Say what, Live Free or Die..... - The Firearms Forum

Shizamus · 06-16-2003, 05:33 PM

NASHUA - A city man faces up to $1,000 in fines and a year in jail after
he was arrested for allegedly walking on a downtown street with a loaded
gun concealed in a holster.
Police arrested Peter Lachapelle, 29, of 89 ½ Pine St., after allegedly
discovering a Colt .45-caliber semiautomatic concealed in a holster he
was allegedly wearing on his hip, said police Sgt. Peter Bouchard. "It's
a pretty good-size gun," said Bouchard.
Officer Michael Fauteux stopped Lachapelle for questioning at the corner
of Central and Ash streets about 8 p.m. after observing a completely
closed holster on Lachapelle's hip, Bouchard said.
When questioning Lachapelle about why he was carrying the weapon,
Lachapelle allegedly told police that it was his "God-given right."
New Hampshire law states a person 21 and older must have a license to
carry a loaded concealed weapon.
Because no part of the weapon was showing, and it was loaded, Lachapelle
was arrested and charged with first offense carrying a concealed weapon
without a license, a misdemeanor punishable by up to a year in jail, a
$1,000 fine, or both.
A second offense of carrying a concealed weapon without a license is a
Class B felony.
Lachapelle was being held in the Nashua Police Department on Tuesday
night.

UNCONSTITUTIONAL LAWS AT WORK !

06-16-2003, 06:05 PM

wait a minute Shiz, did you personally hear GOD give Peter Lachapelle permission to carry that concealed weapon without a permit?

JohnK3 · 06-17-2003, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zigzag2
wait a minute Shiz, did you personally hear GOD give Peter Lachapelle permission to carry that concealed weapon without a permit?

Shiz didn't say that God gave him the right. He said:

Lachapelle ALLEGEDLY told police that it was his "God-given right."

While Shiz sometimes puts out some pretty serious conspiracy-theory fare and can be a little over the top in my book, he appears to be reporting the incident pretty straight in this case.

1952Sniper · 06-18-2003, 07:46 AM

I consider all "rights" to be God-given.

Man does not grant you any rights. He only takes them away. The only thing man can grant is "priveleges".

moose_shooter · 06-18-2003, 11:46 AM

Ok, if it was completly enclosed in a holster, how did the officer know he had a gun?

Profiling? Sounds like unreasonable search and siezure to me!
Hum, I wonder what the effect on crime rates would be if citizens started wearing completly closed (but empty) holsters on their hips.

1952Sniper · 06-18-2003, 11:50 AM

moose_shooter, I had that same idea a while back. I was thinking that I should start carrying around a holster that would hold my cigarettes and lighter, or candy bars or something harmless. And see how much hassling I get from the police. Obviously they would want to stop me and check me out. But I wonder how many would try to charge me with some kind of crime. It would be interesting to see their made-up charges.

06-18-2003, 11:54 AM

JohnK3, the point I was making was Shiz's complete article and now followed up with 1952Snipers 'I consider all "rights" to be God-given' ... easily taken out of context.

I was just pokin' fun... that's all.

JohnK3 · 06-18-2003, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zigzag2
JohnK3, the point I was making was Shiz's complete article and now followed up with 1952Snipers 'I consider all "rights" to be God-given' ... easily taken out of context.

I was just pokin' fun... that's all.

Ah...no prob.

[grin]

I kinda like Sniper's idea: Wear a holster with NOTHING IN IT.

See how far you can get wearing it.

BTW, I applied for my GA CCW today. DeKalb County sure makes it tough: First, to the Probate Court in downtown Decatur to get the application, fill it out and pay $18. Then, take it to the Public Safety building about 3 miles away to pay a $5 fingerprint fee and a $24 GBI/FBI background check. In about 3-5 months, I should have my CCW.

The things we have to endure, just to excercise our rights.

Shizamus · 06-18-2003, 11:04 PM

The things we have to endure, just to excersise our rights.

Should it be : just to excersise our privileges ?

