Call for Action - Hobby Rocketry - The Firearms Forum

JohnK3 · 07-22-2003, 10:03 AM

The following article is quoted from the RocketryOnLine Website, http://www.rocketryonline.com

While it's not strictly firearms related, it IS freedom-related. The ATF has been spreading disinformation in an attempt to maintain their stranglehold on a hobby that's been practiced safely for over 40 years. If you live in New York or New Jersey, please consider helping the Hobby Rocketry community.

We're all fighting for the same thing: an end to government meddling.

(ROL Newswire) -- Mark Bundick, president of the National Association of Rocketry recently sent out the following call for political action:

= = =

IMPORTANT: We need members from New York and New Jersey to send letters to their Senators as outlined below as soon as possible. These letters are designed to assist our legislative effort to secure an unregulated future for sport rocketry.

Members from other states should NOT take action at this time.

= = =

Senators Chuck Schumer (D-NY) and Frank Lautenburg (D-NJ) have placed "holds" on S.724, the Senate bill introduced by Sen. Mike Enzi designed to provide some limited relief for hobby rocketry. While the bill as amended in the Senate Judiciary Committee is far from perfect, we need to get it voted out of the Senate so we can bring that process to close, for the time being, and focus our efforts on getting a better bill moving in the House of Representatives. As such, we believe letters from New York and New Jersey residents to their Senators will be helpful in removing the "holds," and we are asking that you send letters by fax to their offices as soon as possible.

Attached below is a sample letter to either Senator.

The letter should not be copied word for word, but is designed to provide some guidance as to contents. Please adapt this draft to your own situation and experience, and please remain polite and respectful toward the Senators. Please do NOT specifically reference them having a "hold" on the bill.

You can mail or fax your letter to:

NEW YORK MEMBERS NEW JERSEY MEMBERS
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Sen. Charles E. Schumer Sen. Frank R. Lautenburg
313 Hart Senate Office Building 825 A Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510 Washington, DC 20510
Fax: 202-228-3027 Fax: 202-228-4054

Mark B. Bundick, President
National Association of Rocketry

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

SAMPLE LETTER:

PLEASE USE THIS SAMPLE AS A GUIDELINE AND DO NOT COPY WORD FOR WORD.

BE SURE TO INCLUDE YOUR NAME, ADDRESS AND DAYTIME PHONE NUMBER.

BE SURE TO SIGN YOUR LETTER.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Dear Senator

As a constituent and hobby rocketry enthusiast, I have become aware that you may have some concerns with S. 724, a bill originally introduced by Sen. Mike Enzi and for which a substituted was offered in Committee by Sens. Hatch and Kohl. That bill is now awaiting Senate floor action.

I am also aware that shortly before the bill was brought before the Judiciary Committee, the Department of Justice sent a letter to Sen. Hatch offering their viewpoints on the bill. That letter contains numerous factual and scientific errors, including assertions that APCP rocket fuel has been used to make explosive devices, and that hobby rockets could be used to attack aircraft or land targets up to five miles away.

These allegations have no basis in fact or science. APCP propellant is not an explosive and cannot be easily converted to bomb-making material, and hobby rockets cannot be used to accurately or effectively attack air or ground targets. No examples of any such use, or attempted use, exist.

A recent National Research Council study "Containing the Threat from Illegal Bombings" listed the top 29 common explosive and precursor chemicals that have a history of criminal use. The report did not list APCP, or recommend controls on it or rocket motors.

Furthermore, hobby rockets have long-burning motors and do not have sophisticated guidance systems, making them wholly inaccurate as weapons against air or surface targets. The U.S. government tried in the 1940s to develop just such a system and it failed totally and was abandoned. Hobby rockets are designed to go straight up into the air and float back to earth under a parachute. It is already illegal to add a dangerous payload or guidance system of any kind, not to mention that such efforts would require a level of sophistication generally possessed only by government agencies.

Put simply, the DOJ position fails any test of actual rocket science, and appears designed only to cause unnecessary fear and additional regulation of a safe, educational hobby enjoyed by tens of thousands of people across America, including hundreds in New York/New Jersey. Hobby rocketry products and activities are already well-regulated nationally under safety codes of the National Fire Protection Association, the Consumer Products Safety Commission (prohibiting the sale of larger motors to non-adults), the U.S. Department of Transportation (determining detonability and regulating transportation) and the Federal Aviation Administration (regulating rocket launches).

