NYC LEOS need range time - The Firearms Forum

22WRF · 11-13-2007, 08:41 PM

NEW YORK (AP) - An unarmed, mentally ill teenager could be heard cursing and yelling "I've got a gun!" during a frantic 911 call made by his exasperated mother before police arrived and killed him with a 20-bullet barrage, according to a tape of the call released Tuesday.

The officers backed up and ordered him to stop, police said. When the teen refused and kept approaching them, they began shooting from a distance of 5 to 7 feet, police said. Police said eight of the 20 bullets struck Coppin, who was pronounced dead at a hospital.

http://apnews.myway.com//article/200...D8ST41P80.html

berto64 · 11-13-2007, 08:46 PM

Range time heck, take these guys firearms away from them before they kill the population.

Wonder where the other 12 rds went?

pickenup · 11-13-2007, 11:42 PM

Scary

Bruce FLinch · 11-13-2007, 11:56 PM

Hell, if a nut wanted to take out some civvies. He could go to a mall in NY. Yell ,"I got a gun" & the cops would kill everyone around him. He wouldn't need a gun.
I'd say this incident is sad for the Family & embarrassing for the cops.

The cops need some training & target practice.

satellite66 · 11-14-2007, 06:00 AM

I watched the story on the news last night they played the 911 tape. They were told he was armed with a gun he did have knives he also kept reaching for something under his shirt and nowhere in the call was it mentioned that he was a nut job.

Lilly · 11-14-2007, 08:28 AM

8 hits out of 20! YIKES!!
Lilly

satellite66 · 11-14-2007, 02:41 PM

Stress reeks hell on accuracy.

njretcop · 11-14-2007, 02:59 PM

Pretty easy to sit behind a computer screen and criticize someone whose job most of you would not want, or be qualified for......

LurpyGeek · 11-14-2007, 03:03 PM

I was speaking with a shooting instructor at a gun show here recently about a study that was done looking at statistics from officer involved shootings from many U.S. cities of a variety of sizes. He said that the study showed that police officers on average (I know there are exceptions) had a hit rate of 17% in actual altercations. He stated that high stress situations definitely make it more difficult to be accurate, but that doesn't account for a percentage that low. He said it's not the officers fault either. It's the departments that don't want to pay for overtime at the range and don't want to foot the bill for practice ammo.

DWARREN123 · 11-15-2007, 12:43 PM

I have talked to some LEO's who really do not like range time. I have shot more 9mm in the last month than all the calibers they shoot in one year. Some do need more training and some need more money for training.

FLA2760 · 11-15-2007, 02:17 PM

The police have is VERY tough job. However more range time is always good. Keep in mind that NYC has been anti gun for years and many NYC residents are not very familiar with firearms. I lived there 33 years and I am now in Florida enjoying my freedom. I was robbed three times at gunpoint while I lived in NYC. The gun ban did nothing to protect me!
In NYC you need a permit to have a gun in your home.

delta13soultaker · 11-15-2007, 10:39 PM

I'm gonna side with the cops....having been in situations where it was confusing how things might really be...and not wanting myself or my mates to get hurt...I understand it is their final decision to fire.

But their markmanship...does not reflect well on their training...and leaves question where else they are substandard.

Anyway...hindsight is a luxury that does not do anything for a person in a dangerous situation at the moment they believe they are going to get hurt...so be careful with your criticism.

Bruce FLinch · 11-16-2007, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njretcop

Pretty easy to sit behind a computer screen and criticize someone whose job most of you would not want, or be qualified for......

Yes it is! Police need constant training & that takes time & tax money. It also has to have officers that are willing to use a good attitude about use of their weapon. If I were a Police Officer, I would want to be as good with my tools as possible. I know 2 cops who would rather play golf than practice gun skills. " I don't want to clean my gun". Hell, it's your tool & your life & someone else's life. Ok, if you want to substitute your gun for a golf club, I guess.

11-13-2007, 08:41 PM	#1
22WRF Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pea Ridge, FL Contributor Posts: 4,251	NYC LEOS need range time NEW YORK (AP) - An unarmed, mentally ill teenager could be heard cursing and yelling "I've got a gun!" during a frantic 911 call made by his exasperated mother before police arrived and killed him with a 20-bullet barrage, according to a tape of the call released Tuesday. The officers backed up and ordered him to stop, police said. When the teen refused and kept approaching them, they began shooting from a distance of 5 to 7 feet, police said. Police said eight of the 20 bullets struck Coppin, who was pronounced dead at a hospital. http://apnews.myway.com//article/200...D8ST41P80.html __________________ NRA GOA CCRKBA Happiness is a warm barrel -->

11-13-2007, 08:46 PM	#2
berto64 VMBB Admin Staff Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Owyhee County, Idaho Contributor Posts: 7,388	Re: NYC LEOS need range time Range time heck, take these guys firearms away from them before they kill the population. Wonder where the other 12 rds went? __________________ Be who you are & say what you will, Those that matter won't mind and those that mind don't matter. I'm a bitter clinger, One Nation Under God.

