Caliber Guess? - The Firearms Forum

pinecone70 · 02-25-2009, 12:50 PM

Can anyone tell me what caliber this is? It's not really a trivia question, it was posted in an article accompanying a local shooting involving domestic violence and a death resulting from a .22 shot. This is clearly not .22 ammo, I hate it when news sites do this.

cycloneman · 02-25-2009, 12:55 PM

I think its a .38 spl.

islenos · 02-25-2009, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cycloneman

I think its a .38 spl.

I agree

TranterUK · 02-25-2009, 01:00 PM

.38spl.

artabr · 02-25-2009, 01:06 PM

I would agree. It's probably been hand loaded also judging by the container they are in.

Art

pinecone70 · 02-25-2009, 01:21 PM

Ah, now that's just sad. Putting up a pic of .38s where there should be .22s just makes me unhappy with this news source. I'm going to point it out in the comments section, just because I can. Oddly, it also makes me want to buy that revolver I've had my eye on...

Thanks everyone!

mrkirker · 02-25-2009, 02:28 PM

I fully understand, Pinecone. Our local media is well-known for describing ANY kind of 'gun crime' with a stock photo of a glock-like handgun shown in the back ground.

pinecone70 · 02-25-2009, 02:29 PM

Oh dear, had to post quick to avoid any entanglements with "triple six" number...

pinecone70 · 02-25-2009, 02:31 PM

Ha! My comment on that site received a reply, "I wish my .22 shot bullets like the one in the picture".

LOL!

mrkirker · 02-25-2009, 02:36 PM

(Ah, don't sweat the triple six.) LOL!

artabr · 02-25-2009, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinecone70

Ha! My comment on that site received a reply, "I wish my .22 shot bullets like the one in the picture".

LOL!

Art

TranterUK · 02-25-2009, 02:47 PM

While I am a bit out of date with whats available, the bullets dont look regular. That big hole with a sharp edge reminds me of the old flying ashtrays. Looks coated too. Anyone know what they are?

delta13soultaker · 02-25-2009, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TranterUK

While I am a bit out of date with whats available, the bullets dont look regular. That big hole with a sharp edge reminds me of the old flying ashtrays. Looks coated too. Anyone know what they are?

The bullets in the pic are armor piercing.

They are made of steel and have a thin plastic cup in the base that detaches after leaving the muzzle. It is essentially a 80 grain hollow steel tube with sharp edges in front. Muzzle velocity is around 2,000 fps from a 4" barrel. Very illegal and pretty effective at penetrating level II police vests within 10'.

pinecone70 · 02-25-2009, 02:58 PM

Wicked. That is definitely NOT what this news organization should be putting up as "generic ammo" for their news stories! I am appalled.

cycloneman · 02-25-2009, 02:58 PM

I THINK THEY MIGHT BE BLACK TALON. PROBABLY GOT THE BOX FROM A COP AT AN INTERVIEW.

cycloneman · 02-25-2009, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delta13soultaker

The bullets in the pic are armor piercing.

They are made of steel and have a thin plastic cup in the base that detaches after leaving the muzzle. It is essentially a 80 grain hollow steel tube with sharp edges in front. Muzzle velocity is around 2,000 fps from a 4" barrel. Very illegal and pretty effective at penetrating level II police vests within 10'.

THANKS DELTA, HOW DO YOU GET SOME?

TranterUK · 02-25-2009, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cycloneman

I THINK THEY MIGHT BE BLACK TALON. PROBABLY GOT THE BOX FROM A COP AT AN INTERVIEW.

Now I carried Black Talon for a while and am sure they are not. As has been said, these are very nasty.

delta13soultaker · 02-25-2009, 03:17 PM

Not sure where you'd find it since it became obsolete in 1995?96?

It never caught on because it doesn't work well after a short distance. It just works up close before it slows.

The big selling point was terminal effect, the hollow cylinder was advertised as being easily disrupted once inside soft tissue...which isn't the case; a bullet can only flip once in the time it enters and exits the body.

It looked promising because it was 9mm/.355 dia (terminal effect/bigger hole) with the penetration of 5.7mm/.224 penetrators...turns out there's no free lunch though.

A heavy sabot or hard core penetrator remains the most effective at penetrating body armor over short/medium/long range. These projectiles use their mass + velocity + shape to punch through over a pretty wide range capability, where the hollow tube trick is kind of a close range gimmick using velocity + shape, but doesn't have enough mass.

All hat and no beef, thus another bullet design in the obsolete drawer.

artabr · 02-25-2009, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TranterUK

Now I carried Black Talon for a while and am sure they are not. As has been said, these are very nasty.

Yeah, these would probably core you like an apple. I carry Win. Ranger SXT's, just Talons with a PC name.

