Can't decide. - The Firearms Forum

bunnyhunter12 · 07-02-2007, 05:29 PM

Everyone, I find myself with a hard descision to make. I need a new firearm and can't decide what to buy

.

I'm investigating options and need some input.

I'm looking for a caribou rifle and would like to pick something up on the cheap. The biggest stags around here can getup around 550lbs. but I'll be aiming for about a 250lb doe this year.

Here's the question; at what kind of range can I expect to take a 250lb. animal with an SKS?

For the sake of argument, assume I'm an average marksman, I've taken caribou at 400 yards and more with my .303 but I'm no sniper. Also, I'll most likely be using iron sights though I might mount my 3-9x40 Simmons Eight Point that's been sitting in the den waiting for a rifle to sit on....... if that's possible, I haven't looked in to it.

So now I have two questions:

1. What kind of ranges can I be relatively sure of a one shot kill on a 250lb. doe?

2. How easy is it to mount a scope on an SKS? Is it worth the time and money for the ranges you have in mind for question 1?

Southernshooter, I'm expecting a good response from you man, you seem to be the local SKS (that's Sks Knowledge Supplier).

southernshooter · 07-02-2007, 06:48 PM

I have hunted my whole life with an SKS of one kind or another. I have used it to shoot some monster bucks. And have also used it to shoot some huge hogs. It is a great hunting round. (30 Calibers rule) Once you adjust the iron sights they are quite accurate, And I can see to shoot at 500 yards with the iron sights. Chances are unless you have super superior eyesight and can see miles, If you can see it you can hit it and kill it. As far as a scope goes all you will need to do is change out the receiver cover. The catch is if you use a full size scope you will need a shell deflector due to the shells ejecting straight up. You can use a compact scope and not have to put the deflector on it. A good idea is also to install a recoil buffer. I think Red Star Arms is still making them. I would recommend you finding either a Chinese(Norinco) SKS or a Russian SKS, The Yugo's are reliable guns but the Chinese and Russian SKS's are far more accurate than the Yugo. If you don't like the trigger it comes with Wolf springs sells some that will lighten it up. And you can get all kind of different aftermarket parts like stocks to help control it and shoot better as well as you can ditch the bayonet and put a bayonet mounted bi-pod their. And their are dozens of different kinds of mounts you can use to mount a scope if you decide to scope it I recommend a solid mount rather than a sideplate type and I would use a good 3-9X42 compact scope, But if you wanted to use a full size scope pick up a shell deflector that mounts to the rear sight. And depending how far you want to modify it, You can keep it fairly stock like the first pic or take it extreme like the second pic

WarSteed · 07-02-2007, 06:59 PM

Speaking of adjusting iron sites...how do you adjust the front site on the sks?

Crpdeth · 07-02-2007, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarSteed

Speaking of adjusting iron sites...how do you adjust the front site on the sks?

Here ya go.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/SKS400-817-2697.html

Crpdeth

bunnyhunter12 · 07-02-2007, 07:09 PM

See? I knew I could rely on you Southern. Thanks for the great information, I think you may have single handedly convinced me to buy the SKS and take my caribou with it this year. The money is kind of tight right now so this fall she'll be coming with me copletely stock, except for MAYBE mounting a scope and dropping the bayonet to save weight. We stalk our game on foot and it can make for some long days lugging around excess baggage.

The rifles I've been looking at are Norincos, they're the only ones I can find at the local shops anyway.

I love the look of both of yours there, I think I'll be picking up the Dragunov style stock as soon as the money situation improves. Is it as lightweight as it looks?

Once again, thanks.

southernshooter · 07-02-2007, 08:27 PM

Warsteed, The elevation can also be adjusted for windage the make a small wrench tool to move the front site up and down for elevation, And Crpdeth posted a link for the tool, If you don't want the tool a punch and hammer will crudely work

Bunnyhunter, The skelotenized stock did cut down on the weight a lot and it also make them shoot better, The true pistol grip style of it makes for better control which increse accuracy.

Rommelvon · 07-03-2007, 01:20 AM

yes, an SKS will put a nice leak in a deer, I used an SKS for years untilI got my 300wsm

bunnyhunter12 · 07-03-2007, 04:28 AM

What is a good source for those stocks? I've seen them in Cabela's but is there somewhere cheaper to order one? Cabela's also had a compact scope and mount combo that I think they said was a no-gunsmithing required, bolt on.

