Cell phones and gas, here is a new one... I now believe...

[jjmitchell60]

All have seen the warning as to using a cell phone around gasoline and many like myself say BS! Well I am a believer now but not just gasoline, diesel fuel as well!!!!! A friend of mine came into a country store near my farm, he has several farmas in the area as well, and he had the skin peeling off his face plus no eyebrows or hair of anykind on his face and the front of his head. I ask him what in the world happened to him. Here is his tale and he is the kind that if he said the sky was falling believe it, he is to be believed because he will not lie at all to no one.

He said he was bush hogging all day the other day in the 95+ degree heat. Now he has a nice size NH 4x4 tractor with a 15' bat wing mower. Said it was around 10PM when he came in and went to diesel up the tractor so as to go back at it the next day at dawn. He pulled up to the pump at his barn, put the nozzle in the tank, started fueling up with diesel, and his cell phone in his shirt pocket rang. He said he pulled it out of his pocket and it rang just as he went to anwser it. After that all he rememebrs is a huge flash, a burning on his face, him falling back to the ground, and then getting up off the ground. His cell phone was 30 feet behind him, the tractor was blackened around the fuel tank area, and his face hurt like he!!. He shut the pump down, crawled up into his tractor, looked in the mirror, and said he saw no hair on his face, his face was as red as it could be with flesh hanging off under his eyes on his cheek. He went next door to his brother's house who rushed him to the ER. He has 2nd and light 3rd degree burns to his face and light 2nd degree burns to the hand that had held his cell phone. The cell phone is TOAST! Seems the fumes from fueling up combined with the heat off the tank (the tractor was very hot being he had a full day in of bushogging) and they said at the ER that most lilely the heat from the motor heated up the fuel tank thus causing the fumes to be more volitile! Now if you have used diesel lately, it is so weak you have to dang near use a propane tourch to set it on fire but it sure did explode in my friends face.

SO I am now a believer as to gas but also as to diesel fuel and no cell phone while filling up with EITHER!

[bobski]

i dont buy it.
i think the phone was just a coincidence to other factors.
we always grounded jets when we refueled them.
do you ground your tractor? i know a lot of truckers do.
odds are it was static electricity.

[dad2thebone]

I've used my cell while putting both gas and diesel in annd never had a problem. Hmm either im lucky or.......

[carver]

Mythbusters did a show on this, and it turned out to be another busted myth! Cell phones don't cause fires when refueilng!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeRJkde7iHo

[bobski]

but it is true...people that use cell phones do get brain damage.

[Wags]

I call BS.

Diesel, needing very high tempratures to ignite, wouldn't go off with a supposed spark from a cell phone (local FD uses a road flare to ignite when training).

[68c15]

I read the story differently. the tank was empty and very warm. he started to refuel so the fuel entering displaced hot fumes. his phone being placed in communicate mode created a spark. I can see it happening.

something to remember is that a device which transmits radio waves is actually sending electricity into the air.

[jack404]

and from me

i think its a combo with a phone as a enabler , the mythbusters tests where busted BY UCLA who put the phone in a plad shirt and had vibrate as well as ring enabled , the highly charged phone when a call came in added a spike to the static created by the vibrations and they where able to get sparks off it

any time you get a static spark thats ignition for vapour ..

while the phone itself wont spark

when grabbed or moved it CAN discharge as any charged plastic item can , its just physic's paper can spark wood too , ( the coatings on wood are what holds the charge )

plastic hold charges well until the release and they do that well too

some capacitors for micro electronics are just plastics ..

it is possible , get a ugg boot and put your ipod in and slide it up and down then go to a earthed item and almost touch the earthed item with the ipod , you'll get a spark , but you risk frying your ipod ...

if a ipod can do it why not a phone?

its the conditions around the devise that create the situation , not just the devise ..

i get zapped off my rifle when wearing the wrong gear and walking through wheat stubble

i'll walk around wheat now if i got rubber soles on

first thing you touch after crossing i always get zapped , fence tree etc hate it

[howlnmad]

I'll go along with the static charge theory but not the actual use of the phone causing it. The hot fuel return from the engine and a low tank level will give plenty of fumes.

[bobski]

its not like a welding arch is going on inside a phone. what we talking...a little current?
i can see it now, cell phones being so powerful sparks shoot out the body as they are being used.
right.

[jack404]

hey bobski , walk on carpet in socks then touch the metal window or stove

that little spark can be 800 degree's , NO BS

how much to ignite fuel vapour ? 400 ?

[Country101]

I will tell you that the fuel being hot makes ahuge differance in ignition. We trained on putting out diesel fires at the fire station. To get the fire started in a shallow pan initially a lighter was used and it took a good while for it to catch and it didnt spread just real fast. After we had put it out several times and the temp of the remaining diesel had risen, it took very little to get the whole pan engulfed and raging. And I have driven enough tractors to know that that fuel tanks takes quite a bit of heat from the engine, so the fuel is plenty warm to make it easy to start.

That said, I believe it to be more static than the phone. The phone was just incidental.

[carver]

Jack, can you post a link to the UCLA test? I can't find it.

[jack404]

i'll see if i can dig it up ..

[cpttango30]

This is a myth with new cell phones.

Maybe with older flip type phones that used to have metal contacts. No phone made today has that anymore. Even more so with modern smart phones.