If we had rights we would not have to endure these things ?

Did you have to specify which firearm ?

I'M JUST HERE FOR MORAL SUPPORT. IGNORE THE GUN.

LewairLavell · 06-19-2003, 12:48 AM

I wrote a long schpiel. Just background info/extraneous information that's not really relevant. Sorry if it's unappropriate but ahh well, I wrote it so I figure I'll post it. If you wanna just read the pertinate part skip to after the few asterisks.

.........................................................................................................

Well, a little known fact here in Texas at least....

You have the right to say "NO, you CAN NOT search my person or my vehicle or my house, get a search warrant."

I say all three of those things (person, vehicle, and home/property) but they really fall into separate categories for searching. Vehicles and person are treated different because they're mobile, therefore causing lack of preservation of a crime.

Property is easy. You say "No, get a warrant." They have to get a warrant. They have to get evidence of some nature of a crime, take it before a judge and then they can come search at will. Pretty easy to avoid, cops have to really want to do it cause a judge is involved.

Vehicles are a little different. In Texas, the only officer who can search your vehicle without probable cause is a game warden, again because of perservation of a crime due to mobility. Otherwise you have to give expressed consent to let them search the vehicle, which a lot of people do without realizing it. If you say no, and the officer is insistant on the search, most really they can do is get a dog out to go over the car on the exterior and hope for a hit that would give them probable cause to search the interior.

Now I speak of property and vehicles when the topic is brought up about earching one's person, only to bring up the point of probable cause and give a little understanding as to how it would play in a matter as the original post's news story is about.

To search your person, in Texas, you have to give consent to the officer and you have the right to have another officer present during the search. Unless they have probable cause, they can't search you without your concent, and you can always refuse search until a second officer is present. General probable cause for searching one's person; evading in any manner, sticking things in your pockets when they approach, not presenting valid IDs, any signs of intoxication, plus a few others I'm just not thinking of right now.

****************************************************

Now, lets get to the guns. I think you'd all agree that if I took a completely opaque plastic and wrapped it around a pistol, so that the overall shape and features of it were still visible, strapped it to my hip and walked around, I'd probably get stopped without question. The gun isn't concealed.

The question here is, if you can see the features of a gun underneath some sort of covering material, is it truely concealed? What does it take to 'conceal' a handgun? I'd personally think that if you have a holster shaped object strapped to your hip, it's probably a gun. If I were a cop, I'd definitely would be concerned that it might be a gun and stop you to check and make sure that if it is, it's legal. Then I'd probably discuss my opinions on the meaning of the word 'concealment' with you.

A shoulder slug pistol case you wear under a jacket or shirt that gives the appearance of an individual not carrying anything or not having anything visibly strapped to them, I would think is by definition 'concealed'. Concealment imples they don't know you've got it. If it's on your hip, well it's obvious isn't it?

Now, 1952Sniper, as far as the suggestion goes of strapping an empty holster on, I say this: You know you're asking for trouble. If I'm a cop and I stop you and you show me candy bars and smokes, I'm gonna give you **** for not buying a fannypack or a backpack to carry that in. Hell, get a purse

. Don't waste the time of an officer looking for real trouble by giving him petty things to deal with. I find it interesting that I hear people coming up with silly ideas to waste a cops time then I hear people say cops don't spend enough time fighting real crime.

What's the definition of concealment as applied to handguns?

One other point too about the original post. If I'm not mistaken, the constitution says noting about the government being able to regulate or license the ownership of firearms. It simply gaurantees your right to have them. The gentleman in question didn't get arrested for having the firearm. He got arrested cause he didn't have the license. They are 2 completely different things.