That skeletontized stock doesn't come with sling studs does it? I'll really be needing a sling so I'll probably have to look in to mounting some.

southernshooter · 07-03-2007, 05:53 AM

Bunny, I like dealing with these folks. Plus they are usually a little cheaper than the rest. They have a lot of stuff that is hard to find anywhere else.
http://www.centerfiresystems.com/

Light Coat · 07-05-2007, 11:56 PM

I put one of those together for my brother-in-law. Back when you had to make your own mounts for the scope; took some work and came out pretty decent. He can't hit the broad side of a barn; but when I was checking it out I did well at 200 yards. It is adequate and inexpensive to play with.

I never was interested in them; I like using my old 11mm and my .30-06 for hunting. Pretty set in my ways with those two.

bunnyhunter12 · 07-06-2007, 12:14 AM

Well I'm getting around 48 hours a week now and I've got two managers fighting with head office to get me a raise (only been back for a week), so the money might not be as tight as I thought it would be.

I'm still leaning towards the SKS but now I'll have money for a few toys to go with her.

I make it a point never to name any firearm until I get to know her, but I think she'll be named after one of the great female Russian snipers of the Great Patriotic War. Maybe Roza.

polishshooter · 07-06-2007, 09:47 AM

Bunny, now far be it from ME to get between a man and his SKS....

BUT....

Have you CONSIDERED an M44 in 7.62x54?

Winchester, Sellior and Bellot, WOlf, Prvi Partisan are ALL loading it in 150 and 180 grain SPs, it would handle a LOT like your Enfield, and with a $50 ATI synthetic stock, and a cheap 4x Bushnell on my Polish one with the ATI overbore mount, with only freefloating the barrel, getting a bent bolt, and shimming the trigger to lighten it a little I'm shooting an inch and a half with it, my buddy a rifle shooter got a little less, and I'm thinking with handloading I'll have a relatively light, reliable, sturdy, MOA rifle, powerful enough for anything on this continent!

My RUSSIAN "Scout" that I did up the almost the same way only with a cheaper and easier "no Gunsmithing" (yeah RIGHT, maybe one made out of STEEL, but not my "cheap" aluminum one!

) mount and a cheap NC Star 4x EER scope is shooting 2" with the same ammo, and MAYBE would be even better, plus you don't need the bent bolt and can use strippers....

Then you can be a REAL "Snayperskaya!" And even if you used a "better" scope, you'd probably have about the same amount into it as the "modified" SKS....LESS if you used the "stock" stock.....

And I will NOT second guess anybody using the x39 on anything larger than deer, oif they say it works, but correct me if I'm wrong, isn't the x39 about the same power as a .30-30? It is probably more intrinsically ACCURATE than the .30-30, and the SKS is at LEAST as accurate as a "typical" lever action, probably more, but isn't a .30-30 considered a little LIGHT for a MINIMUM 250lbs animal at more than 100yds?

I mean, a 250 lb DEER is about the BIGGEST you'd ever (rarely) shoot, most would go only 100-170 live weight, and most are shot under 100 yds, it seems like a 'bou would be that much or more for a TYPICAL shot....right?

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't hesitate to use my SKS for deer if I could use rifles and DIDN'T have the modified M44s...and EVERYBODY needs to won at least ONE

BUT I'm not so sure for Caribou....but then I've never shot one and you have, AND I've not yet used my SKS for hunting, and Southern has, so they would know better....all I know is I would rather use my "sport" Mosins in the same situation....

Plus the your "Bleeding Heart Liberal Brethren" would probably sleep easier KNOWING you weren't traisping around the tundra with an (GASP!) ASSAULT rifle....

Next thing you know sombody will claim you are bayoneting BABY SEALS or something and we'll see you on 20/20 or 60 Minutes....

bunnyhunter12 · 07-06-2007, 12:23 PM

Polish, I have actually considered the M44 as I 've seen a few in the "Buy and Sell" magazine, but they seem to have all switched hands and the new owners are keeping them.

I have to explain a little something here. I'm very limited on where I can pick up a rifle as, on the island (now keep in mind as I've said before this isalnd is about the size of your average State like, say, North Dakota and has a population of ~466,000) we have, I think, two "gun shops" and only a handful of sporting goods stores that sell firearms.

I can usually find something interesting in private sales but people are usually asking WAY too much for any kind of rifle.

That being said, I know I can get my hands on a new condition SKS and Put boxes of ammo through it on a regular basis to improve my skills. As well, the area I'll be hunting this year is back far enough in the country and is hard enough to get to (six hours to cover eleven miles through the worst bog and mires you've ever seen on an ATV) that the animals haven't been spooked and are so docile you can get in to some very short ranges.

