compressed load

[zkovach]

Going through my reloading books...by the way getting the starter kit for xmas... I noticed compressed loads which tell me that the powder must be packed or compressed in the bullet. How do you do that. I am a bit scared as a begineer to try the compressed load. Any advise to ease my nervousness? Do you need a special tool of some sort?

[ggtgary]

It's no biggie. If you have proper loading data it should not be a problem. Your loading press will compress powder the correct amount if you are using the correct measured amount. and proper components. The important thing is not start at the maixmun published load but work up to it, starting with at least 10 percent under maxiimun. If cases are sticky extracting or if primers or cratered then you have too much pressure. That is also the case if your group starts to spread out as you increase the power charge.

[312shooter]

I have never loaded compressed or a maximum load and have never found the need to. When you get to know reloading you will find accuracy is rarely accomplished with a maximum load, and not worth jeopardizing your firearm and yourself. Some powder/bullet combinations may be in that range but chances are its not the best combination.

The term "hot load" has been abused and overated by people thinking when a round is jam packed to the mouth with lots and lots of powder somehow its better...well its not! Anyway your compressed load will only be that when the bullet is seated by the seating die into the case neck far enough that it must displace the powder load by compressing it to some degree. If you are new to reloading its just best to avoid this at first. I'm certain that your manuals probably touch on that somewhere. Use a starting load or damn close to it when you begin reloading, then work up. There's alot to be learned in this fun hobby, just learn it by the book -the trial and error method will lead to an error at some point and thats bad news for you and your gun.

[Gearheadpyro]

So long as the load is listed in a manual you should be ok with a compression load.

I have mixed feelings about them. Compression loads are usually on the hot side, and like 312 Shooter said, that will beat up on your gun and brass more. I too haven't found the need to run something terribly hot, the best accuracy for me is generally somwhere 2-3 grains off of max. On the other hand, If I use a very slow powder then a compression load lets me put more of it in. I use IMR 4350 in some of my .308 Win loads, and they are just ever so lightly compressed. This load is not a hot load because the powder is so slow. The other advantage that some claim with compression loads is that they improve accuracy due to presenting the powder to the flash hole the same every time. I don't have enough experience with them to be able to prove or disprove that.

Whatever you do, just like 312 Shooter said, DO NOT start at a compression load. Start at a beginning load and work up to where you get the best accuracy while watching for pressure signs.

Good luck

[LDBennett]

While compressed loads tend to be full loads and "hot" by nature, there is another problem with compressed loads. Unless the bullet is secure in the case, the pressure from the compression of the powder will push the bullet out in the case over time. In general, a roll crimp into a bullet cannelure is enough to hold the bullet in the case but some bullets don't have cannelures and some don't have to be crimped. We crimp revolver ammo, lever gun ammo, semi-auto rifle ammo. But we normally don't crimp bolt gun ammo. Semi-auto pistol ammo uses a tapper crimp which is less secure.

The "new" twist to crimping ammo is the Lee Factory Crimp dies for both handgun cartridges and rifle cartridges. That does allow almost any cartridge to have crimped in bullets. It can also make the ammo more consistent shot to shot. I recommend using these dies if you want to crimp your cartridge cases on almost any caliber ammo.

In my 20+ years of extensive reloading, I have never found it necessary to use compressed loads for anything I reload for (over 30 different cartridges). Newbies to reloading should not attempt to use compressed loads. Newbies should read and re-read then re-read their manuals until they thoroughly understand the process of reloading. Educated reloaders with common sense rarely if ever make reloading mistakes that can hurt the gun or the shooter. Safety first!

LDBennett

[carver]

A copmpressed load indicates that you have only that powder to work with. Example: .44 Mag using IMR 4227 can be compressed. I have filled the case with IMR 4227, set a bullet on top, and then seated it; compressed load. This is not dangerous with this powder, but is an absolute waste of powder. A lower amount of powder will do the same job, as all the powder will not get burned in a pistol anyway. Try another brand of powder that is faster burning, and you will see better results at a lower cost for reloading.

