45 acp with small pistol primers - The Firearms Forum

312shooter · 02-04-2010, 12:29 AM

Just started some 45 loading for a new 1911, stumbling across some brass with SP primers I was thinking about trying a load with SP magnum primers and a start charge. Has anyone tried this? I will be working up a recipe with unique and/or bullseye, 200gr plated bullets, and cci magnum SP primers.

muddober · 02-04-2010, 07:15 AM

I have never seen any 45 ACP case that would accept a small pistol primer, but then again I don't profess to say I have seen everything either. I have used magnum primers when I have been out of standard ones when using Unique but not Bullseye, not to say I wouldn't. I have not used standard primers nor would I when loading with the much slower powders like 2400, H110, or W296.

Reading between the lines I think your thinking is that because they are small primers would SP magnum make up or be equal to standard large pistol primers? It is my understanding, though perhaps not correct, that both standard and magnum primers have the same amount of fuel but that the magnum primer is a bit different fuel that burns at a higher temperature.

Ron

Ron

rocklinskier · 02-04-2010, 07:37 AM

Is the brass you picked up Winchester? I think they use small primers in their "WinClean" ammo. Look for a "NT" stamp on the head. If so,it is a non toxic primer. You might also notice the inside of the case is very clean and shiny for spent ammo.

Bindernut · 02-04-2010, 08:34 AM

If they are NT headstamped Win brass...
Also beware that the brass has a larger flash hole than standard. I presume it's because the non-toxic primer formula might be a little cooler burning than regular primers so it needs a larger flame port into the casing.

if this is the case, watch out for using max or near-max loads in that brass. The theory is that with the larger flash hole you might have more primer flattening or even ruptures with high pressure loads.

Some guys just say to scrap em, but I've used NT .45ACP brass for regular cast lead range loads using standard small primers and WW231/HP38 with no problems. I do keep them segregated from my regular brass though...makes it easier to sort out come reloading time.

carver · 02-04-2010, 09:26 AM

From Winchester.

bntyhntr6975 · 02-04-2010, 12:37 PM

Very good post Carver.

carver · 02-04-2010, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bntyhntr6975

Very good post Carver.

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

jdon72 · 02-04-2010, 12:43 PM

There is another 45 case that uses the small primer....I just through them away. Is it cci or speer? I can not recall for sure. I found it in some used brass I bought recently.

J

carver · 02-04-2010, 12:50 PM

Remington also makes politically correct ammo, vis-à-vis, clean small pistol primers.

Terry_P · 02-04-2010, 04:57 PM

I'd toss them out.

Thanks Carver I remembered that they existed but forgot why.

312shooter · 02-04-2010, 11:57 PM

Thanks for the input guys, here's an example of what I found. These little sheisters really foul up things, after going through several hundred pieces of brass I discovered there were over a hundred mixed in. It becomes tricky after awhile picking them out of the crowd. This was a great lesson for me as I just recently aquired a 1911 and started loading 45acp. Federal,Winchester,Speer and Remington now produce SP primed 45's. Reloading always has its curveballs......doesn't it?

JLA · 02-05-2010, 08:57 PM

I got some, They are too much of a hassle to pick through and prime separately so i use them to load dummy rounds for action proving... Now if I had about 500 of them id reload them and shoot them... nuttn wrong with them for reloading, flash holes are a little big, but theyd work ok for range loads id wager...

woolleyworm · 02-06-2010, 09:40 AM

Another one that can get you is the 7.62x39; it too can have two different primers in factory loads. Not many people reload this round, but if you do decide to; make sure you check!

JLA · 02-07-2010, 11:23 AM

yeah, 7.62X39 remington brass has small rifle holes and winchester has large rifle holes. WTF, they tryin to make me pop a primer

woolleyworm · 02-07-2010, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLA

yeah, 7.62X39 remington brass has small rifle holes and winchester has large rifle holes. WTF, they tryin to make me pop a primer

Lets just say that it's a good thing that I'm pretty gentle and when feeling anything abnormal while primining; I stop first, take a look at everything and then proceed! Trying to force a lrp into a srp hole just doesn't work too well.

JLA · 02-07-2010, 07:51 PM

no sir it dont... I smashed one plum flat priming .45ACP when I ran into an NT case i missed. the miracle is it didnt go off. I was priming with my auto prime 2 press mounted priming tool. I was in the groove and working dilligently when screeech the brakes came on and I ground to a halt. Had a hell of a time getting the shell out of the shell holder...

muddober · 02-07-2010, 11:06 PM

Small pistol primers in a 45 ACP case ??? I get the part about lead free but why go small and not stick with large? I must really be getting old... What's next, air bullets?