This is why I'm looking for a purpose built short range rifle, I've seen what happens when animals are shot from up too close with a high velocity round like .303 or .30-06, you punch a nice, neat hole on either side but the bullet doesn't expand enough to cause much damage.

This, coupled with the fact that my father is coming with us this year and will be toting one of the Enfields, I feel we can handle any animal at any range with one of the two rifles. The, yet to be named SKS will be for close in work and Sharlene (named after dad's sister not Pyle's M14) can throw it out to the critters that we can't get close to.

One of these days I'll be having something chambered in 7.62x54R but for now I think x39 will suit just fine.

As for accuracy, I'm not a target shooter, I only punch paper to get my huntng skills where they need to be. I shoot enough to be proficcient but I don't worry about sub MOA results. As Chuck Hawk's wrote in one of his articles on sub MOA rifles, "they're nice, but completely unneccessary for hunting". As he says, the kill zone on something the size of a deer is eight inches so to be conservative we'll say you need to put a bullet into a SIX inch circle. For a 200yd. rifle like a .30-30 or 7.62x39 this means 3MOA to get into that six inch circle at 200 yards. 3 MOA is NOT impressive at the range but realistically, it's perfect for hunting.

polishshooter · 07-06-2007, 04:05 PM

I hear you Bunny...

And for what it's worth, a lot of PA hunters say the same thing about their lever guns...6" at 100 is a "Minute-of-Deer."

Plus I can second what SS said about Centerfire Systems, I have dealt with them in person at their warehouse and they are good people....

07-02-2007, 05:29 PM	#1
bunnyhunter12 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 1,090	Can't decide. Everyone, I find myself with a hard descision to make. I need a new firearm and can't decide what to buy . I'm investigating options and need some input. I'm looking for a caribou rifle and would like to pick something up on the cheap. The biggest stags around here can getup around 550lbs. but I'll be aiming for about a 250lb doe this year. Here's the question; at what kind of range can I expect to take a 250lb. animal with an SKS? For the sake of argument, assume I'm an average marksman, I've taken caribou at 400 yards and more with my .303 but I'm no sniper. Also, I'll most likely be using iron sights though I might mount my 3-9x40 Simmons Eight Point that's been sitting in the den waiting for a rifle to sit on....... if that's possible, I haven't looked in to it. So now I have two questions: 1. What kind of ranges can I be relatively sure of a one shot kill on a 250lb. doe? 2. How easy is it to mount a scope on an SKS? Is it worth the time and money for the ranges you have in mind for question 1? Southernshooter, I'm expecting a good response from you man, you seem to be the local SKS (that's Sks Knowledge Supplier). __________________ Quaerite Prime Regnum Dei~ Official motto of Newfoundland If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government --and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws. -- Edward Abbey in Abbey's Road, p.39 (Plume, 1979) -Smitty -->

07-02-2007, 06:48 PM	#2
southernshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Deep South Mississippi Posts: 5,943	Re: Can't decide. I have hunted my whole life with an SKS of one kind or another. I have used it to shoot some monster bucks. And have also used it to shoot some huge hogs. It is a great hunting round. (30 Calibers rule) Once you adjust the iron sights they are quite accurate, And I can see to shoot at 500 yards with the iron sights. Chances are unless you have super superior eyesight and can see miles, If you can see it you can hit it and kill it. As far as a scope goes all you will need to do is change out the receiver cover. The catch is if you use a full size scope you will need a shell deflector due to the shells ejecting straight up. You can use a compact scope and not have to put the deflector on it. A good idea is also to install a recoil buffer. I think Red Star Arms is still making them. I would recommend you finding either a Chinese(Norinco) SKS or a Russian SKS, The Yugo's are reliable guns but the Chinese and Russian SKS's are far more accurate than the Yugo. If you don't like the trigger it comes with Wolf springs sells some that will lighten it up. And you can get all kind of different aftermarket parts like stocks to help control it and shoot better as well as you can ditch the bayonet and put a bayonet mounted bi-pod their. And their are dozens of different kinds of mounts you can use to mount a scope if you decide to scope it I recommend a solid mount rather than a sideplate type and I would use a good 3-9X42 compact scope, But if you wanted to use a full size scope pick up a shell deflector that mounts to the rear sight. And depending how far you want to modify it, You can keep it fairly stock like the first pic or take it extreme like the second pic Attached Images __________________ Only you can see this

07-02-2007, 06:59 PM	#3
WarSteed V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 188	Re: Can't decide. Speaking of adjusting iron sites...how do you adjust the front site on the sks?

