Mystery Shotgun! - The Firearms Forum

Chino · 06-27-2011, 01:58 PM

My friend owns this antique side by side shotgun. It is obviously old. It is muzzle loading and he believes it is a 20 ga. However there are no markings on it of any kind! No names, no serial numbers, no nuthin'! He even works in a gun store, and nobody seems to know anything about it! We are hoping some of you out there might be able to give us a little info!
Here's some photos.
Thanks!

Alpo · 06-27-2011, 02:36 PM

The carving on the butt looks to be German, while the forearm looks American, so I'm gonna take a SWAG with Penn Dutch.

hrf · 06-27-2011, 03:51 PM

Have you had the barrels off? If European, there should be proofmarks on underside. (remove ramrod, tap out the cross key in forearm, and lift up on front end of barrels)

Chino · 06-27-2011, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hrf

Have you had the barrels off? If European, there should be proofmarks on underside. (remove ramrod, tap out the cross key in forearm, and lift up on front end of barrels)

Yes, he's had the whole thing apart. No markings anywhere. I'm wondering if it was one of a kind, made by a gunsmith. Interesting note... it is loaded. He's soaking the chambers with oil, then he'll extract the charges.
Here's some more photos.

hrf · 06-27-2011, 05:39 PM

Alpo's guess may be right then, and if ever marked, the maker's name on rib may have been rusted away.

BETH · 06-27-2011, 08:35 PM

the carvings on the butt look spanish to me a leaf and swirls?

Hawg · 06-27-2011, 08:52 PM

The hammers and lock plates look homemade. The stock and trigger guard look Belgian. It looks a lot like my Ancion which btw was faintly marked on the rib and hidden amongst the scroll work.

Jim Hauff · 06-27-2011, 09:21 PM

I think it was made by Helmar Stoltsfutz - a PA German dude living in Intercourse PA back in the mid-1870s.
(Just kidding) But my first impression was that it had a German look to the carving and inlay. The "star" inlay on the butt stock looks a bit like a "Hex" sign. Maybe an old world gun repaired or refurbished by a local smith in a rural area of the US.

Buffalochip · 06-28-2011, 06:44 AM

hammers are mismatched--left looks like a replacement. nice wallhanger

Hawg · 06-28-2011, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buffalochip

hammers are mismatched--left looks like a replacement. nice wallhanger

They don't look so much mismatched as they do flattened. Like they came off of something else and reworked to fit. They look too crude for the rest of the gun. The lock plates don't look right either. I've never seen a plate with part of it sticking up above the wood like those do in front of the flash guards. They fit too well into the inlet and around the flash guards to have come off something else tho. Makes me think somebody made them for it. I really don't think they're original to the gun.

Trigger guard on my Ancion.

Shield on wrist.

Chino · 06-30-2011, 05:33 PM

Wow!
Thanks for all the input!

06-27-2011, 01:58 PM	#1
Chino Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 3	Mystery Shotgun! My friend owns this antique side by side shotgun. It is obviously old. It is muzzle loading and he believes it is a 20 ga. However there are no markings on it of any kind! No names, no serial numbers, no nuthin'! He even works in a gun store, and nobody seems to know anything about it! We are hoping some of you out there might be able to give us a little info! Here's some photos. Thanks! Attached Images -->

06-27-2011, 02:36 PM	#2
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,662	Re: Mystery Shotgun! The carving on the butt looks to be German, while the forearm looks American, so I'm gonna take a SWAG with Penn Dutch. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

06-27-2011, 03:51 PM	#3
hrf Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2,283	Re: Mystery Shotgun! Have you had the barrels off? If European, there should be proofmarks on underside. (remove ramrod, tap out the cross key in forearm, and lift up on front end of barrels)

06-27-2011, 05:39 PM	#5
hrf Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2,283	Re: Mystery Shotgun! Alpo's guess may be right then, and if ever marked, the maker's name on rib may have been rusted away.

06-27-2011, 08:35 PM	#6
BETH Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: naugatuck,Ct. Contributor Posts: 6,676	Re: Mystery Shotgun! the carvings on the butt look spanish to me a leaf and swirls?

06-27-2011, 08:52 PM	#7
Hawg Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,559	Re: Mystery Shotgun! The hammers and lock plates look homemade. The stock and trigger guard look Belgian. It looks a lot like my Ancion which btw was faintly marked on the rib and hidden amongst the scroll work.

06-27-2011, 09:21 PM	#8
Jim Hauff Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Lehigh Valley, PA Posts: 2,980	Re: Mystery Shotgun! I think it was made by Helmar Stoltsfutz - a PA German dude living in Intercourse PA back in the mid-1870s. (Just kidding) But my first impression was that it had a German look to the carving and inlay. The "star" inlay on the butt stock looks a bit like a "Hex" sign. Maybe an old world gun repaired or refurbished by a local smith in a rural area of the US. __________________ Jim Hauff ~ H&R Collector In Memory of Bill Goforth and Jim Ritchie

06-28-2011, 06:44 AM	#9
Buffalochip Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 754	Re: Mystery Shotgun! hammers are mismatched--left looks like a replacement. nice wallhanger

06-30-2011, 05:33 PM	#11
Chino Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 3	Re: Mystery Shotgun! Wow! Thanks for all the input!