lee dies vs others, why no lock ring? - The Firearms Forum

soundguy · 07-12-2012, 01:53 PM

i setup a lee 35 rem die last night.. first lee die I've used ( others have been CH and rcbs, etc.. ).. and noticed that theyle they have a retainer ring and oring.. they do not hve a locking ring? is this becuase they intend you to tighten thin ingo a quick change breech lock bushing and then use thast as the swap? can i assume hornady will be the same?

JLA · 07-12-2012, 07:01 PM

The Lee lock ring works kinda like a jam nut. and when you tighten it down into the press the rubber O ring smashes into the die body and makes it snug against the die.

soundguy · 07-12-2012, 07:46 PM

but.. when you take it out of the press.. since the nut has no set screw.. you loose your adjustments. with other dies with lock rings.. you can just screw in and go.

I realize lee may be expecting you to use a breechlock system and drop in and go.. etc. similar to the hornady setup.. etc. I think I'll be putting some rcbs locking rings on mine..

76Highboy · 07-12-2012, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soundguy

but.. when you take it out of the press.. since the nut has no set screw.. you loose your adjustments. with other dies with lock rings.. you can just screw in and go.

I realize lee may be expecting you to use a breechlock system and drop in and go.. etc. similar to the hornady setup.. etc. I think I'll be putting some rcbs locking rings on mine..

I prefer the Hornady lock rings over the RCBS however, I prefer the Lee lock rings over all the others. Redialing the die's in is no big deal for me.

soundguy · 07-12-2012, 08:00 PM

it's no big deal.. but it consumes time. I like to walk by my play room and hit a lil work 5 m here.. 10m there.

can't do that if i am taking 10m to adjust a die just so... and then no time to play..

JLA · 07-12-2012, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soundguy

but.. when you take it out of the press.. since the nut has no set screw.. you loose your adjustments. with other dies with lock rings.. you can just screw in and go.

I realize lee may be expecting you to use a breechlock system and drop in and go.. etc. similar to the hornady setup.. etc. I think I'll be putting some rcbs locking rings on mine..

Take a sharpie and put a dot on the lock ring and die body while its set up right in the press. Then when you unscrew it just grasp the lockring and die body together then theyll stay together where you left them. the dots are so when you reinstall the die for the next loading session you can put it back exactly where you had it last.

I personally put a drop of penetrating loctite on the dies ill never reset and use a stubby 1 1/8 wrench i cut to remove and install the die. and the penetrating grade loctite still allows you to adjust the die if you need to it just takes a bit more force.

Granted its not as dead simple as setting a lock ring setscrew but I find set screws (RCBS) are notorious for coming loose and to keep them from doing so you have to run them in so tight it boogers the threads or strips the set screw.

I guess I just like the way LEE dies are set up.

1LoneWolf75 · 07-12-2012, 08:08 PM

Lee does sell lock rings fer this reason. The way I read the catalog there is supposed to be two nuts and you set it then run the bottom nut down then the nut with the o-ring down to it to lock it. to remove you back off the bottom only and the whole die come out. I may be wrong as I just got the press and can't order dies till next week, but the breechlock is cool.

soundguy · 07-12-2012, 08:11 PM

none of my lee dies i just got have any lock rings or 2nd rings. just the 1 with oring.

I personally don;t want to trust the dot method. I wouldn't trust I got it colse enough. maybee on a pistol it won';t matter.. but on a rifle I'm crimping for.. IMHO.. it will.

on my rcbs rings.. I do use some loctite green on the set screw and the ring.

I also use the actual rcbs wrench to remove the die/rings. works great. way better than a palin spanner or a pliers set..

for me anyway.

76Highboy · 07-12-2012, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soundguy

it's no big deal.. but it consumes time. I like to walk by my play room and hit a lil work 5 m here.. 10m there.

can't do that if i am taking 10m to adjust a die just so... and then no time to play..

