1894 .45 colt Rifle Load? - The Firearms Forum

Kapeller77 · 10-14-2009, 04:11 PM

Does anyone have a good load or two for a 1894 16" barrel .45 colt using Blue Dot powder and 230 gr jhc? Actually any good hunting load recipes for that gun would be most appreciative! Thanks in advance!

Popgunner · 10-14-2009, 04:33 PM

Welcome to the forum Kapeller.

We usually suggest finding loads from your manuals or at the least check the online load info from the powder makers. Others recipies may not get along well with your particular gun safetywise.

Kapeller77 · 10-14-2009, 04:42 PM

hey Popgunner thx for the reply!
I understand the concerns in getting a recipe from the Internet, i have been going thru my manual i own on that caliber but there isn't a lot of rifle data. So i thought maybe someone else might have a safe recipe i could try out and work up to. You wouldn't happen to have any suggestions for a manual i could use would you?

woolleyworm · 10-14-2009, 07:44 PM

Hornady 7th has loads listed on pgs 911-913, but nothing for BlueDot, this is the same in several other manuals also. The loads listed are for Ruger/TC's with longer barrels. Most test barrels listed are from 7-10" in length. Hornady specifically states that these loads should be safe in the 1894 when loads are worked up properly.

Do you have any other powder options? This would be my .02.

Kapeller77 · 10-14-2009, 10:10 PM

Hey woolleyworm thx for the reply.

right now all i have is unique, bluedot, hs-6, and accurate no. 2.

right now the best load i have for it is a 230 gr rn with 12 grains of unique behind it.

JLA · 10-14-2009, 10:40 PM

thats a pretty stout load for the .45 colt. you oughtta be using around 9 gr. max for standard pressure data with that powder and bullet. Look for Lyman 49th, it has many many loads for the various level of .45 colt power. Be careful with hot .45 colt loads, they should only be shot in ruger/freedom arms revolvers or a TC contender, 12 gr. unique puts a 250 gr cast lead slug downrange at 1250 fps from a 5.5 inch ruger blackhawk. Thats .44 mag pressures. be careful...

Kapeller77 · 10-14-2009, 10:59 PM

hey thx jla,

oh and that was my bad on that load data, i put the wrong grains on there, the load that i use is 8.5 - 8.9 of unique i went back and looked it up im not sure where the 12 came from. Although when i first got into reloading i loaded the .45 colt with over 12 grains(not sure how much actually, i read the scale wrong) of unique it keyholed a lot and kicked pretty hard haha but the gun stayed strong. It's a pretty tough rifle.

Have you ever had a problem with lag time from the gun to target? I dunno if its the load or what but when i fire the rifle its pretty accurate but i can hear the bullet smack the target at 70 to 100 yards! Thats with the unique load above so im trying to find a something to give me more fps..

Alpo · 10-15-2009, 08:52 AM

JLA, you need to update your warning.

You said, "hot .45 colt loads, they should only be shot in ruger/freedom arms revolvers or a TC contender,"

But now Ruger is making the "New Blackhawk", which is smaller framed than the OM Blackhawk, the NM Blackhawk or the Vaquero, and shooting "Ruger Loads" in it can cause a KB. I wonder how the loading manuals are phrasing that now? They can't just say "for Rugers" now, because using those loads in a "New Blackhawk" is dangerous.

Alpo · 10-15-2009, 08:55 AM

Kapeller77, get a copy of Speer's manual. In their "Ruger/Contender" loads they have Blue Dot data. At least, they do in Speer #12. I'm not going to give it to you, since it also says, at the top of the page, "Use in these guns only". If you want to use it, in your rifle, that's fine. But get the data out of the book.

Kapeller77 · 10-15-2009, 09:25 AM

Thx for the reply Alpo,

I will definitely check into that manual, what I'm looking for is rifle data though something for a 16" 1894. my manual has bluedot loads in it for ruger which i have tried and did not blow up my gun..

JLA · 10-16-2009, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kapeller77

hey thx jla,

oh and that was my bad on that load data, i put the wrong grains on there, the load that i use is 8.5 - 8.9 of unique i went back and looked it up im not sure where the 12 came from. Although when i first got into reloading i loaded the .45 colt with over 12 grains(not sure how much actually, i read the scale wrong) of unique it keyholed a lot and kicked pretty hard haha but the gun stayed strong. It's a pretty tough rifle.

