psyco scenario, what would you do? - The Firearms Forum

dbl tap · 02-23-2007, 04:16 PM

It seems every week we hear of a psycho waking up hating the world and going into a crowded place and open firing. The first I recall and most famous would be the Luby's cafeteria in Texas 1991.
What would you do if you found yourself in a mall and some bg opens up with a large caliber semi auto pistol? For the sake of discussion you have an avenue of retreat. But, the bg is shooting freely at people. Personally, if I had a clear shot from cover, I would take the shot. If he returned direct fire, I would retreat. As I have three young kids and a wife. If I was a single guy I would shoot it out to save as many other people as possible.
Another factor would be whether I had my Glock 19 or my 90% of the time carry weapon Kel-Tec 380. I can fire the Glock accurately from 3 times the range with twice the ammo capacity also.
It's tough to say what I would do typing here at my computer. I might possibly be so POed that I bring all of my training to bear on the guy and try to take him out... Any thoughts? Dbl Tap

AL MOUNT · 02-23-2007, 04:59 PM

No brag...just fact.......

Two days ago, Feb. 21st, was the 39th anniversary of being shot in the leg by an NVA soldier,

near Hue during the Tet offensive of 1968.

My point being, is that I've always felt I was living on "Borrowed time' ever since.

Without thinking twice, I would try to approach, preferably from the rear & un-noticed.

Draw my .380, (wishing like hell I had carried my 1911 that day.....

)

Take a slow 2 handed aim, never uttering a word of warning, mind you...

And try to kill the sum-bitch stone dead....

But that's just the kind of swell fellar that I am.....

catfish83861 · 02-23-2007, 05:08 PM

Al, you can be my backup anytime,my thoughts exactly on the outcome.I however have not had the experience of being shot.YET. Hope to pass on that experience. catfish

Crpdeth · 02-23-2007, 05:16 PM

I think instinct takes over Dbl tap...Retreat will never be an option.

I visualize moving in as close as possible keeping my weapon trained on the coward as I move. In this situation I would want to be as close as possible to minimize the risk of a missed target. If I'm noticed then it will be time to squeeze off the shot without hesitation, but hopefully I can get close enough for a head shot...The .357 I carry would very likely exit any soft tissue shot and continue on to cause more victims in such a crowded invrionment.

I have been seriously considering the purchase of a lighter, more compact pistol in a .380 caliber...So like you I could likely find myself underpowered, but I would also worry (a little) less about over penetration and empty the clip center mass.

Crpdeth

Pistolenschutze · 02-23-2007, 05:24 PM

In that scenerio there is simply no question: shoot, and shoot to kill, if it is possible to get something close to a clear shot. Even increased risk to bystanders would, I feel, be justified since the perp is already shooting at innocent people. In such a situation the most likely weapon for me to have available would be either a Smith 637 in .38 special +P or a Glock 33 in .357 Sig.

AL MOUNT · 02-23-2007, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crpdeth

The .357 I carry

If I was carrying my 44.mag Model 29, I could run backerds a mite

turn and still take the dudes head off.

I love that damn gun,

accurate as hell and would be like gettin hit with a sewer lid going Mach 3......

Ole Dirty Harry weren't no fool......

berto64 · 02-23-2007, 09:19 PM

I agree with you folks. I would have to try and take the BG out by whatever event presents itself.

durk · 02-23-2007, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AL MOUNT

If I was carrying my 44.mag Model 29, I could run backerds a mite

turn and still take the dudes head off.

I love that damn gun,

accurate as hell and would be like gettin hit with a sewer lid going Mach 3......

Ole Dirty Harry weren't no fool......