[Bindernut]

I'll ditto what LD and gearheadpyro said...and also add that in a rifle cartridge, I prefer a load that fills the case to anywhere from 75-95% of it's volume. Very little room for the powder to shuffle around. I don't have any scientific data that this is better, but a uniform presentation of the powder to the primer flash each time is probably more conducive to accuracy by eliminating that variable.

Compressed loads I've usually shied away from since I don't usually load up to the max either. A bit less than a max compressed load is usually in that 90-95% filled volume range and that's what I try to go for.

Also, with a compressed load you need to be aware that different brands (or even different lots) of brass for a specific cartridge might have different internal volumes so a compressed load that is safe in one brand/lot of brass might not be safe in another batch of brass.

For a newbie reloader, I would probably stay away from a compressed load until I had a bit more experience with some of the other variables of reloading...

[LDBennett]

Bindernut:

On the powder floating around inside a too big case, there was a story in a magazine a year or so ago by an guy who instructed some gun related class. One of his parlor tricks he used in the class was shooting two identically loaded handgun cartridges over a Chronograph. One was presented so as all the powder was forward and the other with all the powder rearward. It made a tremendous difference..... detectable and obviously affected the trajectory of the bullet. It was more than a hundred FPS difference, as I remember it. I don't remember the details exactly but it impressed me as to the impact of a little powder in a large case. Of course, he picked the powder he found maximized the effect, and not all powders are impacted equally and some not at all.

LDBennett

[zkovach]

ok thanks for the advice guys i appreciate it!!

[res45]

I've been reloading for 25+ years and never once found a need for a compressed load,in fact my most accurate loads are usually 1 or 2 grs. off the MAX loads. Your intended target want know the difference in FPS.

[steve4102]

Compressed loads are no "Hotter" than any other load. A compressed load is nothing more than loading with a powder that has a burn rate that is a bit slow for cartridge. To get the pressure and velocity up to where they belong ya gotta add powder. Does this make the load "hot" or dangerous. NO, not in the least, as long as you are following published data. Take a look at Hodgdon 30-06 data for example. Lots of loads and several are compressed. Are the compressed loads "Hotter" than the non-compressed loads? NO, running about the same PSI and in many cases running less PSI. Those that jump to the conclusion that "Compression" equals "hot" and "High Pressure" are simply misinformed about what a compressed load really is.

I load for several rifles and if at all possible I shoot for compressed loads every time. Better accuracy and better SD. So, follow your manuals and if it is a compressed load, compress it, it will shoot just fine and I'll bet more accurate than your fast for cartridge non-compressed loads.

Oh I almost forgot. Being compressed does NOT mean that you are loading to the Max published data. There are thousands of excellent compressed loads that are well below published max. Just another reloading myth, that "compressed" mean Max.

[zkovach]

I understand i was just curious because there was some data that the min-max grains. were all over 100% but i understand now . Thanks to all.

[Freebore]

As I am aware of (and my own experience), most compressed loads are usually associated with slower burning powders, which generally provide a full case but still operate within normal pressure ranges. In fact some compressed loads actually run lower than standard pressures because of the progressive burning rates.

[LDBennett]

"Hot" is a relative thing. The intent I had in using it was that, while still a published load, it created more velocity than the starting load. I have worked up loads my rifle liked best and it is rarely the Max load. But I also rarely choose powders that need to be compressed even to get to normal pressures. There are plenty of powders to choose from that will never be compressed in the Max load levels.

Perhaps I am missing out on some loads that are better than mine because I avoid compressed loads but, oh well. Compression of the powder has too many potential pitfalls to go that way, especially for a newbie to reloading. Remember it was a newbie who asked for guidance, not an accomplished reloader with years of experience. The answers here should fit the question asked and who asked it, I would think. We all get to choose how we want to do it but it probably is not a good idea to recommend an advanced reloading technique to a newbie. Down the middle of the road is the best approach for new reloaders. Of course, it is only my opinion and others may have theirs.

