Estimate the value of muskets

[Kiki]

Hi everyone

I have some old muskets here, but it is verry hard to find information about them and to estimate the value of them.
Here an example:
A Prussian dragoon model of 1740.
the wrist escutcheon contains the royal cypher of Frederick II, King of Prussia.
The length is 90 cm.
The barrel was not shortened and it measures 51.5cm (ca 20.27 inches).
The diameter of the muzzle is 9mm.

Do you have any idea of the financial worth of this musket?

Thanks in advance!
Greetz Kiki

[Jim K]

We have a couple of folks who hang around here who have a lot of expertise in those Prussian muskets. I hope they will respond.

Just FWIW, I think the barrel and foreend were cut down at one time from a full length musket; I am pretty certain that front band is not original, though the ramrod thimble appears to be.

Jim

[Hawg]

A 20 inch barrel is mighty short for a flinter so yeah it was cut down.

[Kiki]

Thx!

Somebody told me that the barrel is made that way because it is a dragoon intended piece.
I put some other pictures to show how the barrel looks like.

[rhmc24]

Your dimenstions could indicate a large dragoon pistol rather than a shoulder arm musket. If indeed a shoulder arm, a muskettoon (sort of a carbine). Please post a picture of the entire piece so we can ID it and and its condition. If it is in reasonalbly good condition and doesn't show sign of amateurish repairs, it could value in the $2000 range.

[Kiki]

Hi

Here it is :-)
It has not been repaired.
Thx a lot for the help!
Greetzs
Kiki

[rhmc24]

You have a beautiful little musketoon. It looks entirely correct. When a musket barrel is shortened, the length of the fore arm wood from the lockplate to the ramrod tunnel is rarely shortened to maintain the correct proportions because the shortening of the barrel is for utiiitarian reason rather than as a collectible. The front sight too, is correct.

I think you have a rare gun. I have seen a number of the Pottsdammagaz dragoon pistols but never before a musketoon. Congratulations!

Whatever you do, don't clean it or remove rust, etc. If I had it I would just wipe it clean and maybe give it a coat of Johnson's Paste Floor Wax.

[Kiki]

Hi

Thanks for your kind interest and the useful information!

I have a number of old weapons including muskets, swords and sabres. I would like to sell them. Do you know a reliable forum to estimate their value or/and to find a buyer?

Greetzs
Kiki

[Jim K]

Hi, rhmc24,

I greatly value your opinions and expertise but I still think that forearm (and barrel) has been cut. It is odd to see a military arm that late without a fore-end tip and enlarged ramrod guide, especially a carbine or musketoon that might be loaded on horseback. The brass "band" doesn't look like a tip; it appears to have been in the nature of a repair and seems to have no purpose other than to hold the already split wood together.

I definitely second you on not trying to clean the gun or remove rust.

Jim

[rhmc24]

Jim K -- My thoughts are based on having had several Pottsdammagaz dragoon pistols in hand. The simple wrap-around stock muzzle band and ramrod pipes are typical to all of them. Having never seen a full size Pottsdam musket I can't cite experience but imagine that a musketoon might have more pistol-like characteristics.

The simple muzzle band was almost a standard of mid-1700s European pistols as seen on least half dozen French 1733 and more Germanic pieces I've had in my shop.

The Pottsdam pistols and the French 1733 both have a history in this country. My guess the Pottsdams came during the American Revolution with the English German mercenaries. French dating back before the French-Indian war. Both the pistols rare compared to surviving English pre-Rev 12" dragoons, dozen or more English to one. Some mine and some from clients, I have had several early English Brown Bess muskets, maybe three French and no Germanics in my shop.

[rhmc24]

Further - this brings up a picture of the Pottsdam pistol. The horstheld.com website is one of the better sources of pix of fine European guns. The pistol would have about 15" barrel.
http://horstheld.com/0-Prussian.htm

[Jim K]

Hi, rhmc24,

That first pistol is pretty convincing, having the same muzzle treatment as the one shown by Kiki. I can see why you felt the gun had not been cut, and I gladly yield to your greater expertise.

Jim

[Buffalochip]

Originally Posted by rhmc24

You have a beautiful little musketoon. It looks entirely correct. When a musket barrel is shortened, the length of the fore arm wood from the lockplate to the ramrod tunnel is rarely shortened to maintain the correct proportions because the shortening of the barrel is for utiiitarian reason rather than as a collectible. The front sight too, is correct.

I think you have a rare gun. I have seen a number of the Pottsdammagaz dragoon pistols but never before a musketoon. Congratulations!

Whatever you do, don't clean it or remove rust, etc. If I had it I would just wipe it clean and maybe give it a coat of Johnson's Paste Floor Wax.

Not only are the proportions correct, if that barrel had been shortened, the barrel wall would be thicker. It looks entirely correct.

[rhmc24]

Thanks Jim. I think the closest we can get to expertise is experience and familiarity. Mine is concentrated in pre-1800 pistols, mostly non American, plus Colt automatics .38 & .45ACP 1900-05.

I envy the broad knowledge you and a couple others demonstrate daily for us gun folk.

[Jim K]

Part of my problem is that most of the old (pre-1800) guns I see are either super qualilty in museums (belonged to King this or Emperor that) or worn out, beat up junk, rusted and with wood splintered, chipped, dented and cracked, sometimes with "repairs" by some local tinsmith. So I tend to think along those lines and miss when I see a gun that is just average condition for its age.

I'll try to keep a more open mind.

Jim

[Kiki]

Hi

Thanks for all the interest and valuable information. I'm still looking for a buyer. Soon i will post some photo's of other guns on the forum.

Greetings
Kiki

[Jim K]

FWIW, the marking on the lockplate is POTZDAMMAGAZ for Potzdam Magazine. Potsdam (the current spelling) is a city southwest of Berlin, now considered part of the Berlin metro area, though it is the capital of the state of Brandenburg. In that era, it was the site of an Imperial Prussian arsenal (magazine) where arms were made and stored.

Jim

[rhmc24]

Kiki - I sent you a PM