Art

TranterUK · 02-25-2009, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delta13soultaker

Not sure where you'd find it since it became obsolete in 1995?96?

It would have been early 90s in the US. I remember them as shiny black with a very scalloped edge around the hollow.

I am sure you are right about their performance, but at the time they were well thought of. I still remember the big smile on the face of an airport policeman when I dropped a hand full in his hands before an international flight.

I wouldn't do that today!

delta13soultaker · 02-25-2009, 06:00 PM

Oh I see.

Yes, the edges where angled very sharp. And I also had the impression they'd been well regarded. But their initial reputation was a bit inflated and as I said based on extremely close range; the very characteristics that made them outstanding up close made them poor further away. The solid penatrators easily surpass them in the big scheme.

Mr. Nameless · 02-25-2009, 06:34 PM

from this angle to me it kinda looks like old .357 ammo, but thats not right, so i'm sayin .38 special

ysacres · 02-25-2009, 07:30 PM

38 spl

noslolo · 02-26-2009, 01:29 AM

I still have two boxes of Black Talon, 9mm and .40S&W.

1shot1k · 02-26-2009, 02:17 AM

After studying the pic for several hours Pincone..I would foster an opinion that those cartridges are the ill reknown " saturday night mushroom"s"...they have a core of inert "radonium Plasma" with a suspected "half life " of about 24,000 hours...

IF my suspisions are right..they were supposed to have been destroyed after "WW II ". You see their sole use was to be for pilots and crew of the WWII bombers..in the unexpected event that one of our early atomic bombs did not detinate on Japan soil or at desired altitude..the aircrewman ( decided by straws ) would parachute down to the vicinity of the bomb shell...and when he reached a range ( once classified ) of about 50 feet..he would fire these special cartridges into the bomb until ignition was triggered. The crewman involved..of course...knew he risked serious injury on this mission.

I believe these to be those shells because..look right there on the rim of case..and see......wait...oh wait....

no.thats not them..... ....... nevermind..

02-25-2009, 12:50 PM	#1
pinecone70 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Minnesota Gal! Posts: 4,730	Caliber Guess? Can anyone tell me what caliber this is? It's not really a trivia question, it was posted in an article accompanying a local shooting involving domestic violence and a death resulting from a .22 shot. This is clearly not .22 ammo, I hate it when news sites do this. Attached Images __________________ _____________________________________________ "Miss Scarlet, in the library...with a revolver...." -->

02-25-2009, 12:55 PM	#2
cycloneman Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Louisiana Posts: 7,401	Re: Caliber Guess? I think its a .38 spl. __________________ Who are you going to serve today?

02-25-2009, 01:00 PM	#4
TranterUK Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 5,103	Re: Caliber Guess? .38spl. __________________ DVC - Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas - Accuracy, Power, Speed. The light at the end of the recession tunnel IS a train coming the other way!

02-25-2009, 01:06 PM	#5
artabr Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: New Iberia, Louisiana Contributor Posts: 7,859	Re: Caliber Guess? I would agree. It's probably been hand loaded also judging by the container they are in. Art __________________ God and the soldier we like adore, In times of trouble, not before. When troubles ended and all things righted, God is forgotten and the soldier is slighted. Francis Quarles 1592 - 1644 __________________ When asked for my race, I answer CauCajun. Hope is not a plan, and not all change is good. The resistance is here; the resistance is now. RESIST! These hands are neither cold nor are they dead!!

02-25-2009, 01:21 PM	#6
pinecone70 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Minnesota Gal! Posts: 4,730	Re: Caliber Guess? Ah, now that's just sad. Putting up a pic of .38s where there should be .22s just makes me unhappy with this news source. I'm going to point it out in the comments section, just because I can. Oddly, it also makes me want to buy that revolver I've had my eye on... Thanks everyone! __________________ _____________________________________________ "Miss Scarlet, in the library...with a revolver...."

02-25-2009, 02:28 PM	#7
mrkirker Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 3,067	Re: Caliber Guess? I fully understand, Pinecone. Our local media is well-known for describing ANY kind of 'gun crime' with a stock photo of a glock-like handgun shown in the back ground. __________________ *I don't know if dogs have a heaven, but there will be dogs in mine.*

02-25-2009, 02:29 PM	#8
pinecone70 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Minnesota Gal! Posts: 4,730	Re: Caliber Guess? Oh dear, had to post quick to avoid any entanglements with "triple six" number... __________________ _____________________________________________ "Miss Scarlet, in the library...with a revolver...."

02-25-2009, 02:31 PM	#9
pinecone70 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Minnesota Gal! Posts: 4,730	Re: Caliber Guess? Ha! My comment on that site received a reply, "I wish my .22 shot bullets like the one in the picture". LOL! __________________ _____________________________________________ "Miss Scarlet, in the library...with a revolver...."