LDBennett

[JLA]

Originally Posted by steve4102

Compressed loads are no "Hotter" than any other load. A compressed load is nothing more than loading with a powder that has a burn rate that is a bit slow for cartridge. To get the pressure and velocity up to where they belong ya gotta add powder. Does this make the load "hot" or dangerous. NO, not in the least, as long as you are following published data. Take a look at Hodgdon 30-06 data for example. Lots of loads and several are compressed. Are the compressed loads "Hotter" than the non-compressed loads? NO, running about the same PSI and in many cases running less PSI. Those that jump to the conclusion that "Compression" equals "hot" and "High Pressure" are simply misinformed about what a compressed load really is.

I load for several rifles and if at all possible I shoot for compressed loads every time. Better accuracy and better SD. So, follow your manuals and if it is a compressed load, compress it, it will shoot just fine and I'll bet more accurate than your fast for cartridge non-compressed loads.

Oh I almost forgot. Being compressed does NOT mean that you are loading to the Max published data. There are thousands of excellent compressed loads that are well below published max. Just another reloading myth, that "compressed" mean Max.

Bingo... My only problem with compressed smokeless loads is they sometimes wont ignite and may as well have been loaded without powder. An ideal charge is one that comes close to 90% case capacity. unless of course you seek reduced plinker loads, then you will use a designated powder and a charge density of around 50% case capacity... NOT ALL POWDERS CAN BE USED FOR REDUCED LOADS!!! SOME POWDERS IF LESS THAN RECOMMENDED STARTING IS USED, (MOSTLY RIFLE) WILL CAUSE "DETONATION" FROM TOO MUCH ROOM IN THE CASE... A HIGH PRESSURE SPIKE THAT CAN BE JUST AS DANGEROUS IF NOT MORE DANGEROUS AS AN OVER POWDER CHARGE. Load carefully and mind you recipes

[muddober]

Originally Posted by steve4102

Compressed loads are no "Hotter" than any other load. A compressed load is nothing more than loading with a powder that has a burn rate that is a bit slow for cartridge. To get the pressure and velocity up to where they belong ya gotta add powder. Does this make the load "hot" or dangerous. NO, not in the least, as long as you are following published data. Take a look at Hodgdon 30-06 data for example. Lots of loads and several are compressed. Are the compressed loads "Hotter" than the non-compressed loads? NO, running about the same PSI and in many cases running less PSI. Those that jump to the conclusion that "Compression" equals "hot" and "High Pressure" are simply misinformed about what a compressed load really is.

I load for several rifles and if at all possible I shoot for compressed loads every time. Better accuracy and better SD. So, follow your manuals and if it is a compressed load, compress it, it will shoot just fine and I'll bet more accurate than your fast for cartridge non-compressed loads.

Oh I almost forgot. Being compressed does NOT mean that you are loading to the Max published data. There are thousands of excellent compressed loads that are well below published max. Just another reloading myth, that "compressed" mean Max.

I agree and I also have some pet compressed loads that work very well. I have been reloading for over 50 years and I have dies for about 50 different cartridges from 25 auto to 577 Nitro. As a matter of fact my 577 Nitro load is a compressed load of IMR 4831 behind a 750 grain bullet getting me more velocity than I can get from IMR 3031 with no signs of pressure. My biggest problem with that whole deal is I am getting to old to shoot it because the recoil is unbelievable even in a 12 pound gun.

As LD said if not crimped well compressed loads do have a tendency to grow so one has to be careful from that aspect because they may not fit in the gun, other than that there is no problem.

Ron

[JLA]

.577!!! F that!!!

[312shooter]

Originally Posted by LDBennett

"Hot" is a relative thing.

Remember it was a newbie who asked for guidance, not an accomplished reloader with years of experience. The answers here should fit the question asked and who asked it, I would think. We all get to choose how we want to do it but it probably is not a good idea to recommend an advanced reloading technique to a newbie. Down the middle of the road is the best approach for new reloaders. Of course, it is only my opinion and others may have theirs.

