BLUE DOT Warning

[armedandsafe]

Just picked this up over on Mauser Central.

Pops

[Pistolenschutze]

Most interesting. Thanks for posting, Pops. Any idea why they now exclude Blue Dot for the .41 and the 125 grainer in the .357? It must have to do with excessive pressure, but I wonder why that is.

[jinn]

Blue Dot has been used for years and years in large high-pressure handgun calibers, such as .44Mag, and I personally do not recall any problems specifically encountered.

Now, in the event that the original burning rate formulation has been factory-altered, a whole new scenerio may be unfolding.

[JLA]

dammit, it just bought a pound of that stuff for my .357 to use with my 125gr. Hardcast. i guess i gotta break out the bullet puller.

[Haligan]

Originally Posted by jinn

Now, in the event that the original burning rate formulation has been factory-altered, a whole new scenerio may be unfolding.

See you hit it right on the head, right their. They're changing the formula.

[artabr]

That Bites. Blue dot is my go to hot load in .357 and .45 acp. I don't use light bullets, but this needs to be investigated.




Art

[Bindernut]

This is interesting. Blue Dot is one of my "standard" powders...still have a good stash of the older stuff but will need to keep this in mind when I restock.

I wonder if the formula is changing (and new data will be coming) or if it's just one of those CYA litigation things.

[Terry_P]

I sent Alliant an e-mail and asked why and their reply is:

"Unfortunately we do not have an explanation and are a bit perplexed about this too. The bottom line is that the pressures were higher and unacceptable, hence the warning. We will offer some new load data after we complete our investigation. Thanks for your interest in contacting us and have a nice day.



Ben Amonette

Consumer Service Manager

Alliant Powder Company"

[400cor-bon]

I have a box of heavily crimped 125 Rem JHP over 12.6 gr blue dot
Manual says 14.5 is max, but when I tried that load it was too hot.
Went down two sizes on my lee cavity powder measure
and 12.6 gr seemed to work fine
Do I shoot these despite the recall as they are not max loads
or scrap them?

[Night Driver]

They are about two decades late at least as far as the 41 magnum warning is concerned.

Years ago I had a S&W model 58. Usually I shot cast bullets with Bullseye or something similiar loaded down.

Got a wild hair to take it deer hunting one year. Loaded some 170gr Sierra Hollow Soft point bullets. Gradually worked the load up to the recommended max. This took place during summer and early fall. The loads worked well and did not exihibit any visible pressure signs.

During deer season I was not successfull in taking a deer but my hunting buddy did knock one down with a shot that broke the deers back. It was flailing around painfully and he asked me to administer the coup de grace.

The temp was well below freezing and when the pistol went off it sounded every bit as loud as my buddies 300 Winchester mag. The recoil felt like being hit in the hand with a baseball bat. This had not been the case earlier in the year when I was working up the loads. Yes they were hot but I had fired over 50 of them in practice without undo effect. The temps while practicing were in the 60 degree and above range.

I had to drive the fired case out of the cylinder. The case was split and the primer was pierced. I dissassembeled the rest of those loads and weighed all the powder charges and bullets. None were exceptionally light or heavy. I could find no reason for what had transpired and my inquiries to Hercules (they manufactured Blue Dot at that time) went unanswered.

Later I was in a local gun store speaking with one of the salesman about this incident. The owner was within hearing and commented he had heard about a similiar episode with exactly the same caliber and powder only the bullet weight was different. Yes it had occurred during very cold temperatures and had happened only at low temps.

Needless to say I quit loading Blue Dot into anything. In fact I still have the can sitting in my powder closet. Perhaps I should dispose of it some how or other. Better late than never so to speak.

[bailenforcer]

I am no rocket scientist, but I am an engineer so what do I know.

I have reloaded for over 30 years. This is a bit contradictory or it seems.

a 357 pushing 125 grains develops more breach pressures than the heavier bullet? This makes NO sense.

The 41 Magnum has more breach pressures that a 44 magnum?


