Name that Blunderbuss - The Firearms Forum

bobbyhiroaki · 10-13-2010, 10:29 AM

I have this flintlock blunderbuss pistol that I need help identifying. Any information would be very helpful, thanks.

3/2 STA SS · 10-13-2010, 12:54 PM

Mech. looks like it is missing some parts. Looks like a fiing weapon and not a '' wall hanger'' but I have been wrong before.

Jim K · 10-13-2010, 12:54 PM

That gun has all the signs of origin in the middle east. It is not now functional but it was, I think, intended as a weapon, unlike the many fake "guns" made in that area for sale to tourists, and is genuinely old. The marking appears to be in the Arabic alphabet, but in what language or from what country, I have no idea. Any value would be as a novelty, $50-$100 or so IMO.

(I notice what appears to be a hole in the barrel near the muzzle. Maybe this is an early example of magna-porting.

)

Jim

jack404 · 10-13-2010, 04:50 PM

i dunno about Arabic ( arabic is more up and down) , but it does look like Hindu for "lightning" , but its incomplete and worn so i could be wrong , Blunderbuss's like these where coach guns ( early versions) with the dutch east indies company and some of the bigger british outfits in the early days of the british raj, it may have been reworked as the lock itself looks very much like a old grice or tower lock but the section where grice or tower should be seen has been filed and has some rough cut file marks there still

2 cents from down under ..

Jim K · 10-13-2010, 09:22 PM

Re-use of an old lockplate was common with eastern makers and explains the several unused holes, but IMHO the "old lockplate" could be from anywhere. It could be British or just a copy of a British lockplate. I don't think the cock or the steel are from a developed country, but who knows?

Jim

johnlives4christ · 10-13-2010, 09:37 PM

if it were mine... id name it george

45Auto · 10-14-2010, 05:40 PM

The brass trigger is interesting. It looks like it was made from cast brass.

Are there any proof marks on the barrel? It might be necessary to take it off to check.

It's important to keep in mind that up through the 1920's, Spain and Belgium produced new flintlock and caplock firearms for the African, middle eastern, and colonial trade. Often, colonial governments would permit native people to have nothing but muzzle loaders. In some parts of India such arms are still in use because people can't afford anything but black powder. In addition to Spain and Belgium, arms like these were produced in many third world countries either with salvaged parts or entirely from hand made local parts (some of these "primative" people knew how to work steel and iron with grate skill). Any of these guns which have seen even 30 years of hard service under primative conditions are going to look old and beat up; often showing signs of various repairs. The hard part is trying to figure out if the gun is over 200 years old or "only" 80 years old.

To compound the problem and confound the collector, local people in places like North Africa and Afganistan have been making such arms for the tourist trade for many years. Some tourist guns have a few old parts in them, but most of these arms are entirely new and artfully aged!

Jim K · 10-14-2010, 06:01 PM

All true, but most of the guns made for the tourist trade are obviously non-functional and never intended to be used as guns. IMHO, that gun was made as a functional gun. I have seen guns made in Europe for trade purposes, but that does not look like those either. I would guesstimate its age as around 150 years.

Cast brass parts are common and in some countries, like India, casting and working brass has a history dating back centuries.

I would be astonished if the barrel has any proof marks.

Too bad in a way that the cold war killed off much of that industry. With guys with odd accents handing out AK-47's or M16's by the truckload, it just doesn't pay to file guns out of railroad iron any more.

Jim

bobbyhiroaki · 10-15-2010, 10:57 AM

I wanted to thank everyone for contributing to this thread. I am amazed how knowledgeable and passionate you all are about firearms. The history that goes into these pieces is what makes them so interesting. I am a novice in regards to guns, but am trying to learn as much as I can. I don't know how to take the barrel off to check for a mark, but if you all think that there may be one there I would like to learn how. Thanks again

Jim K · 10-16-2010, 11:17 AM

I personally doubt there are any significant marks on the underside of the barrel. And it is not always a good idea to remove the barrel on old guns since the barrel metal is often rusted into the wood and removing the barrel will split the stock.

But just FYI, in most guns of that type the barrel tang (the part at the top rear) has a screw that goes down through the stock into the trigger plate. That screw has to be removed. Then there will be keys (wedges) or pins fitting through the stock at the front and through lugs on the barrel. That gun appears to have one pin located about 3-4" back of the muzzle. The pin would have to be driven out, but again care is needed because often the pin is rusted into the wood and driving it out will split off a chunk of wood.

Jim

red14 · 10-16-2010, 03:35 PM

Barry?

10-13-2010, 10:29 AM	#1
bobbyhiroaki Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Chicago Posts: 8	Name that Blunderbuss I have this flintlock blunderbuss pistol that I need help identifying. Any information would be very helpful, thanks. Attached Images -->

10-13-2010, 12:54 PM	#2
3/2 STA SS Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Tampa Bay Area, FL Posts: 1,454	Re: Name that Blunderbuss Mech. looks like it is missing some parts. Looks like a fiing weapon and not a '' wall hanger'' but I have been wrong before. Last edited by 3/2 STA SS; 10-13-2010 at 12:55 PM..