FN_Project90 · 06-19-2003, 04:06 AM

Posted by: JohnK3
"BTW, I applied for my GA CCW today. DeKalb County sure makes it tough: First, to the Probate Court in downtown Decatur to get the application, fill it out and pay $18. Then, take it to the Public Safety building about 3 miles away to pay a $5 fingerprint fee and a $24 GBI/FBI background check. In about 3-5 months, I should have my CCW." to lazy to do it the normal way, and that way is annoying to me

yeah that is gonna take anywhere from 1 to 6 months, in cobb its the same but, its 18+5 at one place and they are at the same spot, just 150 feet away to the finger print. Applied for mine a while back. Getting a gun takes some about 30 seconds for the background check to clear, mine takes at least 2 hours, never had anything on my record EVER!!! guess they look hard to make sure each time?

whats the point of no more than 10 rounds? I could just carry more clips *shrugs* or use the rounds I have better. on the flip side why is it important to have more than 10? If you can't hit it in 10 rounds just give up, and if you get yourself into a rut where you need more than 20 rounds, you sould not have gotten into it... hehe

*hugs LL* hehe breath of fresh air mate.

1952Sniper · 06-19-2003, 08:20 AM

Lewair Lavell, my idea of carrying an empty holster was in jest. I agree that it would just be asking for harrassment. Although it does raise a valid point about just exactly what authority an officer has to search you or detain you. Just because you're wearing a holster, does that automatically mean you're carrying a handgun? Is an empty holster considered "probably cause"?

You also bring up a good point about the Game Warden thing here in Texas. Shizamus was kind enough to send me some disturbing informational videos on this kind of BS in Texas. Federal funding being used by a MJTF (multi-jurisdictional task forces), consisting of city police, highway patrols, Game Wardens, and federal investigators to perform random checkpoints along Texas highways in the name of "checking for seatbelt use". They bring the Game Warden along as an excuse to search your vehicle with no probable cause. It is harrassment of citizens and jack-booted thug mentality gone wild! It is blatantly unconstitutional and frightening, and is a misuse of power.

LewairLavell · 06-19-2003, 09:45 AM

At least it's not near as bad here in Texas as it was in Louisiana about 5 years ago. NBC's Dateline news crew even did a special report on the LA Highway Patrol. What they were finding out was that in LA, they would impound your vehicle after stopping you for no reason. Dateline got it all on tape, and I understand it's a little calmer now, but there are still isolated incidents that still occur. And I fear that since 9/11 these numbers are on the rise!

1952Sniper · 06-19-2003, 01:29 PM

One of my buddies in Houston has a sister who was on her way to Florida to buy a new boat. She brought cash with her to make the transaction. On I-10 in Louisiana, she was stopped for speeding. The police arrested her for having "too much money" in the car, and impounded her vehicle. They kept the cash.

No proof, mind you, that anything was going on other than her being on her way to Florida to buy a boat. Apparently it's illegal in these United States to drive around with thousands of dollars in cash with you. You MUST be a drug dealer. And our beloved Federal Government allows, even encourages, this type of behavior to go on.

FN_Project90 · 06-19-2003, 01:41 PM

*does the taz thing*
man that chaps my caboose
ARGH!
but seriously whats the point of carrying 4 clips with 17 rounds+ a piece with your glock? does everyone find themselves in a John Woo flick on there jaunt home from work frequently?

1952Sniper · 06-19-2003, 02:56 PM

If that's how you feel, then what's the point of carrying a firearm at all?

I'm constantly amazed at the arguments coming from the anti-gun camp. They seem to think that 10 shots will allow you to defend yourself, but 11 shots will make you a cold-blooded killer.

Where's the logic?

If you're going to carry a concealed weapon, or any weapon at all for that matter, you might as well carry as much ammunition as you can comfortably deal with. I'd rather fire 20 rounds when I only needed 10, than fire 10 shots when I really needed 20.

My concealed handgun setup is for 8+1 in the gun, plus two more 8-round mags ready to go. I may consider some higher-capacity mags if it's feasible.

FN_Project90 · 06-19-2003, 03:54 PM

I was pokin' satire ole' buddy
rofl
my point is simply you never know whats going to happen
I think that is funny if someone really wants to get high cap mags and start world war three they can still do it even after the ban, its just silly.

