Question on 9mm load - The Firearms Forum

RodneyJ · 04-24-2009, 10:04 PM

I have been reloading for a couple years but this is my first go at pistol ammo. the problem I'm having is it looks like the bullet is expanding the cases. On every bullet that i have seated you can see a ring on the case were the base of the bullet has stopped. I am using .355 dia 125gr Sierra JHP bullets. I had the seating die set so that it would not apply a crimp. not sure were I'm going worng thank for any help are advise yall can give. sorry I can not add a picture as my camera has died.

RodneyJ

gunmanguns · 04-24-2009, 10:18 PM

thats whats happening to me too you just explained it better

muddober · 04-24-2009, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RodneyJ

I have been reloading for a couple years but this is my first go at pistol ammo. the problem I'm having is it looks like the bullet is expanding the cases. On every bullet that i have seated you can see a ring on the case were the base of the bullet has stopped. I am using .355 dia 125gr Sierra JHP bullets. I had the seating die set so that it would not apply a crimp. not sure were I'm going worng thank for any help are advise yall can give. sorry I can not add a picture as my camera has died.

RodneyJ

No biggie at all. What is happening is that the sizer die sometimes takes the case slightly under size and then your new bullet is bringing it back only to the depth it is inserted into the case. I would guess that if you measured the difference it would only be a couple of thousands if that. It is amazing what little or slight measurement you can see with your eye when circumstances like the mirror or shine of the case is just right to reveal it.

Ron

RodneyJ · 04-24-2009, 11:33 PM

Muddober
You are correct there is only a couple of thousands differance it just did not look wright to me. so thought I should check with people that have more knowledge on this than I do. I have cycled the rounds through my pistol and they seem to be fine hope to get to the range and check them out next week.

Thanks
RodneyJ

cycloneman · 04-24-2009, 11:56 PM

I have seen this too. A factory crimp die will size the round so it will make sure the round will feed. Go to Lee's site and read about it. I do this now w/ my 10mm. It works. Gets that buldge out.

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/cata...ies-crimp.html

Go down the page to the pistol dies.

LDBennett · 04-25-2009, 07:45 AM

RodneyJ:

The case is sized by the die to be under size for the bullet. This gives maximum case tension to hold the bullet into the case. This is the current technique for getting good case retention of the bullet to assure more uniform powder burning. Indeed you may be able to see the base of the bullet through the case in correctly loaded ammo. But if you did what you stated for seating the bullet you might want to rethink it.

Common die sets for rimmed cartridges come with a seating die that crimps the case into the bullet for what is termed a roll crimp. For almost any cartridge that has to live in the gun during recoil or live in a cartridge tube end to end like in a lever gun, crimping the case into the bullet is necessary. The roll crimp that comes with the die set is perfectly adequate IF you set it up correctly: too little crimp and it does no good; too much crimp and it collapse the rest of the case and deforms the bullet or makes the roll so large in diameter that the cartridge will not fit into the chamber.

As an alternative the Lee Factory Crimp Die use a collet system that pushes the case horizontally into the case in about four spots, not rolling the brass at all. It is a more uniform crimp that is easier to get right. But the roll crimp if done correctly is more than adequate.

As for the bullet showing its position in the case, that actually is a new reloading concept. When I reloaded 38 SPl and 357 Mag back in the early 1960's you could spin the bullet in the finished case if the roll crimp was done lightly. At some point in time since then, the die makers went to the tighter fit of the bullet to the case.

LDBenentt

muddober · 04-25-2009, 10:51 AM

RodneyJ: After reading LD's post it occurred to me that I failed to mention that your crimp die should NOT roll crimp your 9MM case at all but rather just tapper crimp which you probably shouldn't or can't even see, meaning most likely you are already properly crimping the case. The 9MM head spaces off the mouth of the case and if rolled crimp it would allow the cartridge to go too deep in the chamber and not fire. Roll crimping is the only way to go on rimmed cases but not your rimless 9MM.

RodneyJ · 04-25-2009, 02:31 PM

I guess I should have been more detailed in my reason for setting the seting die so that it would not crimp I do have the lee factory crimp die and I was crimping in a different step.I had made the statment about not haveing my seating die set to crimp so that a case bulge do to an inproperly set up die could be ruled out. When setting up the Lee factory crim die I tried to set it so that it only lightly crimped as my reloading manual says to use a light crimp to no crimp due to the case head spacing off the mouth of the case.

Thanks
RodneyJ

gunmanguns · 04-25-2009, 06:15 PM

ok i shot some and everything went well they where even accurate.i think i may get the lee crimp die though the wavy case bothers me.

muddober · 04-25-2009, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunmanguns

ok i shot some and everything went well they where even accurate.i think i may get the lee crimp die though the wavy case bothers me.

Get over it as it will not hurt a thing and if it is all working what will a new crimp die do for you? It is not the crimp die that is making the case "wavy" unless you are "over" roll crimping a rimmed case (you have not said what caliber) but rather the sizing die undersizing the case as both LD and I explained, him being more detailed than me.