LMAO, I loved every bit of that!!

southernshooter · 02-23-2007, 09:30 PM

I am gonna empty my gun in him, What I am fixing to say is something I made my mind up to a long time ago. If a situation like that ever happened, I will go out fighting If I am gonna die in a situation like that I am gonna take the perp with me. I would rather die fighting than to risk that @#$@#$ shooting some innocent kids
I know it sounds strange but that is something I made my mind up to a long time ago

catfish83861 · 02-23-2007, 10:47 PM

All BS aside. I don't think any male who considers himself a man could do less than attempt to terminate the perp

.Should my family be there I would attempt to get them as far from the perp as I could then make sure that he/she could never harm anyone again. No mater what the means!!! One Life for ten, maybe more. Not a question of if,only how

. I would hope if I was one of the first to die, someone would do justice for those that went with me.Now if it was your baby or wife in the mall??? Wouldn't you do the same??

Well each and every one of those people have families or friends!!! Your call!!! catfish

Light Coat · 02-23-2007, 11:15 PM

Melvin Simon and Associates wishes that you do not protect yourself or anyone else on their property. Them the guys that own all the shopping centers. They want you to leave your piece outside; in fact, off their property period. So, now you will understand my reponse below.

I will grab the mall manager and use them as a human shield to remove the unarmed and innocent from the line of fire. The thug will run out of ammo sooner or later. If I were armed; noone would be jealous of the third eye I would give him for free; I'd even write off the ammo as a donation on my taxes.

pickenup · 02-23-2007, 11:32 PM

Given the scenario that you have set up, where the BG has already fired/killed people, there is really no other choice. I would be more concerned on how I was going to exit the building, without being stopped, after ventilating his cranium multiple times.

Laying out my path to the nearest police station, where I could walk into a calm (well....as calm as they get) police station accompanied by my lawyer, to discuss the events of the day. I would not want to still be in the mall, with a smoking gun, when the police first arrive there.

glocknut · 02-24-2007, 12:25 AM

Too many factors to give a "one size fitts all" answer. Are they wearing body armor? How many Psychos doing the masacre... Distance... Size....
on and on... many factors.

If my daughter were with me my first priority would be getting her somewhere to hide behind, and then i would attempt to get a good shot
at the psycho in question.

mike
gn

Bruce FLinch · 02-24-2007, 12:35 AM

Guess it would have a lot of depends... If I was alone or with the family. I sure wouldn't be carrying here in Kal @ the local mall. But if I was alone, I would hide out of his sight as best I could & bushwhack the sob best I could w/ whatever I could get my hands on or use my folding knive. Sure as heck wouldn't be hidin in a corner messin my pants waiting to die. If I'm gonna go, then go down gambling & fighting.

White Hawk · 02-24-2007, 01:05 AM

I'm single with no kids, and have lived a full life. Not that I'd give the BG much of a chance at ending it. It wouldn't matter whether I had my Sig P220, P230, or my trusty old Browning Hi-Power, I'd try to get a clean shot and save some innocent lives if at all possible.

Mr. BG, meet Mr. Hydra Shok.

AL MOUNT:
...sewer lid going Mach 3...

Now that's fine literature!

dbl tap · 02-24-2007, 09:04 AM

I new you guys wouldn't let me down or the people in that mall. My hate for this type of psycho walking the face of the earth would come to the surface. Then I would bring my moderate amount of training to bear and introduce him to Mr. Corbon...!!!!
I always try to carry my Glock 19 in any type of higher risk area. Hopefully I would have it rather than the Kel-Tec 380.
Remember Stallone's movie "Cobra" Just before he capped the psycho in the grocery store. The bg said he had some demands. Cobra said, "I don't negotiate with psychos" Then the best line ever uttered in a movie. "Your a disease (pause) and I'm the cure!!!!" Bang, Bang, Bang!!!

You 1911 fans would love it. If you haven't seen it, you should.... Dbl Tap

Crpdeth · 02-24-2007, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Light Coat

They want you to leave your piece outside; in fact, off their property period.

Oh well...It is concealed.

Crpdeth

Marlin · 02-24-2007, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pistolenschutze

In that scenerio there is simply no question: shoot, and shoot to kill, if it is possible to get something close to a clear shot. Even increased risk to bystanders would, I feel, be justified since the perp is already shooting at innocent people....