Oh I understand. I have done it for so long it is second nature. Sometimes I will be setting my dies up while I am listening to the talk radio or talking to someone and when I am done I realize that I was on automatic pilot. Then I have days where for some reason they fight me and it is usually because I am suffering from HUA syndrome.

redwing carson · 07-12-2012, 08:46 PM

I replaced the crimp die in the Dillon with a Lee Factory Crimp die for .45 Colt. I like these crimp dies.

Bindernut · 07-12-2012, 10:09 PM

that o-ring retainer for the lockring is about the only beef I've had with Lee dies.

I replace them with the Hornady split-ring type lock ring that also has two wrench flats on the ring. Makes em a lot easier to keep locked in adjustment.
I replace the RCBS rings with the brass setscrew with these split-style rings too.
Midway, Grafs, etc, put em on sale every now and then and I buy a bunch at a time so I've got enough on hand to outfit at least two sets of dies.
BUT...every now and then I have to readjust them anyway depending on if I switch presses (I've got an RCBS single-stage, a C-H 3-station, and a Lee hand press).

PA_RIFLEMAN303 · 07-12-2012, 10:35 PM

I think the breech lock set up is one of the most stupidest ideas ever but the price on the kits is nice. in the past 5 or so years I've learned that the breech lock and Lee's version of the lock ring make for a serious variance problem all the way down to round to round level.

My solution to the breech lock is JB weld the bushing into the press. this removes the variances in bullet seating depth and if you use collet dies, that too is affected by the roaming bushing.

My solution to the Lee lock ring or lack there of is to toss them out and buy real lock rings. I suggest Hornady sur-locs as they have a set screw to tighten it but they were smart enough to realize that running a screw against the treads on a die is stupid.

I am a comp shooter and I take handloading seriously.

312shooter · 07-12-2012, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PA_RIFLEMAN303

I am a comp shooter and I take handloading seriously.

Wow competition shooter using Lee equipment??? Oh man WHERE is LD??

PA_RIFLEMAN303 · 07-12-2012, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 312shooter

Wow competition shooter using Lee equipment??? Oh man WHERE is LD??

Lee is just fine.......... as long as you rework it a little or at times a lot

I can load the same quality ammo on Lee equipment as i can with RCBS, Dillon, Lyman Etc. it just takes some changes to the Lee equipment to get it up into top line status.

todd51 · 07-12-2012, 11:38 PM

Somebody, I think one of the members here suggested on the RCBS dies to remove the set screw and put some lead shot pellets in the hole (just a couple depending on the size you have) and then replace the set screw. The lead forms to the treads on the die and holds better. I have done that and it seems to work fine. I only have one set of Lee dies .45 Colt and I replaced the rings with some RCBS rings off some old dies I no longer use.

howlnmad · 07-13-2012, 03:33 AM

The first thing I do with a new Lee die set is pitch their lock-ring and put on a Hornady ring.

RandyP · 07-13-2012, 06:28 AM

I use all Lee gear - I have a separate turret for each caliber and the Lee o-ring holds the dies in alignment just fine - once hand tight they do NOT loosen up in use. For my single stage each die is set in its own breech lock bushing. Again, once hand snug they do not wander from the setting.

If memory serves Lee is now also selling a split ring "lock" ring similar to the other makes that are locking on the die threads. I could easily be mistaken - lol

al45lc · 07-13-2012, 08:28 AM

Use the same Loctite green or blue you use for scope screws. Problem solved.
I've used Lee for 20 + years, no problems. And I take my reloading seriously too.

carver · 07-13-2012, 08:44 AM

I use a Lee progressive set up, and once I have my dies set up, I just swap out the collet with the dies I want, no adjustments at all. If I want to reload .357, I just slap in that collet, and go. If I want to load .38's, I just swap out the collets form .357, to .38, and go. When I first started out I would readjust the dies each time for these two calibers, but I got lazy, and just bought another collet, and another set of dies. Now I just swap out collets.

cpttango30 · 07-13-2012, 09:07 AM

I would rather have 2 lock rings vs the lee or RCBS hex screw system.

