How strong is Titanium? - The Firearms Forum

mspears · 03-23-2004, 10:16 AM

I just purchased a new Taurus Model 85CHULT Ultralight/Titanium at a local gun show last weekend. It's frame is ultralight alloy and the cylinder and barrel shroud are Titanium. The barrel itself is stainless. Besides being extremely light, just how much stronger is Titanium vs steel or stainless steel? Taurus certifies the use of .38 +P's in this gun. I've noticed that CorBon 125 grain JHP +P's are VERY noticably more powerful in every respect. Any worries with this ammo? This gun kicks like a mule with it, but I love it!!

inplanotx · 03-23-2004, 11:13 AM

here ya go. All you ever wanted to know about titanium, but were afraid to ask. Enjoy.

I would not worry about +P loads in the revolver, however, if you change over to regular loads your wrist may thank you!

Titanium

Marlin · 03-23-2004, 11:21 AM

That's a great read and site, IPT.

I'm glad to know those facts!

LDBennett · 03-24-2004, 08:02 AM

Titanium is as strong as steel or stainless. Aluminum (your frame?) needs to be almost three times more massive to equal steel's strength. Titanium has a stretch problem. Once deformed it is not as elastic as steel and may not return to the same dimensions. The solution is to make the design massive enough so that a minimum amount of growth in size is allowed. It will be interesting to see how these titanium guns hold up. Till the facts are all in I think I'll stick to steel guns. Mine will still be around when my grand kids give them to their grand kids.

As an aside, Titanium was used in the 1960's on BSA factory Gran Prix Motocross motocycle frames. They got longer with every moto and required frequent repairs sometimes at the races. The concept only lasted one year. Seems the move to titanium was a Board Room decision without consulting the engineering staff. Did Taurus's Board design the new titanium guns?

LDBennett

txpete · 03-24-2004, 09:10 AM

I also have a titanium taurus but in 45 colt.it is my carry gun as it is so light you can wear it all day and its not a brick on your hip at the end of the day.it is dead on a 7,10 and 15 meters and the ports do reduce the recoil.
in the gun shop I work in we have sold alot of the titaniums mostly the 38 special to G.I.'s for their wifes while deployed overseas.not one has come back to complain or with a problem.
how will they do in the long run I don't know but with the life time warr. from taurus I feel it's worth the gamble.
I shoot my snub titanium 45 colt every trip to the range and now have 300 rd's thru it.I am going to track the rounds fired and if there is a problem I will post it here.
as far as the beezer's go....I still have my triumph in the garage and gets weekend runs but most bsa's ended up in the bone yard as the cranks didn't last as long as the frames.
pete

stash247 · 04-06-2004, 04:50 AM

I'm told S&W did a lot of testing prior to the release of their Ti-Lite line.
One of the more notable tests was the firing of a full cylinder(5 RDS) in a j-frame revolver, into(?) a solid (no hole) barrel, with NO deformation/damage/ disassembly of the revolver.
I've a couple of those little guns, and am happy as hell about their 10-11 oz weight, and their durability, at least to 1,000 rds.
Terry

swanshot · 04-06-2004, 05:20 AM

I'm considering experimenting with a titanium sleeve pressed onto a 6.5x55 swedish mauser barrel to hopefully stiffen it to match grade standard without all the bloody weight.
The other possability being Magnesium alloy.

robsguns · 04-29-2004, 09:00 PM

Titanium is what all the panels on our modern fighters are made of. Its strong, dead strong. Stretch? I am sure it does when made to, but it doesnt stretch too much, if it did, then these planes wings would be flapping by the end of a year instead of staying rigid. Titanium, good stuff. I never once saw a bad panel on the F-15 while I was a crew chief on them, for more than 3 years.

LDBennett · 04-30-2004, 08:04 AM

robsguns:

Sheet metal usage in a huge airplane is not a good comparison to handgun frames. Stretch in an airplane panel of this magnitude might never be noticed or impact performance, but a continual stretch of a 0.001 inches at a time in a hand gun could become a real problem. The fact remains that Titanium suffer the physical fault of less resistance to strech than other steels. Whether it is a problem or not can only be resolved over time and usage.

Xracer · 04-30-2004, 08:16 AM

The big knock on the S&W J-Frame (aluminum alloy) Airweights was that if you fired many .38+Ps in them, the top strap would stretch....and over time, the gun would shoot lower and lower (than the point of aim).

I guess only time will tell if this is a problem with Titanium.