07-02-2007, 07:09 PM	#5
bunnyhunter12 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 1,090	Re: Can't decide. See? I knew I could rely on you Southern. Thanks for the great information, I think you may have single handedly convinced me to buy the SKS and take my caribou with it this year. The money is kind of tight right now so this fall she'll be coming with me copletely stock, except for MAYBE mounting a scope and dropping the bayonet to save weight. We stalk our game on foot and it can make for some long days lugging around excess baggage. The rifles I've been looking at are Norincos, they're the only ones I can find at the local shops anyway. I love the look of both of yours there, I think I'll be picking up the Dragunov style stock as soon as the money situation improves. Is it as lightweight as it looks? Once again, thanks. __________________ Quaerite Prime Regnum Dei~ Official motto of Newfoundland If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government --and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws. -- Edward Abbey in Abbey's Road, p.39 (Plume, 1979) -Smitty

07-02-2007, 08:27 PM	#6
southernshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Deep South Mississippi Posts: 5,943	Re: Can't decide. Warsteed, The elevation can also be adjusted for windage the make a small wrench tool to move the front site up and down for elevation, And Crpdeth posted a link for the tool, If you don't want the tool a punch and hammer will crudely work Bunnyhunter, The skelotenized stock did cut down on the weight a lot and it also make them shoot better, The true pistol grip style of it makes for better control which increse accuracy. __________________ Only you can see this

07-03-2007, 01:20 AM	#7
Rommelvon Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Goldsboro, NC Posts: 1,452	Re: Can't decide. yes, an SKS will put a nice leak in a deer, I used an SKS for years untilI got my 300wsm __________________ When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. --Thomas Jefferson American By Birth, Southern By The Grace Of God Deo vindice "Duty is the most sublime word in our language. Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more. You should never wish to do less.” Robert E Lee

07-03-2007, 04:28 AM	#8
bunnyhunter12 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 1,090	Re: Can't decide. What is a good source for those stocks? I've seen them in Cabela's but is there somewhere cheaper to order one? Cabela's also had a compact scope and mount combo that I think they said was a no-gunsmithing required, bolt on. That skeletontized stock doesn't come with sling studs does it? I'll really be needing a sling so I'll probably have to look in to mounting some. __________________ Quaerite Prime Regnum Dei~ Official motto of Newfoundland If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government --and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws. -- Edward Abbey in Abbey's Road, p.39 (Plume, 1979) -Smitty

07-03-2007, 05:53 AM	#9
southernshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Deep South Mississippi Posts: 5,943	Re: Can't decide. Bunny, I like dealing with these folks. Plus they are usually a little cheaper than the rest. They have a lot of stuff that is hard to find anywhere else. http://www.centerfiresystems.com/ __________________ Only you can see this

07-05-2007, 11:56 PM	#10
Light Coat V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Middle of Nowhere, KS Posts: 466	Re: Can't decide. I put one of those together for my brother-in-law. Back when you had to make your own mounts for the scope; took some work and came out pretty decent. He can't hit the broad side of a barn; but when I was checking it out I did well at 200 yards. It is adequate and inexpensive to play with. I never was interested in them; I like using my old 11mm and my .30-06 for hunting. Pretty set in my ways with those two.

07-06-2007, 12:14 AM	#11
bunnyhunter12 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 1,090	Re: Can't decide. Well I'm getting around 48 hours a week now and I've got two managers fighting with head office to get me a raise (only been back for a week), so the money might not be as tight as I thought it would be. I'm still leaning towards the SKS but now I'll have money for a few toys to go with her. I make it a point never to name any firearm until I get to know her, but I think she'll be named after one of the great female Russian snipers of the Great Patriotic War. Maybe Roza. __________________ Quaerite Prime Regnum Dei~ Official motto of Newfoundland If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government --and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws. -- Edward Abbey in Abbey's Road, p.39 (Plume, 1979) -Smitty