During the last 40 years, these organizations and the hobby rocket community have worked together to establish and enforce a common national safety code, rigorous technical and safety certification standards for hobby rocket motors, and proficiency certifications that are required for adult hobbyists before they can purchase larger hobby rocket motors. Hobby rocketry, and its safeguards, was developed specifically to ensure that a safe means exists for students and hobbyists to build and fly rockets in a manner that does not pose any threat to public health and safety.

The substitute S. 724 will exempt certain amounts of the non-detonable (non-explosive) propellant materials used in hobby rocket motors while leaving in place necessary and legitimate protections against the possession of dangerous weapons and true explosives. This simple approach will not create a new opportunity for terrorists to access devices or materials that can be used as weapons or explosive, but it will preserve a hobby that has a proven safety record and tremendous educational and scientific value.

I urge you to allow the substitute S 724 to be voted out of the Senate.

Sincerely,

Source: National Association of Rocketry (NAR)

FN_Project90 · 07-22-2003, 11:38 AM

I think it is just ridiculous. Hobby rockets used to attack aircraft, give me a freaking break, WHO HAS THAT MUCH TIME ON THEIR HANDS! Why can't people with that much free time to think this stuff up do something useful, like end hunger, or go make me some pancakes, or I will gladly let them wash my car and wax it, and I pay well. Thats what senators and presidential candidates should have to do, wash cars for campaign money. If they want my money they can earn it.

1952Sniper · 07-22-2003, 11:48 AM

Hey, here's a thought. Slingshots *might* be used by terrorists to bring down aircraft. I'm sure that if they launch a cherry bomb into the impellers of a jet engine, it would bring the plane down.

LET'S BAN SLINGSHOTS!

It doesn't matter that the idea is preposterous. It doesn't matter that no one in their right mind would even try it. It doesn't matter that it probably couldn't be done. The fact that it *might* happen is surely cause for banning slingshots. After all, that logic works so well with everything else these days, doesn't it?

FN_Project90 · 07-22-2003, 12:50 PM

well I might walk up to a polictian and kick him in the nuts, so we should take testicles away from all politicians.
I guess I just have more common sense than I thought after all

JohnK3 · 07-22-2003, 12:58 PM

Well, using the same logic that most CongressCritters use:

According to an Internet report, a man died from his own flatulence. This proves that flatulence can be deadly. Therefore, a terrorist could conceivably use flatulence in an attack upon our nation. Since beans have been known to cause flatulence, beans must be registered with the government and special taggant chemicals inserted in all the beans to enable the BATFEB (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, Explosives and Beans) to trace where the beans came from and who bought them.

If you are a convicted felon, you will not be able to purchase beans, nor get your FPFUP (Flatulence Producing Food Users Permit). No-one will be able to purchase more than one 12 oz. can of beans at a time and may not store more than 6 cans in their pantry without building a BM (Bean Magazine). Cans larger than 12 oz. require a HFPFUP (High-Flatulence Producing Food User's Permit) in order to purchase.

If you sell beans, you must purchase a FPFDP (Dealer's Permit) and to grow beans you must have a FPFMP (Manufacturer's Permit). [hmmm...might need to change that to FFPL - Federal Flatulence Production License for growers)

Meanwhile, in order to discourage Bean usage, children will no longer be allowed to sing the "Bean Song":

Beans, Beans
Good for the heart.
The more you eat,
The more you fart.
The more you fart,
the better you feel.
That's why I eat beans every meal!

Beans, Beans
the Magical Fruit.
The more you eat,
The more you toot.
The more you toot,
The better you feel.
That's why I eat beans every meal!

FN_Project90 · 07-22-2003, 03:16 PM

we should also outlaw, keys, computer mice (because if swung over they head they can be used as a bludgeon), bottles, full cans, pens, pencils, spatulas, meat grinder, hammers, nails, screw drivers, heavy objects that can be lifted, forks, spoons, paddles (ping pong and other wise), oars, tire irons, wrenchs, alan keys, lighters (cuz you could light a fart), rocks, sticks, can openers, bottle openers (don't need them sicne cans and bottles are outlawed too), keyboards (as they can be used to bash), cds (you could get an edge on one if you tried), chopsticks, chop stick rests, letter openers, belts, suspenders, batons, canes, vaccums, leaf blowers (you could modify one to shoot rocks into planes), lawn mowers (you could use a strap like in "Dead Alive" and run through places dismembering people), chainsaws, drills, light bulbs (they have glass), glass, book ends, guitar stands, condoms (because you could suffocate someone with them if you were to stretch it over the mouth), icecicles (great for stabbing),

hold up, forget that, we should be tied down, with all the tubes in and out, fed by iv, and only allowed to watch friends reruns.