Here's my take on it and I have loaded for myself and others well over a half million rounds, I have been doing this since the Super Vel days.

People loading 125 grain loads (guessing hunting and self defense) are probably pushing the envelope and overloading to get that pet load or Ultimate man stopper, Deer stopper. This has probably caused a lawsuit, and they are doing C.Y.A. because of stupidity. Now I have seen this only a few hundred times where people would bring me loads which even in new brass would split the brass. They loaded to insane pressures causing this. A few beers and bragging rights and look out Bubba is suing ATK because his new 47 grains of powder driving a 125 JHP went BOOM in his hand.

This is ONLY a guess. I have used Blue dot for so many years in the 357 Magnum driving 125 grain JHP's 1500 plus FPS without a hiccup and with surprising accuracy.

This and IDIOTS feeding their dogs gun powder to make them aggressive always has bothered me. Yes I used to train & rent Sentry Dogs to businesses back in the 70's and Morons in Detroit thought it was a great idea to feed gun powder to their Doberman, or other dogs to make them aggressive.

So again this is ONLY a wild guess but the idiot factor might be at hand here.

Originally Posted by armedandsafe

Just picked this up over on Mauser Central.

Pops

[45fullmoon]

Drat!

I have HUNDREDS of rounds loaded with 11.0 grains of BD behind Winchester or Remington 125 grain JHP or JSP bullets. I've been shooting that load for over 15 years in my S&W 686, S&W 27 and Marlin 1894 with no trouble at all. I know it's kinda light for a magnum load, but it's got a very mild recoil and is very accurate.

I just bought a pound of Blue Dot a year or so ago but haven't used any of it yet. The rounds I have were loaded with a batch that I bought several years ago, so maybe they'll be OK. I guess I'll wait until this all plays out before I use the newer stuff with my 125 grainers.

I don't relish the thought of pulling the bullets on several hundred rounds...

[JLA]

I have been tinkering around with it in my .357 despite the warning. I have not had any problems yet in the process. I hit my most accurate load yet at 10.2 gr. under a 125 gr. lead bullet, producing 2.5" average groups at 50 yds at appx. 1300 fps. (figures taken 10 ft. from the muzzle), extreme spread is 23 fps. and the standard deviation is 9.8 fps. Absolutely no signs of severe pressure, a relatively clean burn, and moderate recoil. You have an intersting theory night driver, Im gonna try some starting loads at room temp. compared with starting loads from the freezer and see what happens

[bizy]

Interesting... Anyone know any instructions for making homemade firecrackers using blue dot?

[JLA]

i must advise against your inquiry about the firecrackers bizy, a good friend of mine cannot use a keyboard properly because of pipebombs we constructed of schedule 80, pvc cement, model rocket fuses and disassembled 12 ga. shot shells when we were kids. To make a long, rather gruesome story short, the fuse we used turned out to be one of those 'mad-dog' fuses that go fffzzztKA-BOOOOOOOOM, rather than ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffzzztKA-BOOOOOOOOM. We were 12 or 13 years old at the time, and he lost three fingers and part of his thumb on his left hand, most of his left ear, and his hearing in that ear. i come away with a nice scar over my left eye from a piece of the pvc. we are both damn lucky to be alive to recall 'the good ol' days...

[Bigfoot62]

Just thought I'd let everyone know. It's been more than six months since the letter was written, and Blue Dot is still not listed in the Alliant load charts for the 125 grain bullets. See this Link It IS listed for the 110 gr, the 140, 158 and 170 gr bullets. Makes absolutely no sense to me.

Oh, well, I guess I can use Longshot.

[alnico357]

Hello, (1st post)
I've got 93 rounds of BD/Rem 125gr JHP loaded with 11.8 grains. It's from a 1999 pound of powder. Two of those rounds gave me the first 2 duds of my reloading career of 12 years and several thousand rounds of .357. I can't remember if they were fired on a cold day.

I guess I'll have to pull 'em.