07-06-2007, 09:47 AM	#12
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,860	Re: Can't decide. Bunny, now far be it from ME to get between a man and his SKS.... BUT.... Have you CONSIDERED an M44 in 7.62x54? Winchester, Sellior and Bellot, WOlf, Prvi Partisan are ALL loading it in 150 and 180 grain SPs, it would handle a LOT like your Enfield, and with a $50 ATI synthetic stock, and a cheap 4x Bushnell on my Polish one with the ATI overbore mount, with only freefloating the barrel, getting a bent bolt, and shimming the trigger to lighten it a little I'm shooting an inch and a half with it, my buddy a rifle shooter got a little less, and I'm thinking with handloading I'll have a relatively light, reliable, sturdy, MOA rifle, powerful enough for anything on this continent! My RUSSIAN "Scout" that I did up the almost the same way only with a cheaper and easier "no Gunsmithing" (yeah RIGHT, maybe one made out of STEEL, but not my "cheap" aluminum one! ) mount and a cheap NC Star 4x EER scope is shooting 2" with the same ammo, and MAYBE would be even better, plus you don't need the bent bolt and can use strippers.... Then you can be a REAL "Snayperskaya!" And even if you used a "better" scope, you'd probably have about the same amount into it as the "modified" SKS....LESS if you used the "stock" stock..... And I will NOT second guess anybody using the x39 on anything larger than deer, oif they say it works, but correct me if I'm wrong, isn't the x39 about the same power as a .30-30? It is probably more intrinsically ACCURATE than the .30-30, and the SKS is at LEAST as accurate as a "typical" lever action, probably more, but isn't a .30-30 considered a little LIGHT for a MINIMUM 250lbs animal at more than 100yds? I mean, a 250 lb DEER is about the BIGGEST you'd ever (rarely) shoot, most would go only 100-170 live weight, and most are shot under 100 yds, it seems like a 'bou would be that much or more for a TYPICAL shot....right? Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't hesitate to use my SKS for deer if I could use rifles and DIDN'T have the modified M44s...and EVERYBODY needs to won at least ONE BUT I'm not so sure for Caribou....but then I've never shot one and you have, AND I've not yet used my SKS for hunting, and Southern has, so they would know better....all I know is I would rather use my "sport" Mosins in the same situation.... Plus the your "Bleeding Heart Liberal Brethren" would probably sleep easier KNOWING you weren't traisping around the tundra with an (GASP!) ASSAULT rifle.... Next thing you know sombody will claim you are bayoneting BABY SEALS or something and we'll see you on 20/20 or 60 Minutes.... __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living. Last edited by polishshooter; 07-06-2007 at 09:52 AM..

07-06-2007, 12:23 PM	#13
bunnyhunter12 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 1,090	Re: Can't decide. Polish, I have actually considered the M44 as I 've seen a few in the "Buy and Sell" magazine, but they seem to have all switched hands and the new owners are keeping them. I have to explain a little something here. I'm very limited on where I can pick up a rifle as, on the island (now keep in mind as I've said before this isalnd is about the size of your average State like, say, North Dakota and has a population of ~466,000) we have, I think, two "gun shops" and only a handful of sporting goods stores that sell firearms. I can usually find something interesting in private sales but people are usually asking WAY too much for any kind of rifle. That being said, I know I can get my hands on a new condition SKS and Put boxes of ammo through it on a regular basis to improve my skills. As well, the area I'll be hunting this year is back far enough in the country and is hard enough to get to (six hours to cover eleven miles through the worst bog and mires you've ever seen on an ATV) that the animals haven't been spooked and are so docile you can get in to some very short ranges. This is why I'm looking for a purpose built short range rifle, I've seen what happens when animals are shot from up too close with a high velocity round like .303 or .30-06, you punch a nice, neat hole on either side but the bullet doesn't expand enough to cause much damage. This, coupled with the fact that my father is coming with us this year and will be toting one of the Enfields, I feel we can handle any animal at any range with one of the two rifles. The, yet to be named SKS will be for close in work and Sharlene (named after dad's sister not Pyle's M14) can throw it out to the critters that we can't get close to. One of these days I'll be having something chambered in 7.62x54R but for now I think x39 will suit just fine. As for accuracy, I'm not a target shooter, I only punch paper to get my huntng skills where they need to be. I shoot enough to be proficcient but I don't worry about sub MOA results. As Chuck Hawk's wrote in one of his articles on sub MOA rifles, "they're nice, but completely unneccessary for hunting". As he says, the kill zone on something the size of a deer is eight inches so to be conservative we'll say you need to put a bullet into a SIX inch circle. For a 200yd. rifle like a .30-30 or 7.62x39 this means 3MOA to get into that six inch circle at 200 yards. 3 MOA is NOT impressive at the range but realistically, it's perfect for hunting. __________________ Quaerite Prime Regnum Dei~ Official motto of Newfoundland If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government --and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws. -- Edward Abbey in Abbey's Road, p.39 (Plume, 1979) -Smitty

07-06-2007, 04:05 PM	#14
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,860	Re: Can't decide. I hear you Bunny... And for what it's worth, a lot of PA hunters say the same thing about their lever guns...6" at 100 is a "Minute-of-Deer." Plus I can second what SS said about Centerfire Systems, I have dealt with them in person at their warehouse and they are good people.... __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.