I agree with Pistol although my weapon would likely be either a Browning Hi-Power with 9mm+p ammo or a Springfield 1911. My weapon is concealed in my oxygen case. The clue is CONCEALED. If it is properly concealed, no one is the wiser until you use it.....

Pistolenschutze · 02-24-2007, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marlin

I agree with Pistol although my weapon would likely be either a Browning Hi-Power with 9mm+p ammo or a Springfield 1911. My weapon is concealed in my oxygen case. The clue is CONCEALED. If it is properly concealed, no one is the wiser until you use it.....

Marlin, more and more it seems we think alike on many things.

I certainly can't argue with you on the Hi-Power, likely the safest, most reliable 9mm anyone ever devised. I've shot them quite a lot, but don't presently own one. They're hard to find these days at a price us "po' folks" can afford.

Personally, I like the 9mm and often carry a Steyr M9 with +Ps when I'm wearing clothing sufficient to conceal it well.

berto64 · 02-25-2007, 12:38 AM

I would keeel heeem!

Huck Finn · 02-25-2007, 01:45 AM

Well... you guys may not like this answer, but I'm being as honest as I can having never been in this situation. If my wife was with me, my main goal would be to get her out of the mall in as quick and safe a way as possible. PERIOD. Once we were safely outside, would I go back in (assuming I was armed), I can't sit here and with 100% honesty say I would. I'd have to be there to really know.

Now if I were there alone I would make every effort to take out the shooter. I wouldn't shout any commands or warning. If I had the chance to shoot him in the back (if I was sure he was the shooter), I'd take it and never feel bad about shooting a man in the back.

Pistolenschutze · 02-25-2007, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huck Finn

Well... you guys may not like this answer, but I'm being as honest as I can having never been in this situation.

I, for one, do not think your answer is unreasonable or or short-sighted at all, Huck. I doubt that any of us would not think first, and above all else, of protecting our loved ones if they were at risk. And trust me, you're right, NO one really knows how he will react in a deadly force situation until he's actually in one. One can think it through in advance, train, and mentally prepare--and those are all good things--but until the bullets start flying, it is not possible to truly know. And yeah, you're right about giving no warning too. That, "stop or I'll shoot" crap is for the movies. If you have to shoot, you do it without warning, and you take every advantage you can. It's not a game where the looser can "reset" and try again.

Just my $.02 worth.

cec · 02-25-2007, 01:33 PM

I would like to say that I would take the "manly" approach and attempt to take the person out.

However, I know that really I would be scared out of my mind if I was armed or not. My first thought would be to get the hell out of there, making sure whoever I was with got out as well. If the person turned on me or the people I was with, then yes I would take matters into my own hands.

My reasons for not engaging unless I have to are not based on a lack of courage, but rather a concession to the times we live in.

In the case where I am not in direct danger, if I took a shot and managed to actually kill the perp, then I would be sued by the family of the psycho, the people in the mall who I might of hit, and possibly come up on charges myself from the officers responding. The mall may even try legal action because I brought my own gun in.

If I only wounded him, then I would be sued to cover his medical expenses. Then all of the other lawsuits.

Even if the person (using the term loosely) aimed the gun at me and yelled "I am going to shoot you now" and I shot him, I would be on uneasy legal footing because I should have run away. Then again, I would be alive and he wouldn't be so lucky.

Kind of a depressing answer, but it comes down to if I am in mortal danger then I would attempt take him out and deal with the outcome. Otherwise remove myself from the situation. A sad statement and one that a few years ago would have been unthinkable.

dbl tap · 02-25-2007, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cec

In the case where I am not in direct danger, if I took a shot and managed to actually kill the perp, then I would be sued by the family of the psycho, the people in the mall who I might of hit, and possibly come up on charges myself from the officers responding. The mall may even try legal action because I brought my own gun in.

CEC, Has it really gotten that bad where a psycho or his family can sue for injuring/killing him. I have to believe that a man shooting innocent people would be fair game. In a posted or unposted mall. How could you possibly find a judge or jury that would consider that

Say it ain't so.