Sir Bug · 06-19-2003, 11:41 PM

JohnK3,

Here in North Carolina, the costs to get a CCW permit includes - $175.00 for the class and $165.00 for the Sheriff dept.'s application. What capped it all was when I went to pick up the permit, they charged $5.00 to laminate it.

Oh, BTW, don't forget the cost of a good concealable holster, clip pouches and, perhaps, a weapon that conceals well.

Your Friend in Dixie,

Sir Bug

06-16-2003, 05:33 PM	#1
Shizamus Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Vermont Posts: 891	Say what, Live Free or Die..... NASHUA - A city man faces up to $1,000 in fines and a year in jail after he was arrested for allegedly walking on a downtown street with a loaded gun concealed in a holster. Police arrested Peter Lachapelle, 29, of 89 ½ Pine St., after allegedly discovering a Colt .45-caliber semiautomatic concealed in a holster he was allegedly wearing on his hip, said police Sgt. Peter Bouchard. "It's a pretty good-size gun," said Bouchard. Officer Michael Fauteux stopped Lachapelle for questioning at the corner of Central and Ash streets about 8 p.m. after observing a completely closed holster on Lachapelle's hip, Bouchard said. When questioning Lachapelle about why he was carrying the weapon, Lachapelle allegedly told police that it was his "God-given right." New Hampshire law states a person 21 and older must have a license to carry a loaded concealed weapon. Because no part of the weapon was showing, and it was loaded, Lachapelle was arrested and charged with first offense carrying a concealed weapon without a license, a misdemeanor punishable by up to a year in jail, a $1,000 fine, or both. A second offense of carrying a concealed weapon without a license is a Class B felony. Lachapelle was being held in the Nashua Police Department on Tuesday night. UNCONSTITUTIONAL LAWS AT WORK ! -->

06-19-2003, 12:48 AM	#10
LewairLavell Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 24	I wrote a long schpiel. Just background info/extraneous information that's not really relevant. Sorry if it's unappropriate but ahh well, I wrote it so I figure I'll post it. If you wanna just read the pertinate part skip to after the few asterisks. ......................................................................................................... Well, a little known fact here in Texas at least.... You have the right to say "NO, you CAN NOT search my person or my vehicle or my house, get a search warrant." I say all three of those things (person, vehicle, and home/property) but they really fall into separate categories for searching. Vehicles and person are treated different because they're mobile, therefore causing lack of preservation of a crime. Property is easy. You say "No, get a warrant." They have to get a warrant. They have to get evidence of some nature of a crime, take it before a judge and then they can come search at will. Pretty easy to avoid, cops have to really want to do it cause a judge is involved. Vehicles are a little different. In Texas, the only officer who can search your vehicle without probable cause is a game warden, again because of perservation of a crime due to mobility. Otherwise you have to give expressed consent to let them search the vehicle, which a lot of people do without realizing it. If you say no, and the officer is insistant on the search, most really they can do is get a dog out to go over the car on the exterior and hope for a hit that would give them probable cause to search the interior. Now I speak of property and vehicles when the topic is brought up about earching one's person, only to bring up the point of probable cause and give a little understanding as to how it would play in a matter as the original post's news story is about. To search your person, in Texas, you have to give consent to the officer and you have the right to have another officer present during the search. Unless they have probable cause, they can't search you without your concent, and you can always refuse search until a second officer is present. General probable cause for searching one's person; evading in any manner, sticking things in your pockets when they approach, not presenting valid IDs, any signs of intoxication, plus a few others I'm just not thinking of right now. ************************************************** Now, lets get to the guns. I think you'd all agree that if I took a completely opaque plastic and wrapped it around a pistol, so that the overall shape and features of it were still visible, strapped it to my hip and walked around, I'd probably get stopped without question. The gun isn't concealed. The question here is, if you can see the features of a gun underneath some sort of covering material, is it truely concealed? What does it take to 'conceal' a handgun? I'd personally think that if you have a holster shaped object strapped to your hip, it's probably a gun. If I were a cop, I'd definitely would be concerned that it might be a gun and stop you to check and make sure that if it is, it's legal. Then I'd probably discuss my opinions on the meaning of the word 'concealment' with you. A shoulder slug pistol case you wear under a jacket or shirt that gives the appearance of an individual not carrying anything or not having anything visibly strapped to them, I would think is by definition 'concealed'. Concealment imples they don't know you've got it. If it's on your hip, well it's obvious isn't it? Now, 1952Sniper, as far as the suggestion goes of strapping an empty holster on, I say this: You know you're asking for trouble. If I'm a cop and I stop you and you show me candy bars and smokes, I'm gonna give you ** for not buying a fannypack or a backpack to carry that in. Hell, get a purse . Don't waste the time of an officer looking for real trouble by giving him petty things to deal with. I find it interesting that I hear people coming up with silly ideas to waste a cops time then I hear people say cops don't spend enough time fighting real crime. What's the definition of concealment as applied to handguns? One other point too about the original post. If I'm not mistaken, the constitution says noting about the government being able to regulate or license the ownership of firearms. It simply gaurantees your right to have them. The gentleman in question didn't get arrested for having the firearm. He got arrested cause he didn't have the license. They are 2 completely different things. __________________ Last edited by LewairLavell; 06-19-2003 at 12:53 AM..