Have you ever had a problem with lag time from the gun to target? I dunno if its the load or what but when i fire the rifle its pretty accurate but i can hear the bullet smack the target at 70 to 100 yards! Thats with the unique load above so im trying to find a something to give me more fps..

Get used to it. It is what it is, and thats a big heavy slow bullet. If you want speed trade it in for a .22-250 or a .243.

JLA · 10-16-2009, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpo

JLA, you need to update your warning.

You said, "hot .45 colt loads, they should only be shot in ruger/freedom arms revolvers or a TC contender,"

But now Ruger is making the "New Blackhawk", which is smaller framed than the OM Blackhawk, the NM Blackhawk or the Vaquero, and shooting "Ruger Loads" in it can cause a KB. I wonder how the loading manuals are phrasing that now? They can't just say "for Rugers" now, because using those loads in a "New Blackhawk" is dangerous.

most of my data manuals have a section labeled .45 colt (ruger/TC only), I know the old model flattops were of weaker construction. (but they do still chamber them in .44mag???) as well as the new model blackhawks. Rugers proprietary heat treating methods are standard on ALL thier firearms no matter the intended caliber (even the .22 cal single sixes) and that is why the .45 colt revolvers come out as strong as the .44 mag revolvers. Thats why they claim the Rugers will safely shoot purposely overloaded .45 colt ammo. The warning I was attempting to give out was that Hot loaded ammo can be dangerous, especially in a rifle not designed for it. One may think his or her rifle is strong because it holds together while shooting hot loads, but they fail to understand the battering the rifle takes overtime from such practices. You may shoot 1000 rounds of .44 mag level .45 colt without a problem, but one day you decide to let your son or daughter shoot it for the first time and it fails, with catasrophic results. Not a pretty picture... at least in my mind...

JLA · 10-16-2009, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpo

But now Ruger is making the "New Blackhawk", which is smaller framed than the OM Blackhawk, the NM Blackhawk or the Vaquero, and shooting "Ruger Loads" in it can cause a KB. I wonder how the loading manuals are phrasing that now? They can't just say "for Rugers" now, because using those loads in a "New Blackhawk" is dangerous.

The only difference in the old model and the new model is the transfer bar system... They changed form the old style 3 screw, 4 click single action (like a colt) to the new style 2 pin, 2 click revolvers with a transfer bar system linked between the trigger and the hammer. This was brought on in the 1970s because people were too dumb to read the warning stamped on the barrel "keep empty chamber under hammer", so after several lawsuits from dumb @$$es shooting their feet off Bill Ruger authorized the 'New Model' designation and issued a recall for all 'Old Model' 3 screw to be upgraded for free.

The frame dimensions differing only pertain to the blackhawk and superblackhawk respectively, the SBH was intended for serious pressures form serious big bore cartridges like .44 mag, .454 casull, .475 linebaugh etc...Hope this helps clear things up a bit...

Alpo · 10-16-2009, 05:25 PM

When they first came out, the 357 was chambered in a gun with the same frame size as a Colt SAA. The 44 magnum and 45 Colt were in a larger frame gun. Then they made the 41 magnum, and put it in the same large frame. When they made the 30 carbine, for some dumb reason they also put it in the large frame.

Then along came 1973, and the good guns went away. Now they were all "New Model", with that stupid transfer bar. Also, the smaller frame size went away. Now the 357s were made on the same large frame as the 41, 44 and 45. The 45 has always been made on the same size frame as the Super Blackhawk. It just did not have the Super's square-back trigger guard and longer grip. That's why you could load the hell out of 45s, for Rugers. It was a big, strong gun.

Along came the Vaquero. Same frame size. Only difference was the sights. So still, perfectly safe to load very heavy, because it was still being made on the Super Blackhawk frame.

Couple of years ago, they came out with the New Blackhawk. Not the "NEW MODEL", just the "NEW" Blackhawk. It is the same size as the Old Model 357. The same size as a Colt Single Action Army. It was only available in 357 and 45 Colt. It will not take the "Ruger Loads" from all the loading manuals. It is a smaller frame. It has a smaller cylinder. It has much less metal around the chambers.