Dbl Tap

cec · 02-25-2007, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbl tap

CEC, Has it really gotten that bad where a psycho or his family can sue for injuring/killing him. I have to believe that a man shooting innocent people would be fair game. In a posted or unposted mall. How could you possibly find a judge or jury that would consider that

Say it ain't so.

Dbl Tap

Assuming that there is no sarcasm in your question

then it has gotten that bad.

If the Police Officers can be sued for doing their job, then what chance do I have even acting in the best interest of the public.

My other line of thought was what of the responding officer? You have a report of shots fired, you run into the mall as see a two men with a gun, can you really take the time to figure out who is the psycho and who is the concerned citizen?

02-23-2007, 04:16 PM	#1
dbl tap Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Tampa, fl Posts: 14	psyco scenario, what would you do? It seems every week we hear of a psycho waking up hating the world and going into a crowded place and open firing. The first I recall and most famous would be the Luby's cafeteria in Texas 1991. What would you do if you found yourself in a mall and some bg opens up with a large caliber semi auto pistol? For the sake of discussion you have an avenue of retreat. But, the bg is shooting freely at people. Personally, if I had a clear shot from cover, I would take the shot. If he returned direct fire, I would retreat. As I have three young kids and a wife. If I was a single guy I would shoot it out to save as many other people as possible. Another factor would be whether I had my Glock 19 or my 90% of the time carry weapon Kel-Tec 380. I can fire the Glock accurately from 3 times the range with twice the ammo capacity also. It's tough to say what I would do typing here at my computer. I might possibly be so POed that I bring all of my training to bear on the guy and try to take him out... Any thoughts? Dbl Tap -->

02-23-2007, 04:59 PM	#2
AL MOUNT Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Cleaning my Thompson in The Foothills of the Ozark Mountains Posts: 3,108	Re: psyco scenario, what would you do? No brag...just fact....... Two days ago, Feb. 21st, was the 39th anniversary of being shot in the leg by an NVA soldier, near Hue during the Tet offensive of 1968. My point being, is that I've always felt I was living on "Borrowed time' ever since. Without thinking twice, I would try to approach, preferably from the rear & un-noticed. Draw my .380, (wishing like hell I had carried my 1911 that day..... ) Take a slow 2 handed aim, never uttering a word of warning, mind you... And try to kill the sum-bitch stone dead.... But that's just the kind of swell fellar that I am..... __________________ 501st Parachute Infantry Regiment 101st Airborne Division Vietnam 67-68

02-23-2007, 05:08 PM	#3
catfish83861 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: North Idaho Posts: 2,019	Re: psyco scenario, what would you do? Al, you can be my backup anytime,my thoughts exactly on the outcome.I however have not had the experience of being shot.YET. Hope to pass on that experience. catfish

02-23-2007, 05:16 PM	#4
Crpdeth Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Location: Location Contributor Posts: 8,247	Re: psyco scenario, what would you do? I think instinct takes over Dbl tap...Retreat will never be an option. I visualize moving in as close as possible keeping my weapon trained on the coward as I move. In this situation I would want to be as close as possible to minimize the risk of a missed target. If I'm noticed then it will be time to squeeze off the shot without hesitation, but hopefully I can get close enough for a head shot...The .357 I carry would very likely exit any soft tissue shot and continue on to cause more victims in such a crowded invrionment. I have been seriously considering the purchase of a lighter, more compact pistol in a .380 caliber...So like you I could likely find myself underpowered, but I would also worry (a little) less about over penetration and empty the clip center mass. Crpdeth __________________ Our greatest pretenses are built up not to hide the evil and the ugly in us, but our emptiness. The hardest thing to hide is something that is not there. ~Eric Hoffer