LDBennett

My thoughts exactly!

[Freebore]

As a closing point of interest...all shotshell loads are actually compessed loads (wad pressure). Compressed loads also tend burn with more uniformity.

Best results are usually obtained when you find the right powder (and amount) that provides an even burning rate for the bullet used, bore diameter, and barrel length (on occasion it may be a compressed load).

Amen...

[steve4102]

Originally Posted by LDBennett

Remember it was a newbie who asked for guidance, not an accomplished reloader with years of experience. The answers here should fit the question asked and who asked it, I would think. We all get to choose how we want to do it but it probably is not a good idea to recommend an advanced reloading technique to a newbie. Down the middle of the road is the best approach for new reloaders. Of course, it is only my opinion and others may have theirs.

LDBennett

New reloader or experienced reloader, I see no reason to shy away from compressed loads. Follow the manual and if your choice of powder needs to be compressed, compress it, it's that simple. Nothing unsafe or special about compressing powder. As for COAL growing with compressed loads, maybe an issue with some powders, but I have yet to have a compressed load grow and I use a lot of compressed loads, a lot.

[TERRY MAN]

to steve 4102 dont know that I agree with your logic in regards to compressed loads. i have been using the LEE RELOADING MANUAL and the general consenses is that if you compress the load it can raise pressures to an unacceptable level.I would much prefer to err on the side of caution than have a firearm blow up in my face.through trial and error i have found that you can seat a bullet less deeper in the case and not have any problems chambering the round...regards TERRY MAN:

[steve4102]

Sorry, Compressing powders does not increase pressure as long as there is data to support the load. You should get some other manuals and read up on compressed lads. They are usually more consistent and more accurate.
Lyman manuals are chucked full of "Safe" compressed loads. here is and example, the (+) indicates compressed loads. See and unusually high pressures listed with the compressed loads? No, as a matter of fact many of the compressed loads are lower in pressure than the non-compressed loads.

[TTE]

To the original poster - get 2 or 3 reloading manuals and cross reference the data for whatever cartridge and components you desire to use. If you are using a compressed load, you may need to obtain a drop tube for your funnel.

Good advise was given above, read and reread the manual on how to assemble reloaded ammunition. Make sure you follow the procedures exactly.

Additionally, I think a chronograph is one of the most useful pieces of equipment for reloading. Without one, you have no idea what your reloaded ammo is truly doing, as far as velocity goes. Without one, you're just guessing at the velocity (E.S.& S.D. as well). Additionally, a chronograph will assist you in knowing when you are approaching maximum loads (I can elaborate on this if you want).



Now, I have my own thoughts on some of the other things mentioned here.

Compressed loads can be maximum (or above maximum) loads ! Compressed loads can be far from maximum loads !

It depends on the powder being used. Jack Lott re-chambered my 458 Win Mag to 458 Lott, before there was any ammo available. The loading data he gave me was a starting load of 83.0 grains of 4XXX powder, with a maximum load of 86.0 grains. The starting load was compressed, however in load testing I was able to load past 86.0 grains without signs of pressure (pressure signs at 87.7 grains). With the starting load, the bullets had to be crimped to keep them in place. With the 84.5 and higher loads, if I didn't crimp the bullets in, the bullets would pop out. Yes . . . . at the 86.9 (and above) grain load, the bullets were severely compressing the powder.

As I said, compressed loads can be hot or max loads, or could be quite mild loads, depends on the powder.

I would say, you can take a 218 Bee case and fill it to the case mouth with Retumbo, seat the bullet and it would not be a max pressure load. On the other hand, I wouldn't try the same thing with Bullseye.



Additionally, guys that reload for handguns will/may have a different opinions than guys that reload for rifles.


FYI - I have been reloading for 15+ rlfle and pistol cartridges or 35+ years and never had a misfire (well, once from a factory load, but never from a handload).

So this is my .02 worth.



Note:
I have no control over how anyone interprets my experiences and postings, and being that I am crazy, so is anyone else that takes my advise on reloading anything.