06-19-2003, 04:06 AM	#11
FN_Project90 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA, USA Posts: 803	Posted by: JohnK3 "BTW, I applied for my GA CCW today. DeKalb County sure makes it tough: First, to the Probate Court in downtown Decatur to get the application, fill it out and pay $18. Then, take it to the Public Safety building about 3 miles away to pay a $5 fingerprint fee and a $24 GBI/FBI background check. In about 3-5 months, I should have my CCW." to lazy to do it the normal way, and that way is annoying to me yeah that is gonna take anywhere from 1 to 6 months, in cobb its the same but, its 18+5 at one place and they are at the same spot, just 150 feet away to the finger print. Applied for mine a while back. Getting a gun takes some about 30 seconds for the background check to clear, mine takes at least 2 hours, never had anything on my record EVER!!! guess they look hard to make sure each time? whats the point of no more than 10 rounds? I could just carry more clips shrugs or use the rounds I have better. on the flip side why is it important to have more than 10? If you can't hit it in 10 rounds just give up, and if you get yourself into a rut where you need more than 20 rounds, you sould not have gotten into it... hehe hugs LL hehe breath of fresh air mate. __________________ Things n' Stuff

06-19-2003, 09:45 AM	#13
LewairLavell Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 24	At least it's not near as bad here in Texas as it was in Louisiana about 5 years ago. NBC's Dateline news crew even did a special report on the LA Highway Patrol. What they were finding out was that in LA, they would impound your vehicle after stopping you for no reason. Dateline got it all on tape, and I understand it's a little calmer now, but there are still isolated incidents that still occur. And I fear that since 9/11 these numbers are on the rise! __________________

06-19-2003, 01:41 PM	#15
FN_Project90 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA, USA Posts: 803	does the taz thing man that chaps my caboose ARGH! but seriously whats the point of carrying 4 clips with 17 rounds+ a piece with your glock? does everyone find themselves in a John Woo flick on there jaunt home from work frequently? __________________ Things n' Stuff

06-16-2003, 06:05 PM	#2
Zigzag2 Adnanced Senior Member Posts: n/a	wait a minute Shiz, did you personally hear GOD give Peter Lachapelle permission to carry that concealed weapon without a permit?

06-18-2003, 07:46 AM	#4
1952Sniper Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 5,138	I consider all "rights" to be God-given. Man does not grant you any rights. He only takes them away. The only thing man can grant is "priveleges".

06-18-2003, 11:46 AM	#5
moose_shooter Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 15	Ok, if it was completly enclosed in a holster, how did the officer know he had a gun? Profiling? Sounds like unreasonable search and siezure to me! Hum, I wonder what the effect on crime rates would be if citizens started wearing completly closed (but empty) holsters on their hips.