10-13-2010, 12:54 PM	#3
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: Name that Blunderbuss That gun has all the signs of origin in the middle east. It is not now functional but it was, I think, intended as a weapon, unlike the many fake "guns" made in that area for sale to tourists, and is genuinely old. The marking appears to be in the Arabic alphabet, but in what language or from what country, I have no idea. Any value would be as a novelty, $50-$100 or so IMO. (I notice what appears to be a hole in the barrel near the muzzle. Maybe this is an early example of magna-porting. ) Jim Last edited by Jim K; 10-13-2010 at 12:57 PM..

10-13-2010, 04:50 PM	#4
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: Name that Blunderbuss i dunno about Arabic ( arabic is more up and down) , but it does look like Hindu for "lightning" , but its incomplete and worn so i could be wrong , Blunderbuss's like these where coach guns ( early versions) with the dutch east indies company and some of the bigger british outfits in the early days of the british raj, it may have been reworked as the lock itself looks very much like a old grice or tower lock but the section where grice or tower should be seen has been filed and has some rough cut file marks there still 2 cents from down under .. Last edited by jack404; 10-13-2010 at 04:51 PM..

10-13-2010, 09:22 PM	#5
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: Name that Blunderbuss Re-use of an old lockplate was common with eastern makers and explains the several unused holes, but IMHO the "old lockplate" could be from anywhere. It could be British or just a copy of a British lockplate. I don't think the cock or the steel are from a developed country, but who knows? Jim

10-13-2010, 09:37 PM	#6
johnlives4christ Former Guest Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,828	Re: Name that Blunderbuss if it were mine... id name it george

10-14-2010, 05:40 PM	#7
45Auto Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,124	Re: Name that Blunderbuss The brass trigger is interesting. It looks like it was made from cast brass. Are there any proof marks on the barrel? It might be necessary to take it off to check. It's important to keep in mind that up through the 1920's, Spain and Belgium produced new flintlock and caplock firearms for the African, middle eastern, and colonial trade. Often, colonial governments would permit native people to have nothing but muzzle loaders. In some parts of India such arms are still in use because people can't afford anything but black powder. In addition to Spain and Belgium, arms like these were produced in many third world countries either with salvaged parts or entirely from hand made local parts (some of these "primative" people knew how to work steel and iron with grate skill). Any of these guns which have seen even 30 years of hard service under primative conditions are going to look old and beat up; often showing signs of various repairs. The hard part is trying to figure out if the gun is over 200 years old or "only" 80 years old. To compound the problem and confound the collector, local people in places like North Africa and Afganistan have been making such arms for the tourist trade for many years. Some tourist guns have a few old parts in them, but most of these arms are entirely new and artfully aged! Last edited by 45Auto; 10-14-2010 at 05:47 PM..

10-14-2010, 06:01 PM	#8
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: Name that Blunderbuss All true, but most of the guns made for the tourist trade are obviously non-functional and never intended to be used as guns. IMHO, that gun was made as a functional gun. I have seen guns made in Europe for trade purposes, but that does not look like those either. I would guesstimate its age as around 150 years. Cast brass parts are common and in some countries, like India, casting and working brass has a history dating back centuries. I would be astonished if the barrel has any proof marks. Too bad in a way that the cold war killed off much of that industry. With guys with odd accents handing out AK-47's or M16's by the truckload, it just doesn't pay to file guns out of railroad iron any more. Jim

10-15-2010, 10:57 AM	#9
bobbyhiroaki Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Chicago Posts: 8	Re: Name that Blunderbuss I wanted to thank everyone for contributing to this thread. I am amazed how knowledgeable and passionate you all are about firearms. The history that goes into these pieces is what makes them so interesting. I am a novice in regards to guns, but am trying to learn as much as I can. I don't know how to take the barrel off to check for a mark, but if you all think that there may be one there I would like to learn how. Thanks again

10-16-2010, 11:17 AM	#10
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: Name that Blunderbuss I personally doubt there are any significant marks on the underside of the barrel. And it is not always a good idea to remove the barrel on old guns since the barrel metal is often rusted into the wood and removing the barrel will split the stock. But just FYI, in most guns of that type the barrel tang (the part at the top rear) has a screw that goes down through the stock into the trigger plate. That screw has to be removed. Then there will be keys (wedges) or pins fitting through the stock at the front and through lugs on the barrel. That gun appears to have one pin located about 3-4" back of the muzzle. The pin would have to be driven out, but again care is needed because often the pin is rusted into the wood and driving it out will split off a chunk of wood. Jim

10-16-2010, 03:35 PM	#11
red14 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: N FLA Posts: 3,916	Re: Name that Blunderbuss Barry? __________________ I never argue, I state my opinion, and support my position.