That's all I was saying. You can no longer say, "Those loads are only safe to shoot in Rugers", because they aren't safe in the New Rugers.

JLA · 10-18-2009, 04:37 PM

ah, I got ya alpo. I didnt know they changed the frame dimensions. I thought they just added a reverse indexing pawl and the old style XR3 'only' grip frame to closly mimick the old colts feel. I couldnt imagine shooting a hot load from one of those dinky grip frame revolvers, it would sorta be like shooting a super redhawk with the grips removed

Kapeller77 · 10-19-2009, 09:03 PM

hey thx for all the commets guys, i shot my .45 lc this weekend with some pretty hot loads 17.4 grains of bluedot.. needless to say not much of any kind of achievements just didnt blow up..the rifle can take pretty high pressure i guess..

JohnTheCalifornian · 10-19-2009, 09:23 PM

It can only take those kinds of pressures for so long til one day BOOM!

Kapeller77 · 10-19-2009, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnTheCalifornian

It can only take those kinds of pressures for so long til one day BOOM!

Yeah, you're probably right but pushing it that far was kinda pointless.. It didn't fix anything i wanted to fix either.. so i probably won't do so it too often

i fired 7 back 2 back tho kicked hard for that little gun!!

JLA · 10-20-2009, 11:34 AM

try a starting load of unique under a heavier bullet. A 255 gr cast lead flat nose has been the facory standard for 130 yrs... PM me your mailing info and Ill send you some of my hand cast 255 grainers if you cant find any...

Claude Clay · 10-20-2009, 12:31 PM

255 gr LFN with 8.0 gr of unique is a modern factor load. moderate crimp.
cowboy shooters may load as light as 6.5 for pistol and 7.2 for rifle.
all the usual disclaimers apply

Kapeller77 · 10-20-2009, 12:54 PM

i may take you up on that offer. That was my first load i ever put together for the 45 lc, 8 gr of unique and a cast fp bullet, it is a good combination.

JLA · 10-20-2009, 06:05 PM

I have always used starting loads in the .45 colt. They are much more pleasant to shoot and are damn accurate. I kinda like hearing the gun go bang and then a couple seconds later hearing the bullet hit the clanger. try to get some Hodgdons tight group. its one of my favorite pistol powders and a superb powder for low pressure loads in the .45 colt, and clean burning as well...

Kapeller77 · 10-20-2009, 06:12 PM

yeah i need to get some metal targets.. i was looking at those in my dillon book the other day.

JLA · 10-20-2009, 06:18 PM

if you have acess to a welder its easier to make them. All you need is some 5/16 inch plate steel set at a 15 to 20 degree forward angle. get creative with the mount or make some hinged reactives like the ones they use in SASS. shootn steel is good fun...

Kapeller77 · 10-20-2009, 06:22 PM

HA, thx for the tip JLA i havent welded since HS but i wouldnt mind playing with one. Thats a good idea i got a buddy with a stick welder i think im gonna go get some steel..I think i'll send him a text now he shoots too. its funny cause i usually like to do everything myself but making my own steel targets never actually crossed my mind..you make your own bullets??

10-14-2009, 04:33 PM	#2
Popgunner Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Contributor Posts: 1,764	Re: 1894 .45 colt Rifle Load? Welcome to the forum Kapeller. We usually suggest finding loads from your manuals or at the least check the online load info from the powder makers. Others recipies may not get along well with your particular gun safetywise.

10-14-2009, 04:42 PM	#3
Kapeller77 Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11	Re: 1894 .45 colt Rifle Load? hey Popgunner thx for the reply! I understand the concerns in getting a recipe from the Internet, i have been going thru my manual i own on that caliber but there isn't a lot of rifle data. So i thought maybe someone else might have a safe recipe i could try out and work up to. You wouldn't happen to have any suggestions for a manual i could use would you?

10-14-2009, 07:44 PM	#4
woolleyworm TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: SW Fort Worth Contributor Posts: 4,884	Re: 1894 .45 colt Rifle Load? Hornady 7th has loads listed on pgs 911-913, but nothing for BlueDot, this is the same in several other manuals also. The loads listed are for Ruger/TC's with longer barrels. Most test barrels listed are from 7-10" in length. Hornady specifically states that these loads should be safe in the 1894 when loads are worked up properly. Do you have any other powder options? This would be my .02. __________________ . What are you gonna do, talk the alien to death? -- (on Sigourney Weaver's worry about Guns in Aliens) "Safety is something that happens between your ears, not something you hold in your hands." "I carry a small gun to compensate for my huge Blue press." . Last edited by woolleyworm; 10-14-2009 at 07:46 PM..