11-13-2007, 11:42 PM	#3
pickenup Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains Posts: 6,837	Re: NYC LEOS need range time Scary __________________ The gene pool needs chlorine

11-13-2007, 11:56 PM	#4
Bruce FLinch Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bay Point, Kali..aka Gun Point Posts: 5,016	Re: NYC LEOS need range time Hell, if a nut wanted to take out some civvies. He could go to a mall in NY. Yell ,"I got a gun" & the cops would kill everyone around him. He wouldn't need a gun. I'd say this incident is sad for the Family & embarrassing for the cops. The cops need some training & target practice. __________________ A bad day @ the Range, is better than a good day @ work.

11-14-2007, 06:00 AM	#5
satellite66 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Central NJ Posts: 2,068	Re: NYC LEOS need range time I watched the story on the news last night they played the 911 tape. They were told he was armed with a gun he did have knives he also kept reaching for something under his shirt and nowhere in the call was it mentioned that he was a nut job. __________________ “Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not” — Thomas Jefferson. "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas, U.S. Socialist Party presidential candidate 1940, 1944 and 1948

11-14-2007, 08:28 AM	#6
Lilly V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Central Lower , Michigan Posts: 279	Re: NYC LEOS need range time 8 hits out of 20! YIKES!! Lilly

11-14-2007, 02:41 PM	#7
satellite66 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Central NJ Posts: 2,068	Re: NYC LEOS need range time Stress reeks hell on accuracy. __________________ “Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not” — Thomas Jefferson. "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas, U.S. Socialist Party presidential candidate 1940, 1944 and 1948

11-14-2007, 02:59 PM	#8
njretcop Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NJ Posts: 1,537	Re: NYC LEOS need range time Pretty easy to sit behind a computer screen and criticize someone whose job most of you would not want, or be qualified for...... __________________ Charlie

11-14-2007, 03:03 PM	#9
LurpyGeek Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: UT Posts: 1,436	Re: NYC LEOS need range time I was speaking with a shooting instructor at a gun show here recently about a study that was done looking at statistics from officer involved shootings from many U.S. cities of a variety of sizes. He said that the study showed that police officers on average (I know there are exceptions) had a hit rate of 17% in actual altercations. He stated that high stress situations definitely make it more difficult to be accurate, but that doesn't account for a percentage that low. He said it's not the officers fault either. It's the departments that don't want to pay for overtime at the range and don't want to foot the bill for practice ammo. __________________ Knowing is half the battle... Of course, the other half is violence.

11-15-2007, 12:43 PM	#10
DWARREN123 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: BETWEEN TN & KY Posts: 764	Re: NYC LEOS need range time I have talked to some LEO's who really do not like range time. I have shot more 9mm in the last month than all the calibers they shoot in one year. Some do need more training and some need more money for training. __________________ Have a nice day!

11-15-2007, 02:17 PM	#11
FLA2760 Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 12	Re: NYC LEOS need range time The police have is VERY tough job. However more range time is always good. Keep in mind that NYC has been anti gun for years and many NYC residents are not very familiar with firearms. I lived there 33 years and I am now in Florida enjoying my freedom. I was robbed three times at gunpoint while I lived in NYC. The gun ban did nothing to protect me! In NYC you need a permit to have a gun in your home. Last edited by FLA2760; 11-15-2007 at 02:25 PM..

11-15-2007, 10:39 PM	#12
delta13soultaker Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Depends on Uncle Sam's whim every 3 yrs. Posts: 2,948	Re: NYC LEOS need range time I'm gonna side with the cops....having been in situations where it was confusing how things might really be...and not wanting myself or my mates to get hurt...I understand it is their final decision to fire. But their markmanship...does not reflect well on their training...and leaves question where else they are substandard. Anyway...hindsight is a luxury that does not do anything for a person in a dangerous situation at the moment they believe they are going to get hurt...so be careful with your criticism. __________________ Never say die! "A nation who forgets its defenders is soon forgotten itself." "A good shot must necessarily be a good man since the essence of good marksmanship is self-control and self-control is the essential quality of a good man." – Theodore Roosevelt