I will say the Lee FCD is the best thing they produce. If I have an extra spot on my 550 I would use it. But as I have a powder cop die on it I seat and crimp all in one.

gdmoody · 07-13-2012, 09:35 AM

I have been using Lee dies for over 30 years and have never had a the problem that soundguy is describing. When I remove the die from the press, just unscrew it by holding on to the lock ring. Next time you use it, screw it into the press by holding on to the lock ring. Absolutely no problems at all.

mikld · 07-13-2012, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLA

The Lee lock ring works kinda like a jam nut. and when you tighten it down into the press the rubber O ring smashes into the die body and makes it snug against the die.

And I've been using Lee dies (among others) since '86 and have had no dies "work loose" when finger tightening the lock nuts...

dbach · 07-13-2012, 10:26 AM

Buy and use RCBS dies. Problem solved and you have a better die.

Side note: I use a single piece of lead shot under the set screw to lock the rings in place .... works for me.

OCYMMV.

gdmoody · 07-13-2012, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbach

Buy and use RCBS dies. Problem solved and you have a better die.

Well, I disagree with you on the statement that it is a better die. I do have RCBS, and I do have LYMAN, and I do have Redding but the LEE dies that I have are just as good as the higher priced dies.

What, to you, makes RCBS better? Is it the higher price? Is it the you get what you pay for mentality? Just curious!!!

cpttango30 · 07-13-2012, 12:17 PM

For me I prefer my RCBS and Hornady Dies over all others. I could never get over the Shell holders that didn't fit 80% of my brass, hand primer that broke in half in my had after 5 primers, the lee press that snapped in half when resizing a 222 rem, The lee powder measure than you have to tweak to get to work right then you can only use specific powders in it as some will leak through. You add that to the customer service I got from them telling me It was my fault that the primer broke or telling me that it was more than likely the brass i was using vs the shell holders. Which I thought ODD in that the brass fit in RCBS and Hornady shell holders. You add all that with the cheesy looking chrome plated dies and I don't use them for the shear face that I wont allow Lee products in my reloading room other than a Factory Crimp Die (If I used them)....

My RCBS dies are spot on and work right out of the box. The finish is also much better on then vs the lee dies IMNSHO.

07-12-2012, 01:53 PM	#1
soundguy Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: florida Contributor Posts: 4,453	lee dies vs others, why no lock ring? i setup a lee 35 rem die last night.. first lee die I've used ( others have been CH and rcbs, etc.. ).. and noticed that theyle they have a retainer ring and oring.. they do not hve a locking ring? is this becuase they intend you to tighten thin ingo a quick change breech lock bushing and then use thast as the swap? can i assume hornady will be the same? -->

07-12-2012, 07:01 PM	#2
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,319	Re: lee dies vs others, why no lock ring? The Lee lock ring works kinda like a jam nut. and when you tighten it down into the press the rubber O ring smashes into the die body and makes it snug against the die. __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

07-12-2012, 07:46 PM	#3
soundguy Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: florida Contributor Posts: 4,453	Re: lee dies vs others, why no lock ring? but.. when you take it out of the press.. since the nut has no set screw.. you loose your adjustments. with other dies with lock rings.. you can just screw in and go. I realize lee may be expecting you to use a breechlock system and drop in and go.. etc. similar to the hornady setup.. etc. I think I'll be putting some rcbs locking rings on mine..

07-12-2012, 08:00 PM	#5
soundguy Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: florida Contributor Posts: 4,453	Re: lee dies vs others, why no lock ring? it's no big deal.. but it consumes time. I like to walk by my play room and hit a lil work 5 m here.. 10m there. can't do that if i am taking 10m to adjust a die just so... and then no time to play..