[JLA]

better safe than sorry

[army89bravo]

where can i find load data for 300 gr jhp for 45acp using blue dot cause thats what i have but i cant find any load data for the 300 gr? i mainly use blue dot for my 44 mag but im tryin to use it along with my red dot and 2400 and win296 for my 44, my 40 s&w and my 45acp cause i have alot of brass for each that i found and dont want to have to scramble to try to find another type powder. thanks.

[army89bravo]

wonder if u can drop some of the grains on the blue dot and still be able to use it on 357 or the 41.

[JLA]

i dont think you are gonna find blue dot data for the .45 acp. you should be able to use that red dot though. all the other powders you listed are magnum handgun powders and dont lend themselves well to low pressure loadings like the .45 acp...

[Trouble 45-70]

Have used Red Dot with .45 acp and no problems, several thousand rounds. Don't recall the load and cant find my notes as I moved and havn't unpacked everything yet. I am a pretty conservative reloader as I just like to shoot and don't go crazy with velocity.

[JLA]

yes sir trouble. red dot is one of my favorites for .45 acp. It makes a nice big muzzle flash...

[texaspatriot2001]

Bailenforcer....you hit it right on the head...Being myself, of the backwoods redneck version of humanity, I have seen pretty much everything my fellow cultural associates can possibly conjure up wherein firearms, alcoholic beverages, and canine sub-species are concerned. It has always been my opinion that anybody who would feed gun powder to a dog should be neutered with the dog taking his place in the gene pool. I have never found any scientific findings on the theory that feeding a dog rifle powder, or any sort of gun powder, would have any noticable effect of the animals naturally occuring tendencies toward aggressivness. I think it might have some effect on the viscuous effect and properties of his stool perhaps. But, alas, I digress.

Now, in as much as a safety warning concerning reloading practices is concerned, I have always been a member of the school of thought that precludes that less is more and ALWAYS a better place to start. I don't care what you are loading or shooting. A grain or two either way with pretty much any powder can spell danger in loud and booming letters. Having been something of a kitchen table gunsmith most of my life, I have managed to see my share of ruptured receiver rings and pistol frames after some bozo had a go at pushing the envelope. I had one particular idiot that brought me a Mod 700 with a bolt that would not cycle. The damned thing simply wouldn't open. The receiver ring was swollen, the front scope base screws were popped. Upon inspection, I noticed the caliber designation... .458 Winchester Magnum .... Not an unusual caliber in many places. But, here in East Texas it is a bit of a stranger. Especially when deer hunting is accomplished with 30/30's, Ought Sixes, and the occasional 7 Mag. But, yes, this moron was out plinking away at 120 pound whitetails with this thing. But, assuming at that point that the intended target had nothing to do with the current condition of the rifle, I found that he has been attempting to reload. His theory, upon questioning, and giving me a strange look when inquired as to the grains of powder, etc...was to inform me with a straight face, that he put in powder until he couldn't hear it "shakin' around in there anymore after rammin' the chunk of lead down on it"...Takes all kinds I suppose...This idgit should be on his knees thanking Remington Arms for good steel and heat treating practices each and every night at beddy bye time...

[JLA]

ahh, a man cast from me own mold. I too have seen my share of idgits bring their 'bag-guns' in for repair because they got bullet weight confused with charge weight Its amazing how well production forearms are built. One instance i had, and probably the saddest, as far as high dollar firearms destruction goes, was one day i got a call from stu at the gunshop. A man brought in his shiloh montana roughrider chanbered in .45-110. Stu said the lever was stuck and it wouldnt eject the fired case. So I go pick it up and upon questioning the guy i find he crammed 110 gr of smokeless (unknown label) into the case under a 525 gr bullet. Not only did he fire it once but he fired it 3 times before the rifle called it quits. Brass from the casehead had extruded itself between the breeckblock and breechface under .50BMG pressures and had the block wedged in the closed position. It took a large brass punch and a nice big hammer to get the action loose and it was stretched beyond being able to fire another round. the block wouldnt stay up by itself anymore and the firing pin didnt line up with the cartridge. Just another lucky sap that cost himself 3 grand instead of life and limb...