06-18-2003, 11:50 AM	#6
1952Sniper Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 5,138	moose_shooter, I had that same idea a while back. I was thinking that I should start carrying around a holster that would hold my cigarettes and lighter, or candy bars or something harmless. And see how much hassling I get from the police. Obviously they would want to stop me and check me out. But I wonder how many would try to charge me with some kind of crime. It would be interesting to see their made-up charges.

06-18-2003, 11:54 AM	#7
Zigzag2 Adnanced Senior Member Posts: n/a	JohnK3, the point I was making was Shiz's complete article and now followed up with 1952Snipers 'I consider all "rights" to be God-given' ... easily taken out of context. I was just pokin' fun... that's all.

06-18-2003, 11:04 PM	#9
Shizamus Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Vermont Posts: 891	The things we have to endure, just to excersise our rights. Should it be : just to excersise our privileges ? If we had rights we would not have to endure these things ? Did you have to specify which firearm ? I'M JUST HERE FOR MORAL SUPPORT. IGNORE THE GUN.

06-19-2003, 08:20 AM	#12
1952Sniper Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 5,138	Lewair Lavell, my idea of carrying an empty holster was in jest. I agree that it would just be asking for harrassment. Although it does raise a valid point about just exactly what authority an officer has to search you or detain you. Just because you're wearing a holster, does that automatically mean you're carrying a handgun? Is an empty holster considered "probably cause"? You also bring up a good point about the Game Warden thing here in Texas. Shizamus was kind enough to send me some disturbing informational videos on this kind of BS in Texas. Federal funding being used by a MJTF (multi-jurisdictional task forces), consisting of city police, highway patrols, Game Wardens, and federal investigators to perform random checkpoints along Texas highways in the name of "checking for seatbelt use". They bring the Game Warden along as an excuse to search your vehicle with no probable cause. It is harrassment of citizens and jack-booted thug mentality gone wild! It is blatantly unconstitutional and frightening, and is a misuse of power.

06-19-2003, 01:29 PM	#14
1952Sniper Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 5,138	One of my buddies in Houston has a sister who was on her way to Florida to buy a new boat. She brought cash with her to make the transaction. On I-10 in Louisiana, she was stopped for speeding. The police arrested her for having "too much money" in the car, and impounded her vehicle. They kept the cash. No proof, mind you, that anything was going on other than her being on her way to Florida to buy a boat. Apparently it's illegal in these United States to drive around with thousands of dollars in cash with you. You MUST be a drug dealer. And our beloved Federal Government allows, even encourages, this type of behavior to go on.

06-19-2003, 02:56 PM	#16
1952Sniper Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 5,138	If that's how you feel, then what's the point of carrying a firearm at all? I'm constantly amazed at the arguments coming from the anti-gun camp. They seem to think that 10 shots will allow you to defend yourself, but 11 shots will make you a cold-blooded killer. Where's the logic? If you're going to carry a concealed weapon, or any weapon at all for that matter, you might as well carry as much ammunition as you can comfortably deal with. I'd rather fire 20 rounds when I only needed 10, than fire 10 shots when I really needed 20. My concealed handgun setup is for 8+1 in the gun, plus two more 8-round mags ready to go. I may consider some higher-capacity mags if it's feasible.

06-19-2003, 03:54 PM	#17
FN_Project90 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA, USA Posts: 803	I was pokin' satire ole' buddy rofl my point is simply you never know whats going to happen I think that is funny if someone really wants to get high cap mags and start world war three they can still do it even after the ban, its just silly. __________________ Things n' Stuff

06-19-2003, 11:41 PM	#18
Sir Bug V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: North-Central, North Carolina Posts: 125	JohnK3, Here in North Carolina, the costs to get a CCW permit includes - $175.00 for the class and $165.00 for the Sheriff dept.'s application. What capped it all was when I went to pick up the permit, they charged $5.00 to laminate it. Oh, BTW, don't forget the cost of a good concealable holster, clip pouches and, perhaps, a weapon that conceals well. Your Friend in Dixie, Sir Bug