02-23-2007, 05:24 PM	#5
Pistolenschutze Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 13,094	Re: psyco scenario, what would you do? In that scenerio there is simply no question: shoot, and shoot to kill, if it is possible to get something close to a clear shot. Even increased risk to bystanders would, I feel, be justified since the perp is already shooting at innocent people. In such a situation the most likely weapon for me to have available would be either a Smith 637 in .38 special +P or a Glock 33 in .357 Sig. __________________ --Pistolenschutze (Pistol Shooter)

02-23-2007, 09:19 PM	#7
berto64 VMBB Admin Staff Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Owyhee County, Idaho Contributor Posts: 7,388	Re: psyco scenario, what would you do? I agree with you folks. I would have to try and take the BG out by whatever event presents itself. __________________ Be who you are & say what you will, Those that matter won't mind and those that mind don't matter. I'm a bitter clinger, One Nation Under God.

02-23-2007, 09:30 PM	#9
southernshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Deep South Mississippi Posts: 5,943	Re: psyco scenario, what would you do? I am gonna empty my gun in him, What I am fixing to say is something I made my mind up to a long time ago. If a situation like that ever happened, I will go out fighting If I am gonna die in a situation like that I am gonna take the perp with me. I would rather die fighting than to risk that @#$@#$ shooting some innocent kids I know it sounds strange but that is something I made my mind up to a long time ago __________________ Only you can see this

02-23-2007, 10:47 PM	#10
catfish83861 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: North Idaho Posts: 2,019	Re: psyco scenario, what would you do? All BS aside. I don't think any male who considers himself a man could do less than attempt to terminate the perp .Should my family be there I would attempt to get them as far from the perp as I could then make sure that he/she could never harm anyone again. No mater what the means!!! One Life for ten, maybe more. Not a question of if,only how . I would hope if I was one of the first to die, someone would do justice for those that went with me.Now if it was your baby or wife in the mall??? Wouldn't you do the same?? Well each and every one of those people have families or friends!!! Your call!!! catfish

02-23-2007, 11:15 PM	#11
Light Coat V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Middle of Nowhere, KS Posts: 466	Re: psyco scenario, what would you do? Melvin Simon and Associates wishes that you do not protect yourself or anyone else on their property. Them the guys that own all the shopping centers. They want you to leave your piece outside; in fact, off their property period. So, now you will understand my reponse below. I will grab the mall manager and use them as a human shield to remove the unarmed and innocent from the line of fire. The thug will run out of ammo sooner or later. If I were armed; noone would be jealous of the third eye I would give him for free; I'd even write off the ammo as a donation on my taxes.

02-23-2007, 11:32 PM	#12
pickenup Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains Posts: 6,838	Re: psyco scenario, what would you do? Given the scenario that you have set up, where the BG has already fired/killed people, there is really no other choice. I would be more concerned on how I was going to exit the building, without being stopped, after ventilating his cranium multiple times. Laying out my path to the nearest police station, where I could walk into a calm (well....as calm as they get) police station accompanied by my lawyer, to discuss the events of the day. I would not want to still be in the mall, with a smoking gun, when the police first arrive there. __________________ The gene pool needs chlorine

02-24-2007, 12:25 AM	#13
glocknut Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: THE FORUM MASCOTT... Posts: 12,482	Re: psyco scenario, what would you do? Too many factors to give a "one size fitts all" answer. Are they wearing body armor? How many Psychos doing the masacre... Distance... Size.... on and on... many factors. If my daughter were with me my first priority would be getting her somewhere to hide behind, and then i would attempt to get a good shot at the psycho in question. mike gn __________________ Where O where are you tonight? Why have you gone and left me alone? I searched to world over and a thought i found true love... You met another and PTThhh you were gone....

02-24-2007, 12:35 AM	#14
Bruce FLinch Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bay Point, Kali..aka Gun Point Posts: 5,016	Re: psyco scenario, what would you do? Guess it would have a lot of depends... If I was alone or with the family. I sure wouldn't be carrying here in Kal @ the local mall. But if I was alone, I would hide out of his sight as best I could & bushwhack the sob best I could w/ whatever I could get my hands on or use my folding knive. Sure as heck wouldn't be hidin in a corner messin my pants waiting to die. If I'm gonna go, then go down gambling & fighting. __________________ A bad day @ the Range, is better than a good day @ work.