02-25-2009, 02:36 PM	#10
mrkirker Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 3,067	Re: Caliber Guess? (Ah, don't sweat the triple six.) LOL! __________________ *I don't know if dogs have a heaven, but there will be dogs in mine.*

02-25-2009, 02:47 PM	#12
TranterUK Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 5,103	Re: Caliber Guess? While I am a bit out of date with whats available, the bullets dont look regular. That big hole with a sharp edge reminds me of the old flying ashtrays. Looks coated too. Anyone know what they are? __________________ DVC - Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas - Accuracy, Power, Speed. The light at the end of the recession tunnel IS a train coming the other way!

02-25-2009, 02:58 PM	#14
pinecone70 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Minnesota Gal! Posts: 4,730	Re: Caliber Guess? Wicked. That is definitely NOT what this news organization should be putting up as "generic ammo" for their news stories! I am appalled. __________________ _____________________________________________ "Miss Scarlet, in the library...with a revolver...."

02-25-2009, 02:58 PM	#15
cycloneman Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Louisiana Posts: 7,401	Re: Caliber Guess? I THINK THEY MIGHT BE BLACK TALON. PROBABLY GOT THE BOX FROM A COP AT AN INTERVIEW. __________________ Who are you going to serve today?

02-25-2009, 03:17 PM	#18
delta13soultaker Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Depends on Uncle Sam's whim every 3 yrs. Posts: 2,948	Re: Caliber Guess? Not sure where you'd find it since it became obsolete in 1995?96? It never caught on because it doesn't work well after a short distance. It just works up close before it slows. The big selling point was terminal effect, the hollow cylinder was advertised as being easily disrupted once inside soft tissue...which isn't the case; a bullet can only flip once in the time it enters and exits the body. It looked promising because it was 9mm/.355 dia (terminal effect/bigger hole) with the penetration of 5.7mm/.224 penetrators...turns out there's no free lunch though. A heavy sabot or hard core penetrator remains the most effective at penetrating body armor over short/medium/long range. These projectiles use their mass + velocity + shape to punch through over a pretty wide range capability, where the hollow tube trick is kind of a close range gimmick using velocity + shape, but doesn't have enough mass. All hat and no beef, thus another bullet design in the obsolete drawer. __________________ Never say die! "A nation who forgets its defenders is soon forgotten itself." "A good shot must necessarily be a good man since the essence of good marksmanship is self-control and self-control is the essential quality of a good man." – Theodore Roosevelt

02-25-2009, 06:00 PM	#21
delta13soultaker Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Depends on Uncle Sam's whim every 3 yrs. Posts: 2,948	Re: Caliber Guess? Oh I see. Yes, the edges where angled very sharp. And I also had the impression they'd been well regarded. But their initial reputation was a bit inflated and as I said based on extremely close range; the very characteristics that made them outstanding up close made them poor further away. The solid penatrators easily surpass them in the big scheme. __________________ Never say die! "A nation who forgets its defenders is soon forgotten itself." "A good shot must necessarily be a good man since the essence of good marksmanship is self-control and self-control is the essential quality of a good man." – Theodore Roosevelt

02-25-2009, 06:34 PM	#22
Mr. Nameless Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Coast of N.C. Posts: 1,264	Re: Caliber Guess? from this angle to me it kinda looks like old .357 ammo, but thats not right, so i'm sayin .38 special __________________ Signed ~BMP Two classifications of terrorist dead and not dead enough

02-25-2009, 07:30 PM	#23
ysacres Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Wazzu WA Posts: 2,413	Re: Caliber Guess? 38 spl Attached Images __________________

02-26-2009, 01:29 AM	#24
noslolo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Johnstown PA Posts: 1,558	Re: Caliber Guess? I still have two boxes of Black Talon, 9mm and .40S&W. __________________ I'm a heck of a "obesito illegitimo"

02-26-2009, 02:17 AM	#25
1shot1k Former Guest Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Fort Worth, Texas Posts: 904	Re: Caliber Guess? After studying the pic for several hours Pincone..I would foster an opinion that those cartridges are the ill reknown " saturday night mushroom"s"...they have a core of inert "radonium Plasma" with a suspected "half life " of about 24,000 hours... IF my suspisions are right..they were supposed to have been destroyed after "WW II ". You see their sole use was to be for pilots and crew of the WWII bombers..in the unexpected event that one of our early atomic bombs did not detinate on Japan soil or at desired altitude..the aircrewman ( decided by straws ) would parachute down to the vicinity of the bomb shell...and when he reached a range ( once classified ) of about 50 feet..he would fire these special cartridges into the bomb until ignition was triggered. The crewman involved..of course...knew he risked serious injury on this mission. I believe these to be those shells because..look right there on the rim of case..and see......wait...oh wait.... no.thats not them..... ....... nevermind..