07-12-2012, 08:08 PM	#7
1LoneWolf75 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Humboldt KS Posts: 592	Re: lee dies vs others, why no lock ring? Lee does sell lock rings fer this reason. The way I read the catalog there is supposed to be two nuts and you set it then run the bottom nut down then the nut with the o-ring down to it to lock it. to remove you back off the bottom only and the whole die come out. I may be wrong as I just got the press and can't order dies till next week, but the breechlock is cool. __________________ They can have my guns when they pry them from my cold, dead hands!!! "Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who are not." - Thomas Jefferson "I've seen the system fall apart from the rules and all our presidents lie"--"Soul Survive"- Asphalt Ballethttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6DgVrYWw00

07-12-2012, 08:11 PM	#8
soundguy Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: florida Contributor Posts: 4,453	Re: lee dies vs others, why no lock ring? none of my lee dies i just got have any lock rings or 2nd rings. just the 1 with oring. I personally don;t want to trust the dot method. I wouldn't trust I got it colse enough. maybee on a pistol it won';t matter.. but on a rifle I'm crimping for.. IMHO.. it will. on my rcbs rings.. I do use some loctite green on the set screw and the ring. I also use the actual rcbs wrench to remove the die/rings. works great. way better than a palin spanner or a pliers set.. for me anyway.

07-12-2012, 08:46 PM	#10
redwing carson Former Guest Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: western wyoming Posts: 734	Re: lee dies vs others, why no lock ring? I replaced the crimp die in the Dillon with a Lee Factory Crimp die for .45 Colt. I like these crimp dies.

07-12-2012, 10:09 PM	#11
Bindernut Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: ND, USA Posts: 2,450	Re: lee dies vs others, why no lock ring? that o-ring retainer for the lockring is about the only beef I've had with Lee dies. I replace them with the Hornady split-ring type lock ring that also has two wrench flats on the ring. Makes em a lot easier to keep locked in adjustment. I replace the RCBS rings with the brass setscrew with these split-style rings too. Midway, Grafs, etc, put em on sale every now and then and I buy a bunch at a time so I've got enough on hand to outfit at least two sets of dies. BUT...every now and then I have to readjust them anyway depending on if I switch presses (I've got an RCBS single-stage, a C-H 3-station, and a Lee hand press).

07-12-2012, 10:35 PM	#12
PA_RIFLEMAN303 Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Port Allegany, PA 16743 Posts: 20	Re: lee dies vs others, why no lock ring? I think the breech lock set up is one of the most stupidest ideas ever but the price on the kits is nice. in the past 5 or so years I've learned that the breech lock and Lee's version of the lock ring make for a serious variance problem all the way down to round to round level. My solution to the breech lock is JB weld the bushing into the press. this removes the variances in bullet seating depth and if you use collet dies, that too is affected by the roaming bushing. My solution to the Lee lock ring or lack there of is to toss them out and buy real lock rings. I suggest Hornady sur-locs as they have a set screw to tighten it but they were smart enough to realize that running a screw against the treads on a die is stupid. I am a comp shooter and I take handloading seriously. __________________ ___________________________________________ Always looking to acquire Greek HXP .303 British ammunition. ___________________________________________ 1943 Fazakerley Lee Enfield No.4 Mk.1

07-12-2012, 11:38 PM	#15
todd51 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Central, Ohio Contributor Posts: 2,572	Re: lee dies vs others, why no lock ring? Somebody, I think one of the members here suggested on the RCBS dies to remove the set screw and put some lead shot pellets in the hole (just a couple depending on the size you have) and then replace the set screw. The lead forms to the treads on the die and holds better. I have done that and it seems to work fine. I only have one set of Lee dies .45 Colt and I replaced the rings with some RCBS rings off some old dies I no longer use. __________________ Retired Praefectus Vigilum NRA Endowment Member

07-13-2012, 03:33 AM	#16
howlnmad Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Harriman, Tn Contributor Posts: 2,569	Re: lee dies vs others, why no lock ring? The first thing I do with a new Lee die set is pitch their lock-ring and put on a Hornady ring. __________________

07-13-2012, 06:28 AM	#17
RandyP V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 430	Re: lee dies vs others, why no lock ring? I use all Lee gear - I have a separate turret for each caliber and the Lee o-ring holds the dies in alignment just fine - once hand tight they do NOT loosen up in use. For my single stage each die is set in its own breech lock bushing. Again, once hand snug they do not wander from the setting. If memory serves Lee is now also selling a split ring "lock" ring similar to the other makes that are locking on the die threads. I could easily be mistaken - lol __________________ Lee Anniversary and Lee Classic 4-Hole Turret, presently reloading .380, 7.62 Nagant (32-20), 9mm and 45ACP

07-13-2012, 08:28 AM	#18
al45lc Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: colorful colorado Posts: 1,016	Re: lee dies vs others, why no lock ring? Use the same Loctite green or blue you use for scope screws. Problem solved. I've used Lee for 20 + years, no problems. And I take my reloading seriously too. __________________ You are what you do, when it counts.

