Whoops - The Firearms Forum

pinecone70 · 02-23-2009, 04:50 PM

This just came to my attention, but may have been on the television news (I don't watch). I like the way this incident was written up, which is why I wanted to share it, it's not anti-gun, surprisingly. I do like how the police department spokesman said "safety switch". LOL!

Freak shot wounds retired St. Paul cop at Minneapolis gun show
Second officer's holster apparently caught on his chair
By Nick Ferraro
nferraro@pioneerpress.com
Updated: 02/22/2009 10:49:30 PM CST

A retired St. Paul police officer was wounded Saturday when a pistol belonging to an off-duty Minneapolis police officer accidentally discharged at a gun show.

Both men were working security at the Minneapolis Gun Show at the Minneapolis Convention Center when the accident happened about 1:15 p.m., said Minneapolis police spokesman Sgt. Jesse Garcia.

The semi-automatic pistol went off when the off-duty officer's holster got caught on a chair when he was either leaning back or getting up, Garcia said.

One bullet hit the floor, and fragmented pieces struck the 61-year-old retired officer in a leg and hand, Garcia said. He was treated for a small wound and released Saturday.

A bullet fragment also grazed the Minneapolis police officer's pant leg. The officer, who has been on the force for more than 20 years, was not injured.

Garcia called the incident a "freak accident."

"You could probably sit in the chair 10,000 times and it will never happen again," he said.

The retired officer was working for a private security firm hired by the gun show, while the off-duty, uniformed Minneapolis officer was hired by the convention center, Garcia said. Both men were near a check-in table that was set up to make sure guns were inoperable, he said.

Their names were not available Sunday.

Minneapolis police will perform an internal investigation, which will include an examination of the gun and holster, Garcia said. But because the incident was an accident, the department will not consider any discipline, he added.

Minneapolis officers keep the safety switch off when carrying guns in a holster, Garcia said.

"When you need it, you need it," he said. "Every split second counts."

Most people inside the convention center were unaware of the incident, Garcia said.

"There was a cheerleader show and a dog show going on there, too, and it was business as usual," he said. "I'm sure 90 percent of those there didn't even know it happened."

cycloneman · 02-23-2009, 04:59 PM

This is strange. I would like to know what kind of gun and holster he was using, wish i had more details

pinecone70 · 02-23-2009, 05:22 PM

I was thinking that too, there is usually a mention of gun type at least, and holster details could have been brought up just for the heck of it. Reporters don't know much about guns and wouldn't think to ask, possibly.

It's one in a million.

Enfield · 02-24-2009, 01:26 AM

Interesting.....that brings up a question, as I have never used or carried a gun for protection, would you agree with leaving the safety off or do the people who carry generally have the safety on - does it take that long to flick from safe to fire

What are your thoughts, just interested

Cheers

Enfield

artabr · 02-24-2009, 02:12 AM

Somebody had their finger where it didn't belong. When was the last time you saw a cop with a holster that had an exposed trigger ?
Just saying.

Art

SaddleSarge · 02-24-2009, 02:55 AM

Quote:

"There was a cheerleader show and a dog show going on there, too, and it was business as usual," he said. "I'm sure 90 percent of those there didn't even know it happened."

But the media did!

Something is amiss but, there are some holsters still out there with exposed triggers. I still have my first one from the late 80's with an exposed trigger...don't carry it....but I have it.

Not sticking up for them at all, but some departments don't purchase anything for their officers. Some guys continue to get by with what they carried 20 years ago which is, coincidentally, how long the one had been on. However, they were not on duty.

It shouldn't have happened, but they are held to a higher standard because they are law enforcement.

As for leaving the safety off, when I carried a 4506 S&W for many years, I never carried it in the hammer block (safety on) position, nor trained that way. The safety is your finger, training, and decision making skills. Some guys carry with the decocker/hammer block engaged. I teach my crew to carry and train what is comfortable, prefer a decocked (if double/single action) but not hammer blocked, but if you don't put your finger on the trigger it will NOT fire unless a catastrophic mechanical failure occurs. Then and only then is it an "accidental discharge." All others are unintended discharges.

carver · 02-24-2009, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enfield

Interesting.....that brings up a question, as I have never used or carried a gun for protection, would you agree with leaving the safety off or do the people who carry generally have the safety on - does it take that long to flick from safe to fire

What are your thoughts, just interested

Cheers

Enfield

Enfield, there are four types of handguns that most of us carry. The revolver, that has no safety. Just pull the trigger for each shot. It can be fired single action, SA, cock the hammer, pull the triger, or double action, DA, pull the trigger for each shot. The single action type pistol, such as the old .45, which is usually carried cocked and locked, hammer cocked, round in the chamber, safety engaged. Drop the safety and fire, all shots are fired single action. This is called Condition 1. The double action/single action type pistols that allow one to carry with either the hammer down, safety off, one rd. chambered. Condition 2. The first shot is double action, cocking the hammer as the trigger is pulled, with all subsequent shots fired as single action, or it can be carried cocked and locked like the single action pistol. The fourth type of pistol is the dubble action only, like the Glock. Like the revolver, you just pull the trigger for each shot, cocking the hammer as you pull the trigger.

graehaven · 02-24-2009, 06:54 AM

Yeah, something is fishy about the incident. It shouldn't have happened with the proper holster, and proper carry protocol.

I carry DA only semi-auto pistols, with no safeties, and one round chambered, in holsters that cover the trigger.