10-14-2009, 10:10 PM	#5
Kapeller77 Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11	Re: 1894 .45 colt Rifle Load? Hey woolleyworm thx for the reply. right now all i have is unique, bluedot, hs-6, and accurate no. 2. right now the best load i have for it is a 230 gr rn with 12 grains of unique behind it.

10-14-2009, 10:40 PM	#6
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,328	Re: 1894 .45 colt Rifle Load? thats a pretty stout load for the .45 colt. you oughtta be using around 9 gr. max for standard pressure data with that powder and bullet. Look for Lyman 49th, it has many many loads for the various level of .45 colt power. Be careful with hot .45 colt loads, they should only be shot in ruger/freedom arms revolvers or a TC contender, 12 gr. unique puts a 250 gr cast lead slug downrange at 1250 fps from a 5.5 inch ruger blackhawk. Thats .44 mag pressures. be careful... __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

10-14-2009, 04:11 PM	#1
Kapeller77 Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11	1894 .45 colt Rifle Load? Does anyone have a good load or two for a 1894 16" barrel .45 colt using Blue Dot powder and 230 gr jhc? Actually any good hunting load recipes for that gun would be most appreciative! Thanks in advance! -->

10-14-2009, 10:59 PM	#7
Kapeller77 Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11	Re: 1894 .45 colt Rifle Load? hey thx jla, oh and that was my bad on that load data, i put the wrong grains on there, the load that i use is 8.5 - 8.9 of unique i went back and looked it up im not sure where the 12 came from. Although when i first got into reloading i loaded the .45 colt with over 12 grains(not sure how much actually, i read the scale wrong) of unique it keyholed a lot and kicked pretty hard haha but the gun stayed strong. It's a pretty tough rifle. Have you ever had a problem with lag time from the gun to target? I dunno if its the load or what but when i fire the rifle its pretty accurate but i can hear the bullet smack the target at 70 to 100 yards! Thats with the unique load above so im trying to find a something to give me more fps..

10-15-2009, 08:52 AM	#8
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,667	Re: 1894 .45 colt Rifle Load? JLA, you need to update your warning. You said, "hot .45 colt loads, they should only be shot in ruger/freedom arms revolvers or a TC contender," But now Ruger is making the "New Blackhawk", which is smaller framed than the OM Blackhawk, the NM Blackhawk or the Vaquero, and shooting "Ruger Loads" in it can cause a KB. I wonder how the loading manuals are phrasing that now? They can't just say "for Rugers" now, because using those loads in a "New Blackhawk" is dangerous. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

10-15-2009, 08:55 AM	#9
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,667	Re: 1894 .45 colt Rifle Load? Kapeller77, get a copy of Speer's manual. In their "Ruger/Contender" loads they have Blue Dot data. At least, they do in Speer #12. I'm not going to give it to you, since it also says, at the top of the page, "Use in these guns only". If you want to use it, in your rifle, that's fine. But get the data out of the book. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

10-15-2009, 09:25 AM	#10
Kapeller77 Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11	Re: 1894 .45 colt Rifle Load? Thx for the reply Alpo, I will definitely check into that manual, what I'm looking for is rifle data though something for a 16" 1894. my manual has bluedot loads in it for ruger which i have tried and did not blow up my gun.. Last edited by Kapeller77; 10-15-2009 at 09:32 AM.. Reason: needed to add something.