[hstout1143]

A nearly empty hot tank with a lot of room for fumes would make a huge difference.

[Old Grump]

Originally Posted by hstout1143

A nearly empty hot tank with a lot of room for fumes would make a huge difference.

Especially if it was a low humidity day along with it being hot.

[jjmitchell60]

While I do not subscribe to the Church of the Mythbusters, I did see a segment where a lady firefighter had a bumper from a burning car EXPLODE and break her leg. It was seen by her captain, car owner, and several other fire fighters. Now the gods called the Mythbusters tried to recreate it and could not thus they called it busted. They even talked to the firefighter and her captain yet because they could not recreate it they called it busted. Remember the old saying, lightening ONLY strikes the same place ONCE! Now how many people have taken a random dollar bill in, bought a lottery ticket, and won the jackpot? I bet if th gods of the Mythbusters tried to do it they would say it was a busted myth YET it is done a lot.

Bottom line, the phone rang, the engiine was very hot being it was a 95+ degree day, he was looking into teh tank as he filled it so as to know when to stop, cell rang, he went tpo answer, there was a flash, he has 2nd an d3rd degree burns, tank had black soot like on it, and the cell phone was 30 feet from him most likely from him throwing it when the flas went off as he answered it while putting diesel fuel in his NH tractor that was hot and almost empty of fuel.
So for you "experts" in cell phones and fuels as well as the gods you worship called the Mythbusters; it happened to Mike AND the ONLY thing different from the many other times he had fueled up a HOT tractor fuel tank was the cell phone.
I will add this one last thing.

I have passed, smelled, and heard a fart yet I have yet to see one so does that mean they do not exist?

[tuckerd1]

Hear! Hear! JJ!

[jack404]

remember the mythbusters saying they could not break windows with a super sonoc plane ? i sent em a vid that showed them it was possible ..

i'm told it'll be redone , but dont think your nanny state rules will allow it to be done as needed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCzChbmJ4w4

this busts the "busted"

[76Highboy]

Originally Posted by jack404

hey bobski , walk on carpet in socks then touch the metal window or stove

that little spark can be 800 degree's , NO BS

how much to ignite fuel vapour ? 400 ?

I am with Jack on this one. The voltage coming from a static spark is rather significant. Because there is very little current it is rendered useless unless the conditions sorrounding it offer an electrical path which is why we get zapped when we walk around in our socks and then touch the TV. I would say the possability of it happening in December is remote if any. But given the hot day, empty fuel cell, fumes being rushed out due to the filling of the diesel and then the cell phone being slid out of the shirt and then the answer and the explosion,,, I would not doubt it at all. A static spark is said to have anywhere from 50,000vdc to 220,000vdc, but the reason it does not kill you is it does not have any current. That is why it zaps you and that is it. The static voltage coming off the shirt and into his hand could be quite high. Also, if he had the phone in a side holster the static spark most likely would not have develpoed. I think the shirt played a big factor. Static spark has been proven to be present while fueling up on everyone. It is just that it takes the right conditions to allow the spark to discharge. The reason that the static charge is rare during fueling up is because most people touch their car before touching the pump which is what is recommended. The problem comes into play when a person exits the car, grabs the pump handle and then touches the car while holding the handle. Does that mean the person will explode when they don't touch the car before filling it? No it does not. However, take a lady who has a big turtle neck sweater, a knit hat, lots of jewelry, her heater was on blowing air over her clothing and hair, and her seat covers were thick suede. Then she gets out of the car without touching the vehicle, grabs the gas nozzle, and then reaches for the fuel door. Zappo!!!! Now go one step further. Same scenario except she has no gas gap and no gas door, just a rag stuffed in the fill hole because she lost her cap. So now you have the same scenario except now she gets out of the car, grabs the nozzle from the gas pump, pulls the rag out, and now she goes to put the nozzle into the fill hole and now you have a recipe for an explosion because the spark is now transfered from her to the car while she is filling the tank.

[Country101]

Jack, I am pretty certain I saw an episode a couple years ago where they did break a window with a jet. They had to run it at a certain angle to make it do it and they did several passes before they got it just right, but i think they did. If I recall correctly, the blue angels were the ones they got to do the tests.

[76Highboy]

Originally Posted by Country101

Jack, I am pretty certain I saw an episode a couple years ago where they did break a window with a jet. They had to run it at a certain angle to make it do it and they did several passes before they got it just right, but i think they did. If I recall correctly, the blue angels were the ones they got to do the tests.

I think you are right on that.

[jack404]

we did not do anything fancy just a mack 1.75 run at 150 foot over the base

blew out the obs tower windows the sgt's mess windows and some car wind screens in the car park .. watch the vid ( beware soldiers language )

[Haligan]

Ok, first off, you're citing a TELEVISION program, for supposed proof. Bad idea. Mythbusters, very entertaining, but I wouldn't bet my life on em'.
2nd, professional firefighter here(big time city, heh, heh, heh). We all have to carry intrinsically safe radios for fireground operations, in case the conditions in a hazardous environment are PERFECT, for the tinyest spark to set off an explosion, or what have ya.

The bottom line (in my professional opinion). ABSOLUTLY possible for any electronic device to be an ignition source in a PERFECT environment of explosive(flamable) gas and oxygen.

Sorry for the lack of humility here, but I know what I know. Disagree if wish, but disregard at your own peril.