07-13-2012, 08:44 AM	#19
carver TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: DAV, Deep in the Pineywoods of East Texas, just west of Shreveport, LA Contributor Posts: 11,274	Re: lee dies vs others, why no lock ring? I use a Lee progressive set up, and once I have my dies set up, I just swap out the collet with the dies I want, no adjustments at all. If I want to reload .357, I just slap in that collet, and go. If I want to load .38's, I just swap out the collets form .357, to .38, and go. When I first started out I would readjust the dies each time for these two calibers, but I got lazy, and just bought another collet, and another set of dies. Now I just swap out collets. __________________ Y'all be safe now, ya hear! Lamentations Chapter 5: 1. Remember, O LORD, what is come upon us: consider, and behold our reproach. 2. Our inheritance is turned to strangers, our houses to aliens. 3. We are orphans and fatherless, our mothers [are] as widows. 5. Our necks [are] under persecution: we labour, [and] have no rest. 16. The crown is fallen [from] our head: woe unto us, that we have sinned! 21. Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.

07-13-2012, 09:07 AM	#20
cpttango30 Former Guest Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Stafford, VA Contributor Posts: 3,071	Re: lee dies vs others, why no lock ring? I would rather have 2 lock rings vs the lee or RCBS hex screw system. I will say the Lee FCD is the best thing they produce. If I have an extra spot on my 550 I would use it. But as I have a powder cop die on it I seat and crimp all in one.

07-13-2012, 09:35 AM	#21
gdmoody Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Northeast Georgia Contributor Posts: 6,340	Re: lee dies vs others, why no lock ring? I have been using Lee dies for over 30 years and have never had a the problem that soundguy is describing. When I remove the die from the press, just unscrew it by holding on to the lock ring. Next time you use it, screw it into the press by holding on to the lock ring. Absolutely no problems at all. __________________ NRA Endowment Member GeorgiaCarry.Org Member Retired US Army Postal Worker Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take an ass whoopin'.....author unknown (but obviously brilliant)

07-13-2012, 10:26 AM	#23
dbach V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Trinity, TX Posts: 169	Re: lee dies vs others, why no lock ring? Buy and use RCBS dies. Problem solved and you have a better die. Side note: I use a single piece of lead shot under the set screw to lock the rings in place .... works for me. OCYMMV. __________________ David Bachelder Trinity, TX Rookie Reloader but learning fast 9mm, 40S&W, 45ACP, 45 Colt, 38 Special, .357 Magnum, 38 S&W, .243, & 30-06 CHL ~ Texas

07-13-2012, 12:17 PM	#25
cpttango30 Former Guest Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Stafford, VA Contributor Posts: 3,071	Re: lee dies vs others, why no lock ring? For me I prefer my RCBS and Hornady Dies over all others. I could never get over the Shell holders that didn't fit 80% of my brass, hand primer that broke in half in my had after 5 primers, the lee press that snapped in half when resizing a 222 rem, The lee powder measure than you have to tweak to get to work right then you can only use specific powders in it as some will leak through. You add that to the customer service I got from them telling me It was my fault that the primer broke or telling me that it was more than likely the brass i was using vs the shell holders. Which I thought ODD in that the brass fit in RCBS and Hornady shell holders. You add all that with the cheesy looking chrome plated dies and I don't use them for the shear face that I wont allow Lee products in my reloading room other than a Factory Crimp Die (If I used them).... My RCBS dies are spot on and work right out of the box. The finish is also much better on then vs the lee dies IMNSHO.