10-16-2009, 05:25 PM	#14
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,667	Re: 1894 .45 colt Rifle Load? When they first came out, the 357 was chambered in a gun with the same frame size as a Colt SAA. The 44 magnum and 45 Colt were in a larger frame gun. Then they made the 41 magnum, and put it in the same large frame. When they made the 30 carbine, for some dumb reason they also put it in the large frame. Then along came 1973, and the good guns went away. Now they were all "New Model", with that stupid transfer bar. Also, the smaller frame size went away. Now the 357s were made on the same large frame as the 41, 44 and 45. The 45 has always been made on the same size frame as the Super Blackhawk. It just did not have the Super's square-back trigger guard and longer grip. That's why you could load the hell out of 45s, for Rugers. It was a big, strong gun. Along came the Vaquero. Same frame size. Only difference was the sights. So still, perfectly safe to load very heavy, because it was still being made on the Super Blackhawk frame. Couple of years ago, they came out with the New Blackhawk. Not the "NEW MODEL", just the "NEW" Blackhawk. It is the same size as the Old Model 357. The same size as a Colt Single Action Army. It was only available in 357 and 45 Colt. It will not take the "Ruger Loads" from all the loading manuals. It is a smaller frame. It has a smaller cylinder. It has much less metal around the chambers. That's all I was saying. You can no longer say, "Those loads are only safe to shoot in Rugers", because they aren't safe in the New Rugers. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

10-18-2009, 04:37 PM	#15
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,328	Re: 1894 .45 colt Rifle Load? ah, I got ya alpo. I didnt know they changed the frame dimensions. I thought they just added a reverse indexing pawl and the old style XR3 'only' grip frame to closly mimick the old colts feel. I couldnt imagine shooting a hot load from one of those dinky grip frame revolvers, it would sorta be like shooting a super redhawk with the grips removed __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

10-19-2009, 09:03 PM	#16
Kapeller77 Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11	Re: 1894 .45 colt Rifle Load? hey thx for all the commets guys, i shot my .45 lc this weekend with some pretty hot loads 17.4 grains of bluedot.. needless to say not much of any kind of achievements just didnt blow up..the rifle can take pretty high pressure i guess..

10-19-2009, 09:23 PM	#17
JohnTheCalifornian V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Bakersfield Posts: 433	Re: 1894 .45 colt Rifle Load? It can only take those kinds of pressures for so long til one day BOOM! __________________ Im not a complete idiot.... parts are missing

10-20-2009, 11:34 AM	#19
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,328	Re: 1894 .45 colt Rifle Load? try a starting load of unique under a heavier bullet. A 255 gr cast lead flat nose has been the facory standard for 130 yrs... PM me your mailing info and Ill send you some of my hand cast 255 grainers if you cant find any... __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

10-20-2009, 12:31 PM	#20
Claude Clay V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central CT Posts: 451	Re: 1894 .45 colt Rifle Load? 255 gr LFN with 8.0 gr of unique is a modern factor load. moderate crimp. cowboy shooters may load as light as 6.5 for pistol and 7.2 for rifle. all the usual disclaimers apply __________________ teachers may learn you the rules; experience will teach you the exceptions. NRA Instructor

10-20-2009, 12:54 PM	#21
Kapeller77 Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11	Re: 1894 .45 colt Rifle Load? i may take you up on that offer. That was my first load i ever put together for the 45 lc, 8 gr of unique and a cast fp bullet, it is a good combination.

10-20-2009, 06:05 PM	#22
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,328	Re: 1894 .45 colt Rifle Load? I have always used starting loads in the .45 colt. They are much more pleasant to shoot and are damn accurate. I kinda like hearing the gun go bang and then a couple seconds later hearing the bullet hit the clanger. try to get some Hodgdons tight group. its one of my favorite pistol powders and a superb powder for low pressure loads in the .45 colt, and clean burning as well... __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

10-20-2009, 06:12 PM	#23
Kapeller77 Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11	Re: 1894 .45 colt Rifle Load? yeah i need to get some metal targets.. i was looking at those in my dillon book the other day.

10-20-2009, 06:18 PM	#24
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,328	Re: 1894 .45 colt Rifle Load? if you have acess to a welder its easier to make them. All you need is some 5/16 inch plate steel set at a 15 to 20 degree forward angle. get creative with the mount or make some hinged reactives like the ones they use in SASS. shootn steel is good fun... __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

10-20-2009, 06:22 PM	#25
Kapeller77 Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11	Re: 1894 .45 colt Rifle Load? HA, thx for the tip JLA i havent welded since HS but i wouldnt mind playing with one. Thats a good idea i got a buddy with a stick welder i think im gonna go get some steel..I think i'll send him a text now he shoots too. its funny cause i usually like to do everything myself but making my own steel targets never actually crossed my mind..you make your own bullets??