BigZig · 05-01-2004, 08:36 AM

S&W just came out with a Scandium frame .357 revolver. Anyone know about that alloy?

stash247 · 05-12-2004, 09:34 PM

As I remember from some research, a year or two ago, Scandium is a metalic trace element , that, when added to aluminum in the process of alloying, results in a metal alloy which is a bit stronger( tensile) and a bit stronger yet, after heat treating.
For all intents and purposes, unless you believe that S&W is engineering with less than a 50% overload margin, it means NOTHING to a revolver, as the enhancement is in the 10%,or less, range.
The Ti-Lite line, on the other hand, has a brand new barrel/shroud design, a Titanium cylinder, and a 10 1/2 Oz empty weight--- some lighter than ANY of the " Airweights" of prior vintage!
In fact, the trigger lock, included by Smith, in the case with the revolver, weighs MORE than the GUN!!!!!
Just a little info to keep things in perspective..... Terry

Mateomasfeo · 05-17-2004, 07:55 PM

I own a S&W 340PD Scandium 357 revolver. It is extremely lightweight and is very easy to carry concealed. After about 200 rounds I will say it has been flawless.

The cylinder is titanium and as stated above is extremely strong, although it is a hard finish from which to clean fouling. I am closley watching the scandium elements for wear or unusual characteristics.

The lightweight materials are good for what they are. Lightweight concealed carry self defense weapons. My .357's pack a nice punch. The CTC laser grips make an easy to shoot gun pretty accurate. And when you are carrying concealed alot, or in warmer climates, the alloys make sense. I have heard no horror stories of blown guns...

If you are a range lizard and are using it for thousands of rounds of paper punching it is not the way to go.

Oh, by the way, with .357 self defense loads, this bad boy KICKS LIKE A PI$$ED-OFF ARMY MULE.

03-23-2004, 10:16 AM	#1
mspears Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Conover, NC Posts: 23	How strong is Titanium? I just purchased a new Taurus Model 85CHULT Ultralight/Titanium at a local gun show last weekend. It's frame is ultralight alloy and the cylinder and barrel shroud are Titanium. The barrel itself is stainless. Besides being extremely light, just how much stronger is Titanium vs steel or stainless steel? Taurus certifies the use of .38 +P's in this gun. I've noticed that CorBon 125 grain JHP +P's are VERY noticably more powerful in every respect. Any worries with this ammo? This gun kicks like a mule with it, but I love it!! -->

03-23-2004, 11:13 AM	#2
inplanotx Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 8,897	here ya go. All you ever wanted to know about titanium, but were afraid to ask. Enjoy. I would not worry about +P loads in the revolver, however, if you change over to regular loads your wrist may thank you! Titanium __________________

03-23-2004, 11:21 AM	#3
Marlin TFF Admin Staff Chief Counselor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: At SouthernMoss' side forever! Contributor Posts: 13,853	That's a great read and site, IPT. I'm glad to know those facts! __________________ *The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing.* *The only criminal class native to the United States is Congress.*

03-24-2004, 09:10 AM	#5
txpete V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: texas Posts: 76	I also have a titanium taurus but in 45 colt.it is my carry gun as it is so light you can wear it all day and its not a brick on your hip at the end of the day.it is dead on a 7,10 and 15 meters and the ports do reduce the recoil. in the gun shop I work in we have sold alot of the titaniums mostly the 38 special to G.I.'s for their wifes while deployed overseas.not one has come back to complain or with a problem. how will they do in the long run I don't know but with the life time warr. from taurus I feel it's worth the gamble. I shoot my snub titanium 45 colt every trip to the range and now have 300 rd's thru it.I am going to track the rounds fired and if there is a problem I will post it here. as far as the beezer's go....I still have my triumph in the garage and gets weekend runs but most bsa's ended up in the bone yard as the cranks didn't last as long as the frames. pete Last edited by txpete; 03-24-2004 at 09:16 AM..

