broom handle? - The Firearms Forum

gmoody · 11-11-2009, 01:48 PM

I am looking for info on this pistol. My father-in-law sent it home from WWII.
I am attaching a pic of it placed on a paper showing what is stamped on the frame. I misspelled ANCIENS on the paper. I beleive it is 9mm.

deadin · 11-11-2009, 02:29 PM

What you have is a Model 1908 Bergmann Bayard in 9x23 Bergmann Bayard.(Same-same as the 9mm Largo) These guns were made on contract for several countries, the main ones being Spain (as the M1908) and Denmark as the M1910. (Bergmann contracted with AE Pipers to manufacture them as Bergmann was fulfilling other contracts at the time and didn't have the capacity. There are also civilian versions known.
These guns are not common and will usually bring a good price if you can find the right buyer. I haven't owned one in years, so I don't know what they are currently worth. The few vaule guides I have show one in excellent condition (like yours) valued up around $1400-1500. The was one not nearly as nice as yours recently on GB. They were asking around $2500 and didn't get any offers.

Neat Gun!!

RJay · 11-11-2009, 10:47 PM

The condition that gun is in, it will bring top dollar. The magazines them self are quite rare and are valuable. Like deadin, it's been quit a while since I handled one and it was not nearly as good condition as yours. No, it is not a Broom handle.

gmoody · 11-12-2009, 11:17 AM

Thanks for the info, but now I am cofused as to wheather this is a 1908 or a 1910 model. I now have an article by Cliff Carlisle and another by Guns & Ammo that say the 1908 was modified in 1909 for the Danes. They cut a semicircle in the magazine well and stamped a concentric ring in the clip and called it 1910. They say 4840 of the 1910 were delivered before WW1, when they were discontinued. Can anyone clear this up?

deadin · 11-12-2009, 02:15 PM

You're right! I had to go back to my books and do a little more research and it looks like yours is a M1910 or a M1910/21. After WW1, AEP couldn"t fulfill any more contracts for the Danes, so Denmark started building the Bergamann-Bayard in their own arsenals. They made some further modifications, like the "S" shaped mainspring and desiginated them as M1910/21's. Many of the original M1910s were updated with the same mods.

gmoody · 11-12-2009, 02:44 PM

I seen the same info, mine is not the 10/21 variation, I think, as there is no stamp as such. The other articles said it would be there. Thanks alot

old jeff · 11-12-2009, 02:53 PM

Beautiful piece.

You are lucky to have it.

11-11-2009, 01:48 PM	#1
gmoody Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 12	broom handle? I am looking for info on this pistol. My father-in-law sent it home from WWII. I am attaching a pic of it placed on a paper showing what is stamped on the frame. I misspelled ANCIENS on the paper. I beleive it is 9mm. Attached Images -->

11-11-2009, 02:29 PM	#2
deadin Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 867	Re: broom handle? What you have is a Model 1908 Bergmann Bayard in 9x23 Bergmann Bayard.(Same-same as the 9mm Largo) These guns were made on contract for several countries, the main ones being Spain (as the M1908) and Denmark as the M1910. (Bergmann contracted with AE Pipers to manufacture them as Bergmann was fulfilling other contracts at the time and didn't have the capacity. There are also civilian versions known. These guns are not common and will usually bring a good price if you can find the right buyer. I haven't owned one in years, so I don't know what they are currently worth. The few vaule guides I have show one in excellent condition (like yours) valued up around $1400-1500. The was one not nearly as nice as yours recently on GB. They were asking around $2500 and didn't get any offers. Neat Gun!!

11-11-2009, 10:47 PM	#3
RJay Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,498	Re: broom handle? The condition that gun is in, it will bring top dollar. The magazines them self are quite rare and are valuable. Like deadin, it's been quit a while since I handled one and it was not nearly as good condition as yours. No, it is not a Broom handle. __________________ RonJames

11-12-2009, 11:17 AM	#4
gmoody Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 12	Re: broom handle? Thanks for the info, but now I am cofused as to wheather this is a 1908 or a 1910 model. I now have an article by Cliff Carlisle and another by Guns & Ammo that say the 1908 was modified in 1909 for the Danes. They cut a semicircle in the magazine well and stamped a concentric ring in the clip and called it 1910. They say 4840 of the 1910 were delivered before WW1, when they were discontinued. Can anyone clear this up?

11-12-2009, 02:15 PM	#5
deadin Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 867	Re: broom handle? You're right! I had to go back to my books and do a little more research and it looks like yours is a M1910 or a M1910/21. After WW1, AEP couldn"t fulfill any more contracts for the Danes, so Denmark started building the Bergamann-Bayard in their own arsenals. They made some further modifications, like the "S" shaped mainspring and desiginated them as M1910/21's. Many of the original M1910s were updated with the same mods.

11-12-2009, 02:44 PM	#6
gmoody Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 12	Re: broom handle? I seen the same info, mine is not the 10/21 variation, I think, as there is no stamp as such. The other articles said it would be there. Thanks alot

11-12-2009, 02:53 PM	#7
old jeff Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Roanoke, Virginia Posts: 34	Re: broom handle? Beautiful piece. You are lucky to have it.