Ron

dsv424 · 02-15-2010, 01:22 PM

Just came across another NT case. This one was made by Fiocchi and it does not state NT on it. Just a heads up. Could have busted my primer seater if I wasn't aware of them.
The first time I came across one about 3 months ago with a Federal case I thought (without looking closely) it was a crimped case and tried reaming it.

TheGunClinger · 02-15-2010, 06:14 PM

I got a big can of those cases. Nt CCI Speer etc. Really screws up a loading session. I did load one of them with a small pistol primer just to see if it would work and it worked just fine. If I didnt already have a few thousand clean .45 casings I would set up the press for those casings. Down the road, who knows.?

dsv424 · 02-15-2010, 06:29 PM

I'm doing the same thing. I got about 200 set aside now and will probably try them out sometime. But with how much regular .45 ACP I have it won't be any time soon.

02-04-2010, 12:29 AM	#1
312shooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Las Vegas NV Posts: 1,148	45 acp with small pistol primers Just started some 45 loading for a new 1911, stumbling across some brass with SP primers I was thinking about trying a load with SP magnum primers and a start charge. Has anyone tried this? I will be working up a recipe with unique and/or bullseye, 200gr plated bullets, and cci magnum SP primers. __________________ "Democracy is based on citizenship- perhaps the greatest gift the United States has given to the world- Power is vested in the people themselves, and government flows from the people" James M Henslin -->

02-04-2010, 07:15 AM	#2
muddober Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,436	Re: 45 acp with small pistol primers I have never seen any 45 ACP case that would accept a small pistol primer, but then again I don't profess to say I have seen everything either. I have used magnum primers when I have been out of standard ones when using Unique but not Bullseye, not to say I wouldn't. I have not used standard primers nor would I when loading with the much slower powders like 2400, H110, or W296. Reading between the lines I think your thinking is that because they are small primers would SP magnum make up or be equal to standard large pistol primers? It is my understanding, though perhaps not correct, that both standard and magnum primers have the same amount of fuel but that the magnum primer is a bit different fuel that burns at a higher temperature. Ron Ron

02-04-2010, 07:37 AM	#3
rocklinskier V.I.P. Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 295	Re: 45 acp with small pistol primers Is the brass you picked up Winchester? I think they use small primers in their "WinClean" ammo. Look for a "NT" stamp on the head. If so,it is a non toxic primer. You might also notice the inside of the case is very clean and shiny for spent ammo. __________________ Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it on to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children what it was once like in the United States where men were free ~Ronald Reagan.

02-04-2010, 08:34 AM	#4
Bindernut Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: ND, USA Posts: 2,443	Re: 45 acp with small pistol primers If they are NT headstamped Win brass... Also beware that the brass has a larger flash hole than standard. I presume it's because the non-toxic primer formula might be a little cooler burning than regular primers so it needs a larger flame port into the casing. if this is the case, watch out for using max or near-max loads in that brass. The theory is that with the larger flash hole you might have more primer flattening or even ruptures with high pressure loads. Some guys just say to scrap em, but I've used NT .45ACP brass for regular cast lead range loads using standard small primers and WW231/HP38 with no problems. I do keep them segregated from my regular brass though...makes it easier to sort out come reloading time.

02-04-2010, 09:26 AM	#5
carver TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: DAV, Deep in the Pineywoods of East Texas, just west of Shreveport, LA Contributor Posts: 11,243	Re: 45 acp with small pistol primers From Winchester. Attached Images __________________ Y'all be safe now, ya hear! Lamentations Chapter 5: 1. Remember, O LORD, what is come upon us: consider, and behold our reproach. 2. Our inheritance is turned to strangers, our houses to aliens. 3. We are orphans and fatherless, our mothers [are] as widows. 5. Our necks [are] under persecution: we labour, [and] have no rest. 16. The crown is fallen [from] our head: woe unto us, that we have sinned! 21. Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.

02-04-2010, 12:37 PM	#6
bntyhntr6975 V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Wichita, Ks. Posts: 258	Re: 45 acp with small pistol primers Very good post Carver. __________________ There is a fine line between paranoid and prepared.

