OLD Revolver Smith and Wesson

[Luis Fernando]

Help with this revolver .

Smith & Wesson....... engraved ,gold plated .

Cal 38 SW .

38 Hand ejector Model of 1905....4th change ???????

Here the pics

(If you need more pics,please ask )

[IMG]http:[/IMG]

[IMG]http:[/IMG]

Serial number

[IMG]http:[/IMG]

Number stamp on the barrel 555

[IMG]http:[/IMG]

Thanks

Luis Fernando

[BETH]

its always better with pictures

[valbehaved]

What is the round emblem on the right side of the frame?
Can you post a close-up pic?
Where does it say 'Smith & Wesson" on the revolver?

[22shot]

luis

From the pics; it lloks like you have a S&W M14 K-38 Target Masterpiece (sights; wide trigger and hammer spur); introduced in 1947. 6 or 8 3/8 inch barrel.
There are two versions; double action and single action; the single action being worth about 25% more.
The "K" series I believe are the more sought after of the "modern" S&W's.

That being said; your gun could easily be on the cover of the Shooters Bible!

As to worth; I'm more of a rifle guy; but this is a top example of the S&W engravers art. And it's gold plated with "mother of pearl" grips!

I have no idea of it's value; but a $3,500 "reserve" at auction would not be out of line.

If you include the serial# along with any initials found; I'm sure that some "S&W" members on this site can provide you with more detailed info.

You have a gem.

[Jim K]

There are several things odd about that gun. First, that is almost certainly NOT factory engraving, though it is of good quality. The second is that the gun is much later than the serial number indicates, and the serial number font and size are wrong, which means that the serial number is a fake, possibly applied in place of the original which was removed in the engraving. The sights also are not factory.

It may have been an engraver's project gun, or commissioned by someone who wanted something unique. I hesitate to put a value on it, mostly because of the serial number question. I don't know about Canadian law, but in the US, messing with the serial number on a gun is a serious offense.

Jim

[RJay]

He said it was in 38 S&W, couldn't a Model 14, but I'm away from my books so could be wrong, very beautiful

[Jim K]

Valbehaved has caught the point of what I said about factory engraving. S&W factory engravers never removed or engraved over factory markings. They either worked them into the design or engraved around them. Also, S&W factory engravers always left an unengraved "ring" around the cylinder so the cylinder stop did not smear any of the engraving.

So maybe it is not an S&W at all, but a Taurus or a Spanish copy. I don't think so, but only more pictures or a personal examination would tell for sure. Of course if it is not an S&W, then my previous note about the serial number and the sights would not apply.

Jim

[Luis Fernando]

Originally Posted by Jim K

There are several things odd about that gun. First, that is almost certainly NOT factory engraving, though it is of good quality. The second is that the gun is much later than the serial number indicates, and the serial number font and size are wrong, which means that the serial number is a fake, possibly applied in place of the original which was removed in the engraving. The sights also are not factory.

It may have been an engraver's project gun, or commissioned by someone who wanted something unique. I hesitate to put a value on it, mostly because of the serial number question. I don't know about Canadian law, but in the US, messing with the serial number on a gun is a serious offense.

Jim

Jim K

THIS GUN IS IN MEXICO AT THE MOMENT.

And it does not belong to me.


Luis Fernando

[Luis Fernando]

Originally Posted by valbehaved

What is the round emblem on the right side of the frame?
Can you post a close-up pic?
Where does it say 'Smith & Wesson" on the revolver?

Valbehaved

Here is the pic

[IMG]http:[/IMG]

Luis Fernando

[Luis Fernando]

More pics

[IMG]http:[/IMG]

[IMG]http:[/IMG]

[IMG]http:[/IMG]

Luis Fernando

[Luis Fernando]

Example of engraving by Smith and Wesson

Top

38/44 Outdoorsman in 38 Spl (High Speed)

Manufactured in 1939 or 1940 (SN58XXX), it has a 6 1/2" barrel, full, beautiful engraving, and is in Excellent Condition.

[IMG]http:[/IMG]

Luis Fernando

[22shot]

luis

Digging a little deeper..

It is not a Llama .38 Deluxe Martial (no vent rib or ejector shroud) BUT it does have what Llama calls "Gold Damascend Finish";I have a color photo; your engraving is very similar; if not the same.

As for the sights, trigger and hammer; S&W DID offer "target" options (Shooters Bible;
#16: p.254.)

Taurus made a Model 86 Target Master; very similar except for the shape of the Trigger guard.

Great pics; I wish I had a reference on that bold logo on the rt. side of the gun!
That would do a lot.

I'm working on it!

[Luis Fernando]

More pics..

The owner of this gun said ,that it was belonging to his grandfather.

He told me now, that the front and rear sights,hammer,trigger and latch

have been changed.


[IMG]http:[/IMG]

[IMG]http:[/IMG]

[IMG]http:[/IMG]

[IMG]http:URL=http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2507558910103886237KjEJdW][/URL][/IMG]

Luis Fernando

[Bill DeShivs]

That is not a damascened finish. It's gold plate. The engraving and plating are aftermarket. The engraving is fairly crudely executed, though the gun is pretty.

[22shot]

luis

The more pictures you post; the better the chances of the gun being identified.

There is always some static; this being the www; but eventually it will be tuned in!