Enfield · 02-25-2009, 12:43 AM

Thanks for the explaination

Cheers

Enfield

1shot1k · 02-25-2009, 12:53 AM

Accidental discharges used to be third most comon gunshot injury for officers, with Domestic/robbery respond 1st, traffic stop 2nd....dont know now...
but do know was big push on getting "double action triggers into the field...like the Sigma I just got (fixed the trigger)....office/lockerroom discharge rate would be surprising if all were reported instead of the fraction that are outside witnessed or injury caused........

02-23-2009, 04:50 PM	#1
pinecone70 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Minnesota Gal! Posts: 4,730	Whoops This just came to my attention, but may have been on the television news (I don't watch). I like the way this incident was written up, which is why I wanted to share it, it's not anti-gun, surprisingly. I do like how the police department spokesman said "safety switch". LOL! Freak shot wounds retired St. Paul cop at Minneapolis gun show Second officer's holster apparently caught on his chair By Nick Ferraro nferraro@pioneerpress.com Updated: 02/22/2009 10:49:30 PM CST A retired St. Paul police officer was wounded Saturday when a pistol belonging to an off-duty Minneapolis police officer accidentally discharged at a gun show. Both men were working security at the Minneapolis Gun Show at the Minneapolis Convention Center when the accident happened about 1:15 p.m., said Minneapolis police spokesman Sgt. Jesse Garcia. The semi-automatic pistol went off when the off-duty officer's holster got caught on a chair when he was either leaning back or getting up, Garcia said. One bullet hit the floor, and fragmented pieces struck the 61-year-old retired officer in a leg and hand, Garcia said. He was treated for a small wound and released Saturday. A bullet fragment also grazed the Minneapolis police officer's pant leg. The officer, who has been on the force for more than 20 years, was not injured. Garcia called the incident a "freak accident." "You could probably sit in the chair 10,000 times and it will never happen again," he said. The retired officer was working for a private security firm hired by the gun show, while the off-duty, uniformed Minneapolis officer was hired by the convention center, Garcia said. Both men were near a check-in table that was set up to make sure guns were inoperable, he said. Their names were not available Sunday. Minneapolis police will perform an internal investigation, which will include an examination of the gun and holster, Garcia said. But because the incident was an accident, the department will not consider any discipline, he added. Minneapolis officers keep the safety switch off when carrying guns in a holster, Garcia said. "When you need it, you need it," he said. "Every split second counts." Most people inside the convention center were unaware of the incident, Garcia said. "There was a cheerleader show and a dog show going on there, too, and it was business as usual," he said. "I'm sure 90 percent of those there didn't even know it happened." __________________ _____________________________________________ "Miss Scarlet, in the library...with a revolver...." -->

02-23-2009, 04:59 PM	#2
cycloneman Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Louisiana Posts: 7,401	Re: Whoops This is strange. I would like to know what kind of gun and holster he was using, wish i had more details __________________ Who are you going to serve today?

02-23-2009, 05:22 PM	#3
pinecone70 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Minnesota Gal! Posts: 4,730	Re: Whoops I was thinking that too, there is usually a mention of gun type at least, and holster details could have been brought up just for the heck of it. Reporters don't know much about guns and wouldn't think to ask, possibly. It's one in a million. __________________ _____________________________________________ "Miss Scarlet, in the library...with a revolver...."

02-24-2009, 01:26 AM	#4
Enfield V.I.P. Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: NZ Posts: 302	Re: Whoops Interesting.....that brings up a question, as I have never used or carried a gun for protection, would you agree with leaving the safety off or do the people who carry generally have the safety on - does it take that long to flick from safe to fire What are your thoughts, just interested Cheers Enfield

02-24-2009, 02:12 AM	#5
artabr Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: New Iberia, Louisiana Contributor Posts: 7,859	Re: Whoops Somebody had their finger where it didn't belong. When was the last time you saw a cop with a holster that had an exposed trigger ? Just saying. Art __________________ God and the soldier we like adore, In times of trouble, not before. When troubles ended and all things righted, God is forgotten and the soldier is slighted. Francis Quarles 1592 - 1644 __________________ When asked for my race, I answer CauCajun. Hope is not a plan, and not all change is good. The resistance is here; the resistance is now. RESIST! These hands are neither cold nor are they dead!! Last edited by artabr; 02-24-2009 at 02:14 AM..

02-24-2009, 06:54 AM	#8
graehaven Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 2,853	Re: Whoops Yeah, something is fishy about the incident. It shouldn't have happened with the proper holster, and proper carry protocol. I carry DA only semi-auto pistols, with no safeties, and one round chambered, in holsters that cover the trigger. __________________ The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." - Thomas Jefferson RESISTANCE IS FEUDAL... PREPARE TO SERVE.

02-25-2009, 12:43 AM	#9
Enfield V.I.P. Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: NZ Posts: 302	Re: Whoops Thanks for the explaination Cheers Enfield

02-25-2009, 12:53 AM	#10
1shot1k Former Guest Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Fort Worth, Texas Posts: 904	Re: Whoops Accidental discharges used to be third most comon gunshot injury for officers, with Domestic/robbery respond 1st, traffic stop 2nd....dont know now... but do know was big push on getting "double action triggers into the field...like the Sigma I just got (fixed the trigger)....office/lockerroom discharge rate would be surprising if all were reported instead of the fraction that are outside witnessed or injury caused........