of the real deal like US Cav is going to require a military/police ID and unit letterhead to ship to you, otherwise I'd recommend a couple places. I think it's a liability thing. Be wary otherwise on the internet. I do believe though that you can walk into a dealer and order if armor isn't locally restricted...you know how every city/state laws differ. I stand by my opinion that Point Blank is the way to go. Some LE might be able to better advise for concealment armor, but that's down in the Level II area. __________________ Never say die! "A nation who forgets its defenders is soon forgotten itself." "A good shot must necessarily be a good man since the essence of good marksmanship is self-control and self-control is the essential quality of a good man." – Theodore Roosevelt

02-16-2009, 01:38 PM	#9
graehaven Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 2,853	Re: Looking to buy body armor / vest--any ideas where? Yeah, this is NY, I don't even know if it's restricted here or not. With my luck, they don't allow civilians to have it here. That way we make easy targets when they come to wipe us out. Nice. __________________ The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." - Thomas Jefferson RESISTANCE IS FEUDAL... PREPARE TO SERVE.

02-16-2009, 06:06 PM	#10
delta13soultaker Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Depends on Uncle Sam's whim every 3 yrs. Posts: 2,948	Re: Looking to buy body armor / vest--any ideas where? I hear you. I ought to be more clear about the legal part. Odds are it is okay to own. But it may be restricted to who can buy. Make sense? Not trying to open a can of worms...I know it differs city by city; town by town; county by county, but in places I've lived...Kind of like switchblades...you can own it in your home, but cannot carry it around or buy it without military/police ID. At the sporting goods stores you hand over your military ID just to touch one to check it out. BUT...at a gunshow nobody asks for ID...... My point is you should check around; It is most likely doable. __________________ Never say die! "A nation who forgets its defenders is soon forgotten itself." "A good shot must necessarily be a good man since the essence of good marksmanship is self-control and self-control is the essential quality of a good man." – Theodore Roosevelt

02-17-2009, 11:45 AM	#11
Charlie the sniper Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: England, thats the USN aircraft carrier near europe. Posts: 751	Re: Looking to buy body armor / vest--any ideas where? This is a UK company, but they ship worldwide. http://www.rusmilitary.com/html/bulletproof_vests.htm __________________ Never Forget, the price paid for Freedom.

02-17-2009, 12:50 PM	#14
SARG V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Northeast Posts: 307	Re: Looking to buy body armor / vest--any ideas where? Ebay availability ........... ticks me off that they are ........ but there's no shortage.