07-22-2003, 10:03 AM	#1
JohnK3 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 1,636	Call for Action - Hobby Rocketry The following article is quoted from the RocketryOnLine Website, http://www.rocketryonline.com While it's not strictly firearms related, it IS freedom-related. The ATF has been spreading disinformation in an attempt to maintain their stranglehold on a hobby that's been practiced safely for over 40 years. If you live in New York or New Jersey, please consider helping the Hobby Rocketry community. We're all fighting for the same thing: an end to government meddling. (ROL Newswire) -- Mark Bundick, president of the National Association of Rocketry recently sent out the following call for political action: = = = IMPORTANT: We need members from New York and New Jersey to send letters to their Senators as outlined below as soon as possible. These letters are designed to assist our legislative effort to secure an unregulated future for sport rocketry. Members from other states should NOT take action at this time. = = = Senators Chuck Schumer (D-NY) and Frank Lautenburg (D-NJ) have placed "holds" on S.724, the Senate bill introduced by Sen. Mike Enzi designed to provide some limited relief for hobby rocketry. While the bill as amended in the Senate Judiciary Committee is far from perfect, we need to get it voted out of the Senate so we can bring that process to close, for the time being, and focus our efforts on getting a better bill moving in the House of Representatives. As such, we believe letters from New York and New Jersey residents to their Senators will be helpful in removing the "holds," and we are asking that you send letters by fax to their offices as soon as possible. Attached below is a sample letter to either Senator. The letter should not be copied word for word, but is designed to provide some guidance as to contents. Please adapt this draft to your own situation and experience, and please remain polite and respectful toward the Senators. Please do NOT specifically reference them having a "hold" on the bill. You can mail or fax your letter to: NEW YORK MEMBERS NEW JERSEY MEMBERS = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Sen. Charles E. Schumer Sen. Frank R. Lautenburg 313 Hart Senate Office Building 825 A Hart Senate Office Building Washington, DC 20510 Washington, DC 20510 Fax: 202-228-3027 Fax: 202-228-4054 Mark B. Bundick, President National Association of Rocketry = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = SAMPLE LETTER: PLEASE USE THIS SAMPLE AS A GUIDELINE AND DO NOT COPY WORD FOR WORD. BE SURE TO INCLUDE YOUR NAME, ADDRESS AND DAYTIME PHONE NUMBER. BE SURE TO SIGN YOUR LETTER. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Dear Senator As a constituent and hobby rocketry enthusiast, I have become aware that you may have some concerns with S. 724, a bill originally introduced by Sen. Mike Enzi and for which a substituted was offered in Committee by Sens. Hatch and Kohl. That bill is now awaiting Senate floor action. I am also aware that shortly before the bill was brought before the Judiciary Committee, the Department of Justice sent a letter to Sen. Hatch offering their viewpoints on the bill. That letter contains numerous factual and scientific errors, including assertions that APCP rocket fuel has been used to make explosive devices, and that hobby rockets could be used to attack aircraft or land targets up to five miles away. These allegations have no basis in fact or science. APCP propellant is not an explosive and cannot be easily converted to bomb-making material, and hobby rockets cannot be used to accurately or effectively attack air or ground targets. No examples of any such use, or attempted use, exist. A recent National Research Council study "Containing the Threat from Illegal Bombings" listed the top 29 common explosive and precursor chemicals that have a history of criminal use. The report did not list APCP, or recommend controls on it or rocket motors. Furthermore, hobby rockets have long-burning motors and do not have sophisticated guidance systems, making them wholly inaccurate as weapons against air or surface targets. The U.S. government tried in the 1940s to develop just such a system and it failed totally and was abandoned. Hobby rockets are designed to go straight up into the air and float back to earth under a parachute. It is already illegal to add a dangerous payload or guidance system of any kind, not to mention that such efforts would require a level of sophistication generally possessed only by government agencies. Put simply, the DOJ position fails any test of actual rocket science, and appears designed only to cause unnecessary fear and additional regulation of a safe, educational hobby enjoyed by tens of thousands of people across America, including hundreds in New York/New Jersey. Hobby rocketry products and activities are already well-regulated nationally under safety codes of the National Fire Protection Association, the Consumer Products Safety Commission (prohibiting the sale of larger motors to non-adults), the U.S. Department of Transportation (determining detonability and regulating transportation) and the Federal Aviation Administration (regulating rocket launches). During the last 40 years, these organizations and the hobby rocket community have worked together to establish and enforce a common national safety code, rigorous technical and safety certification standards for hobby rocket motors, and proficiency certifications that are required for adult hobbyists before they can purchase larger hobby rocket motors. Hobby rocketry, and its safeguards, was developed specifically to ensure that a safe means exists for students and hobbyists to build and fly rockets in a manner that does not pose any threat to public health and safety. The substitute S. 724 will exempt certain amounts of the non-detonable (non-explosive) propellant materials used in hobby rocket motors while leaving in place necessary and legitimate protections against the possession of dangerous weapons and true explosives. This simple approach will not create a new opportunity for terrorists to access devices or materials that can be used as weapons or explosive, but it will preserve a hobby that has a proven safety record and tremendous educational and scientific value. I urge you to allow the substitute S 724 to be voted out of the Senate. Sincerely, Source: National Association of Rocketry (NAR) -->