The pattern on the trigger; the shape of the front sight; and unless the spur on the hammer is 1/2 inch wide; all indicate that these items are NOT "factory target" S&W. Can't get a good look at the rear sight; but it appears that it is "fixed" and not ajustable for windage; so that's another strike.

Now that I've had a closer look at the realationship of the grips to the frame; it is not a "K" frame S&W; I'd be suprised if it is; in fact; a S&W (I just can't find a corralation between all the details on this gun; as thay emerge; and the S&W references I have).

I did turn up a S&W 125th. Anniversary Commemorative; Deluxe Edition (only 50 were made; quite expensive) with that same size monster logo; BUT .45 Colt; ejector shroud; different grips.

So; at ths point; I don't believe it is a genuine S&W.

And; as I have posted; I cannot I.D. that logo; yet.

Could you possibly take another pic of that logo without the glare and a little more shaddow definition to bring out the details?

[Bill DeShivs]

The sights are aftermarket. The rear is adjustable.
The gun is a S&W. The mark is stamped, not engraved into the frame. My guess is that it is a Victory model with a model 14 barrel.

[oscarmayer]

i too suspect it's a rebarreled pre model 10 m&p / victory ? but the fact it is in mexico says alot for the engraving. very very common to have done there . it's wasn't out of the norm to gold plate and engrave even lower end guns. the people there truely loved their pistolas and treated them with get respect.

[Alpo]

Bill, I don't believe Victorys were stamped with the logo. Leastways, mine ain't.

[Gamemaster 760]

End result - if the gun is not a Smith and Wesson and if it is not original - then it is probably put into the shooters category and would be worth somewhere in the range of $500 - $1500 depending on who is selling and who is buying.

As others has said, if you really wanted to get a good price for it, you would take it to a gun auction and sell it. If you wanted to keep it and use it - you would not hurt the value.

Most gun engravers uses some type of stamp or signature to mark their work and I would imagine that if the person that did this work was still alive today - he could identify his work and identify what it was before all the work was done.

A gun auctioneer would probably employ a person to research this item before it was sold to verify it's worth before they auctioned it off.

[Luis Fernando]

Originally Posted by 22shot

luis

The more pictures you post; the better the chances of the gun being identified.


Could you possibly take another pic of that logo without the glare and a little more shaddow definition to bring out the details?

22 Shot

Please go back to post # 9 ....there is a clear logo picture.

Another pic,I hope it will help you.

[IMG]http:[/IMG]

Luis Fernando

[Jim K]

The basic gun appears to be S&W, not Llama or Taurus, but it has been extensively worked over in addition to being engraved and gold plated.

That gun could not have been made prior to 1946, when the extractor rod and barrel changes began. Both are the new type, though the extractor rod does not have left hand threads (1961). The upper side plate screw was deleted c. 1955, so that dates the gun to between 1946 and 1955. The serial number is the wrong size and wrong font, and cannot be a post-WWII serial number; I believe it is bogus.

Also, S&W did not use that kind of hammer and trigger prior to about the 1950's, and the trigger checkering is not like that done by S&W, but those are known changes.

(BTW, is there documentation that the .38/44 in No. 11 was S&W factory engraved?

Jim

[Luis Fernando]

Originally Posted by Jim K

The basic gun appears to be S&W, not Llama or Taurus, but it has been extensively worked over in addition to being engraved and gold plated.

That gun could not have been made prior to 1946, when the extractor rod and barrel changes began. Both are the new type, though the extractor rod does not have left hand threads (1961). The upper side plate screw was deleted c. 1955, so that dates the gun to between 1946 and 1955. The serial number is the wrong size and wrong font, and cannot be a post-WWII serial number; I believe it is bogus.

Also, S&W did not use that kind of hammer and trigger prior to about the 1950's, and the trigger checkering is not like that done by S&W, but those are known changes.

(BTW, is there documentation that the .38/44 in No. 11 was S&W factory engraved?

Jim

Jim

Was a misinformation.

They are not .....S&W factory engraved .

Those guns were engraved by : Michael Edward Gouse


Luis Fernando

[22shot]

Luis
Thanks for the pic; I'm working on it!

I'm beginig to agree with JIm K as to the origin of this gun; a S&W like revolver... Must have gone over the pics a hundred times; wearing out the pages in my limited library.
Because of your post (and gun) I've even ordered more reference works!

Your gun ID is quite a challange.

Here's what it is so far;

Your revolver is like a S&W "K" frame revolver; but there are "issues":

The barrel is ribbed; no biggie; but these ribs slope up at the muzzle; forming a ramp for the front blade sight; which is dovetailed into it.
The barrel of the S&W K38 is ribbed also; but it is flat to the muzzle. The S&W K38 front sight is "ramped" and is fastened to the flat at the muzzle.
As posted ; it could have been re-barreled; possible, but not probable; follow the barrel rib to the top of the frame; and it trancends perfectly to the ribbed frame.

I believe this barrel is original to it's frame.

And then the grips; not S&W "K" frame style.
A mystery at this point .

Under the barrel; at the frame; there appears what to be a stamped "555"?

[Bill DeShivs]

The S&W stamping looks larger because it has had a circle cut around the outside of it.

[Luis Fernando]

Originally Posted by 22shot

Under the barrel; at the frame; there appears what to be a stamped "555"?

[IMG]http:URL=http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2240155800103886237WHZnXT][/URL][/IMG]


Luis Fernando