Ron

gunmanguns · 04-26-2009, 01:07 AM

ya Ron your right i didn't read the last couple of threads before i posted.it really does not matter as long as everything functions well.im talking about the same cal. 9mm on a loadmaster.i also checked the width and also found it almost unmeasurable.thanks guys for all the help.

o ya and after you shoot these bullets the brass expands back to normal.

04-24-2009, 10:04 PM	#1
RodneyJ V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Houston Texas Posts: 62	Question on 9mm load I have been reloading for a couple years but this is my first go at pistol ammo. the problem I'm having is it looks like the bullet is expanding the cases. On every bullet that i have seated you can see a ring on the case were the base of the bullet has stopped. I am using .355 dia 125gr Sierra JHP bullets. I had the seating die set so that it would not apply a crimp. not sure were I'm going worng thank for any help are advise yall can give. sorry I can not add a picture as my camera has died. RodneyJ --> Last edited by RodneyJ; 04-24-2009 at 10:07 PM..

04-24-2009, 10:18 PM	#2
gunmanguns Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 4	Re: Question on 9mm load thats whats happening to me too you just explained it better

04-24-2009, 11:33 PM	#4
RodneyJ V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Houston Texas Posts: 62	Re: Question on 9mm load Muddober You are correct there is only a couple of thousands differance it just did not look wright to me. so thought I should check with people that have more knowledge on this than I do. I have cycled the rounds through my pistol and they seem to be fine hope to get to the range and check them out next week. Thanks RodneyJ

04-24-2009, 11:56 PM	#5
cycloneman Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Louisiana Posts: 7,407	Re: Question on 9mm load I have seen this too. A factory crimp die will size the round so it will make sure the round will feed. Go to Lee's site and read about it. I do this now w/ my 10mm. It works. Gets that buldge out. http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/cata...ies-crimp.html Go down the page to the pistol dies. __________________ Who are you going to serve today?

04-25-2009, 07:45 AM	#6
LDBennett Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hesperia, CA Posts: 5,719	Re: Question on 9mm load RodneyJ: The case is sized by the die to be under size for the bullet. This gives maximum case tension to hold the bullet into the case. This is the current technique for getting good case retention of the bullet to assure more uniform powder burning. Indeed you may be able to see the base of the bullet through the case in correctly loaded ammo. But if you did what you stated for seating the bullet you might want to rethink it. Common die sets for rimmed cartridges come with a seating die that crimps the case into the bullet for what is termed a roll crimp. For almost any cartridge that has to live in the gun during recoil or live in a cartridge tube end to end like in a lever gun, crimping the case into the bullet is necessary. The roll crimp that comes with the die set is perfectly adequate IF you set it up correctly: too little crimp and it does no good; too much crimp and it collapse the rest of the case and deforms the bullet or makes the roll so large in diameter that the cartridge will not fit into the chamber. As an alternative the Lee Factory Crimp Die use a collet system that pushes the case horizontally into the case in about four spots, not rolling the brass at all. It is a more uniform crimp that is easier to get right. But the roll crimp if done correctly is more than adequate. As for the bullet showing its position in the case, that actually is a new reloading concept. When I reloaded 38 SPl and 357 Mag back in the early 1960's you could spin the bullet in the finished case if the roll crimp was done lightly. At some point in time since then, the die makers went to the tighter fit of the bullet to the case. LDBenentt

04-25-2009, 10:51 AM	#7
muddober Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,436	Re: Question on 9mm load RodneyJ: After reading LD's post it occurred to me that I failed to mention that your crimp die should NOT roll crimp your 9MM case at all but rather just tapper crimp which you probably shouldn't or can't even see, meaning most likely you are already properly crimping the case. The 9MM head spaces off the mouth of the case and if rolled crimp it would allow the cartridge to go too deep in the chamber and not fire. Roll crimping is the only way to go on rimmed cases but not your rimless 9MM. Last edited by muddober; 04-25-2009 at 10:52 AM..

04-25-2009, 02:31 PM	#8
RodneyJ V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Houston Texas Posts: 62	Re: Question on 9mm load I guess I should have been more detailed in my reason for setting the seting die so that it would not crimp I do have the lee factory crimp die and I was crimping in a different step.I had made the statment about not haveing my seating die set to crimp so that a case bulge do to an inproperly set up die could be ruled out. When setting up the Lee factory crim die I tried to set it so that it only lightly crimped as my reloading manual says to use a light crimp to no crimp due to the case head spacing off the mouth of the case. Thanks RodneyJ Last edited by RodneyJ; 04-25-2009 at 02:42 PM..

04-25-2009, 06:15 PM	#9
gunmanguns Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 4	Re: Question on 9mm load ok i shot some and everything went well they where even accurate.i think i may get the lee crimp die though the wavy case bothers me.

04-26-2009, 01:07 AM	#11
gunmanguns Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 4	Re: Question on 9mm load ya Ron your right i didn't read the last couple of threads before i posted.it really does not matter as long as everything functions well.im talking about the same cal. 9mm on a loadmaster.i also checked the width and also found it almost unmeasurable.thanks guys for all the help. o ya and after you shoot these bullets the brass expands back to normal.