07-22-2003, 11:38 AM	#2
FN_Project90 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA, USA Posts: 803	I think it is just ridiculous. Hobby rockets used to attack aircraft, give me a freaking break, WHO HAS THAT MUCH TIME ON THEIR HANDS! Why can't people with that much free time to think this stuff up do something useful, like end hunger, or go make me some pancakes, or I will gladly let them wash my car and wax it, and I pay well. Thats what senators and presidential candidates should have to do, wash cars for campaign money. If they want my money they can earn it. __________________ Things n' Stuff

07-22-2003, 12:50 PM	#4
FN_Project90 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA, USA Posts: 803	well I might walk up to a polictian and kick him in the nuts, so we should take testicles away from all politicians. I guess I just have more common sense than I thought after all __________________ Things n' Stuff

07-22-2003, 03:16 PM	#6
FN_Project90 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA, USA Posts: 803	we should also outlaw, keys, computer mice (because if swung over they head they can be used as a bludgeon), bottles, full cans, pens, pencils, spatulas, meat grinder, hammers, nails, screw drivers, heavy objects that can be lifted, forks, spoons, paddles (ping pong and other wise), oars, tire irons, wrenchs, alan keys, lighters (cuz you could light a fart), rocks, sticks, can openers, bottle openers (don't need them sicne cans and bottles are outlawed too), keyboards (as they can be used to bash), cds (you could get an edge on one if you tried), chopsticks, chop stick rests, letter openers, belts, suspenders, batons, canes, vaccums, leaf blowers (you could modify one to shoot rocks into planes), lawn mowers (you could use a strap like in "Dead Alive" and run through places dismembering people), chainsaws, drills, light bulbs (they have glass), glass, book ends, guitar stands, condoms (because you could suffocate someone with them if you were to stretch it over the mouth), icecicles (great for stabbing), hold up, forget that, we should be tied down, with all the tubes in and out, fed by iv, and only allowed to watch friends reruns. __________________ Things n' Stuff

07-22-2003, 11:48 AM	#3
1952Sniper Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 5,138	Hey, here's a thought. Slingshots might be used by terrorists to bring down aircraft. I'm sure that if they launch a cherry bomb into the impellers of a jet engine, it would bring the plane down. LET'S BAN SLINGSHOTS! It doesn't matter that the idea is preposterous. It doesn't matter that no one in their right mind would even try it. It doesn't matter that it probably couldn't be done. The fact that it might happen is surely cause for banning slingshots. After all, that logic works so well with everything else these days, doesn't it?

07-22-2003, 12:58 PM	#5
JohnK3 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 1,636	Well, using the same logic that most CongressCritters use: According to an Internet report, a man died from his own flatulence. This proves that flatulence can be deadly. Therefore, a terrorist could conceivably use flatulence in an attack upon our nation. Since beans have been known to cause flatulence, beans must be registered with the government and special taggant chemicals inserted in all the beans to enable the BATFEB (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, Explosives and Beans) to trace where the beans came from and who bought them. If you are a convicted felon, you will not be able to purchase beans, nor get your FPFUP (Flatulence Producing Food Users Permit). No-one will be able to purchase more than one 12 oz. can of beans at a time and may not store more than 6 cans in their pantry without building a BM (Bean Magazine). Cans larger than 12 oz. require a HFPFUP (High-Flatulence Producing Food User's Permit) in order to purchase. If you sell beans, you must purchase a FPFDP (Dealer's Permit) and to grow beans you must have a FPFMP (Manufacturer's Permit). [hmmm...might need to change that to FFPL - Federal Flatulence Production License for growers) Meanwhile, in order to discourage Bean usage, children will no longer be allowed to sing the "Bean Song": Beans, Beans Good for the heart. The more you eat, The more you fart. The more you fart, the better you feel. That's why I eat beans every meal! Beans, Beans the Magical Fruit. The more you eat, The more you toot. The more you toot, The better you feel. That's why I eat beans every meal!