02-04-2010, 12:43 PM	#8
jdon72 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 340	Re: 45 acp with small pistol primers There is another 45 case that uses the small primer....I just through them away. Is it cci or speer? I can not recall for sure. I found it in some used brass I bought recently. J

02-04-2010, 12:50 PM	#9
carver TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: DAV, Deep in the Pineywoods of East Texas, just west of Shreveport, LA Contributor Posts: 11,243	Re: 45 acp with small pistol primers Remington also makes politically correct ammo, vis-à-vis, clean small pistol primers. __________________ Y'all be safe now, ya hear! Lamentations Chapter 5: 1. Remember, O LORD, what is come upon us: consider, and behold our reproach. 2. Our inheritance is turned to strangers, our houses to aliens. 3. We are orphans and fatherless, our mothers [are] as widows. 5. Our necks [are] under persecution: we labour, [and] have no rest. 16. The crown is fallen [from] our head: woe unto us, that we have sinned! 21. Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.

02-04-2010, 04:57 PM	#10
Terry_P Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: NH Posts: 2,513	Re: 45 acp with small pistol primers I'd toss them out. Thanks Carver I remembered that they existed but forgot why. __________________ NRA and NAHC Life "Both oligarch and tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms." -Aristotle

02-04-2010, 11:57 PM	#11
312shooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Las Vegas NV Posts: 1,148	Re: 45 acp with small pistol primers Thanks for the input guys, here's an example of what I found. These little sheisters really foul up things, after going through several hundred pieces of brass I discovered there were over a hundred mixed in. It becomes tricky after awhile picking them out of the crowd. This was a great lesson for me as I just recently aquired a 1911 and started loading 45acp. Federal,Winchester,Speer and Remington now produce SP primed 45's. Reloading always has its curveballs......doesn't it? Attached Images __________________ "Democracy is based on citizenship- perhaps the greatest gift the United States has given to the world- Power is vested in the people themselves, and government flows from the people" James M Henslin Last edited by 312shooter; 02-05-2010 at 12:04 AM..

02-05-2010, 08:57 PM	#12
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,308	Re: 45 acp with small pistol primers I got some, They are too much of a hassle to pick through and prime separately so i use them to load dummy rounds for action proving... Now if I had about 500 of them id reload them and shoot them... nuttn wrong with them for reloading, flash holes are a little big, but theyd work ok for range loads id wager... __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

02-06-2010, 09:40 AM	#13
woolleyworm TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: SW Fort Worth Contributor Posts: 4,883	Re: 45 acp with small pistol primers Another one that can get you is the 7.62x39; it too can have two different primers in factory loads. Not many people reload this round, but if you do decide to; make sure you check! __________________ . What are you gonna do, talk the alien to death? -- (on Sigourney Weaver's worry about Guns in Aliens) "Safety is something that happens between your ears, not something you hold in your hands." "I carry a small gun to compensate for my huge Blue press." .

02-07-2010, 11:23 AM	#14
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,308	Re: 45 acp with small pistol primers yeah, 7.62X39 remington brass has small rifle holes and winchester has large rifle holes. WTF, they tryin to make me pop a primer __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

02-07-2010, 07:51 PM	#16
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,308	Re: 45 acp with small pistol primers no sir it dont... I smashed one plum flat priming .45ACP when I ran into an NT case i missed. the miracle is it didnt go off. I was priming with my auto prime 2 press mounted priming tool. I was in the groove and working dilligently when screeech the brakes came on and I ground to a halt. Had a hell of a time getting the shell out of the shell holder... __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

02-07-2010, 11:06 PM	#17
muddober Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,436	Re: 45 acp with small pistol primers Small pistol primers in a 45 ACP case ??? I get the part about lead free but why go small and not stick with large? I must really be getting old... What's next, air bullets? Ron

02-15-2010, 01:22 PM	#18
dsv424 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Garland, Tx. Posts: 279	Re: 45 acp with small pistol primers Just came across another NT case. This one was made by Fiocchi and it does not state NT on it. Just a heads up. Could have busted my primer seater if I wasn't aware of them. The first time I came across one about 3 months ago with a Federal case I thought (without looking closely) it was a crimped case and tried reaming it.

02-15-2010, 06:14 PM	#19
TheGunClinger Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: SW Florida Contributor Posts: 2,382	Re: 45 acp with small pistol primers I got a big can of those cases. Nt CCI Speer etc. Really screws up a loading session. I did load one of them with a small pistol primer just to see if it would work and it worked just fine. If I didnt already have a few thousand clean .45 casings I would set up the press for those casings. Down the road, who knows.? __________________ New England Patriots Rule Next year.

02-15-2010, 06:29 PM	#20
dsv424 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Garland, Tx. Posts: 279	Re: 45 acp with small pistol primers I'm doing the same thing. I got about 200 set aside now and will probably try them out sometime. But with how much regular .45 ACP I have it won't be any time soon.