04-06-2004, 04:50 AM	#6
stash247 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Central Texas Posts: 2,815	Titanium I'm told S&W did a lot of testing prior to the release of their Ti-Lite line. One of the more notable tests was the firing of a full cylinder(5 RDS) in a j-frame revolver, into(?) a solid (no hole) barrel, with NO deformation/damage/ disassembly of the revolver. I've a couple of those little guns, and am happy as hell about their 10-11 oz weight, and their durability, at least to 1,000 rds. Terry __________________ Don't start no s*t and there won't be none, Terry Last edited by stash247; 04-06-2004 at 04:51 AM..*

03-24-2004, 08:02 AM	#4
LDBennett Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hesperia, CA Posts: 5,714	Titanium is as strong as steel or stainless. Aluminum (your frame?) needs to be almost three times more massive to equal steel's strength. Titanium has a stretch problem. Once deformed it is not as elastic as steel and may not return to the same dimensions. The solution is to make the design massive enough so that a minimum amount of growth in size is allowed. It will be interesting to see how these titanium guns hold up. Till the facts are all in I think I'll stick to steel guns. Mine will still be around when my grand kids give them to their grand kids. As an aside, Titanium was used in the 1960's on BSA factory Gran Prix Motocross motocycle frames. They got longer with every moto and required frequent repairs sometimes at the races. The concept only lasted one year. Seems the move to titanium was a Board Room decision without consulting the engineering staff. Did Taurus's Board design the new titanium guns? LDBennett

04-06-2004, 05:20 AM	#7
swanshot Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Perth western australia Posts: 1,436	I'm considering experimenting with a titanium sleeve pressed onto a 6.5x55 swedish mauser barrel to hopefully stiffen it to match grade standard without all the bloody weight. The other possability being Magnesium alloy. __________________ If you don't bleed you haven't bin trying

04-29-2004, 09:00 PM	#8
robsguns V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Jacksonville, NC Posts: 120	Titanium is what all the panels on our modern fighters are made of. Its strong, dead strong. Stretch? I am sure it does when made to, but it doesnt stretch too much, if it did, then these planes wings would be flapping by the end of a year instead of staying rigid. Titanium, good stuff. I never once saw a bad panel on the F-15 while I was a crew chief on them, for more than 3 years.

04-30-2004, 08:04 AM	#9
LDBennett Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hesperia, CA Posts: 5,714	robsguns: Sheet metal usage in a huge airplane is not a good comparison to handgun frames. Stretch in an airplane panel of this magnitude might never be noticed or impact performance, but a continual stretch of a 0.001 inches at a time in a hand gun could become a real problem. The fact remains that Titanium suffer the physical fault of less resistance to strech than other steels. Whether it is a problem or not can only be resolved over time and usage.

04-30-2004, 08:16 AM	#10
Xracer TFF Admin Staff Mediator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet! Posts: 9,144	The big knock on the S&W J-Frame (aluminum alloy) Airweights was that if you fired many .38+Ps in them, the top strap would stretch....and over time, the gun would shoot lower and lower (than the point of aim). I guess only time will tell if this is a problem with Titanium.

05-01-2004, 08:36 AM	#11
BigZig V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: New York Posts: 80	S&W just came out with a Scandium frame .357 revolver. Anyone know about that alloy?

05-12-2004, 09:34 PM	#12
stash247 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Central Texas Posts: 2,815	As I remember from some research, a year or two ago, Scandium is a metalic trace element , that, when added to aluminum in the process of alloying, results in a metal alloy which is a bit stronger( tensile) and a bit stronger yet, after heat treating. For all intents and purposes, unless you believe that S&W is engineering with less than a 50% overload margin, it means NOTHING to a revolver, as the enhancement is in the 10%,or less, range. The Ti-Lite line, on the other hand, has a brand new barrel/shroud design, a Titanium cylinder, and a 10 1/2 Oz empty weight--- some lighter than ANY of the " Airweights" of prior vintage! In fact, the trigger lock, included by Smith, in the case with the revolver, weighs MORE than the GUN!!!!! Just a little info to keep things in perspective..... Terry __________________ Don't start no s**t and there won't be none, Terry

05-17-2004, 07:55 PM	#13
Mateomasfeo V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 242	I own a S&W 340PD Scandium 357 revolver. It is extremely lightweight and is very easy to carry concealed. After about 200 rounds I will say it has been flawless. The cylinder is titanium and as stated above is extremely strong, although it is a hard finish from which to clean fouling. I am closley watching the scandium elements for wear or unusual characteristics. The lightweight materials are good for what they are. Lightweight concealed carry self defense weapons. My .357's pack a nice punch. The CTC laser grips make an easy to shoot gun pretty accurate. And when you are carrying concealed alot, or in warmer climates, the alloys make sense. I have heard no horror stories of blown guns... If you are a range lizard and are using it for thousands of rounds of paper punching it is not the way to go. Oh, by the way, with .357 self defense loads, this bad boy KICKS LIKE A PI$$ED-OFF ARMY MULE. __________________ Mateomasfeo "I am what I am." - Popeye