02-24-2007, 01:05 AM	#15
White Hawk V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 458	Re: psyco scenario, what would you do? I'm single with no kids, and have lived a full life. Not that I'd give the BG much of a chance at ending it. It wouldn't matter whether I had my Sig P220, P230, or my trusty old Browning Hi-Power, I'd try to get a clean shot and save some innocent lives if at all possible. Mr. BG, meet Mr. Hydra Shok. AL MOUNT: ...sewer lid going Mach 3... Now that's fine literature! __________________ Remember the good old days, when everything said "Made In Japan" on it?

02-24-2007, 09:04 AM	#16
dbl tap Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Tampa, fl Posts: 14	Re: psyco scenario, what would you do? I new you guys wouldn't let me down or the people in that mall. My hate for this type of psycho walking the face of the earth would come to the surface. Then I would bring my moderate amount of training to bear and introduce him to Mr. Corbon...!!!! I always try to carry my Glock 19 in any type of higher risk area. Hopefully I would have it rather than the Kel-Tec 380. Remember Stallone's movie "Cobra" Just before he capped the psycho in the grocery store. The bg said he had some demands. Cobra said, "I don't negotiate with psychos" Then the best line ever uttered in a movie. "Your a disease (pause) and I'm the cure!!!!" Bang, Bang, Bang!!! You 1911 fans would love it. If you haven't seen it, you should.... Dbl Tap

02-25-2007, 12:38 AM	#20
berto64 VMBB Admin Staff Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Owyhee County, Idaho Contributor Posts: 7,388	Re: psyco scenario, what would you do? I would keeel heeem! __________________ Be who you are & say what you will, Those that matter won't mind and those that mind don't matter. I'm a bitter clinger, One Nation Under God.

02-25-2007, 01:45 AM	#21
Huck Finn Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 834	Re: psyco scenario, what would you do? Well... you guys may not like this answer, but I'm being as honest as I can having never been in this situation. If my wife was with me, my main goal would be to get her out of the mall in as quick and safe a way as possible. PERIOD. Once we were safely outside, would I go back in (assuming I was armed), I can't sit here and with 100% honesty say I would. I'd have to be there to really know. Now if I were there alone I would make every effort to take out the shooter. I wouldn't shout any commands or warning. If I had the chance to shoot him in the back (if I was sure he was the shooter), I'd take it and never feel bad about shooting a man in the back. __________________ Tiocfaidh Ár Lá ! "Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest"

02-25-2007, 01:33 PM	#23
cec Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 501	Re: psyco scenario, what would you do? I would like to say that I would take the "manly" approach and attempt to take the person out. However, I know that really I would be scared out of my mind if I was armed or not. My first thought would be to get the hell out of there, making sure whoever I was with got out as well. If the person turned on me or the people I was with, then yes I would take matters into my own hands. My reasons for not engaging unless I have to are not based on a lack of courage, but rather a concession to the times we live in. In the case where I am not in direct danger, if I took a shot and managed to actually kill the perp, then I would be sued by the family of the psycho, the people in the mall who I might of hit, and possibly come up on charges myself from the officers responding. The mall may even try legal action because I brought my own gun in. If I only wounded him, then I would be sued to cover his medical expenses. Then all of the other lawsuits. Even if the person (using the term loosely) aimed the gun at me and yelled "I am going to shoot you now" and I shot him, I would be on uneasy legal footing because I should have run away. Then again, I would be alive and he wouldn't be so lucky. Kind of a depressing answer, but it comes down to if I am in mortal danger then I would attempt take him out and deal with the outcome. Otherwise remove myself from the situation. A sad statement and one that a few years ago would have been unthinkable. __________________ Carpe Jugulum When asked why I wanted my CCW, I was tempted to say "Fishing".