Should I take the .22 or the .25? - The Firearms Forum

Pistolenschutze · 11-19-2005, 08:13 PM

I'd like your opinions guys and gals. About 10 years ago I bought a Beretta 21 in .22LR intended for very deep concealment use when I couldn't carry anything larger. The pistol was always somewhat unreliable, misfiring, on average, about once out of two mags worth of shooting. I tried obtaining new magazines for it, and this seemed to help some, but the problem still persisted to some degree. I didn't think too much about it because I know these little guns tend to be tempermental. Anyway, a month ago I finally sent the weapon back to Beretta to see if they could figure out what was causing the misfires and fix it (we all get a wild hair up the tusshie once in a while

). Turns out, the damn frame is slightly bent! No, it wasn't due to something I did to the gun, but seems to have been a factory defect, either that, or the dealer that sold it to me slipped me a mickey (knowing him, that is all too possible

). Since the gun was way out of warranty, Beretta wouldn't replace it one-for-one, even steven, but they did graciously offer to send me a new pistol at MUCH reduced cost in exchange. Here's the problem: Since they offer the .21 Bobcat in both .22 and .25, I'm trying to decide which would be the better choice of caliber for the replacement gun. Beretta is willing to go along with either since the model is the same. The .22 is the better "stopper" according to all the data I've read, but the .25 is a centerfire round designed for auto pistols, so I think it would likely be more functionally reliable. With the new ammo that's recently come out for the little .25 (for example, Speer with its Gold Dot offering), do you think I'd be better off with the little .25 than the .22LR?

jeep45238 · 11-19-2005, 08:20 PM

Out of about 13 years of firing .22LR's, I think I've only had 1 or maybe 2 rounds not fire.

I'd go with the .22LR personally. Little easier to get the ammo for it too, everybody sells the stuff.

JohnK3 · 11-19-2005, 10:15 PM

I'll second the jeepster. .22LR is the way to go.

mtnboomer · 11-19-2005, 10:23 PM

GO WITH THE .22!!!!! The .25 auto is a puny, underpowered cartridge with a bad habit of not penetrating past the dermis layer of the skin if the recipient is wearing a jacket or heavy clothing. Even the newer generation of bullets don't help much because of the lack of velocity. hile I would never condone the use of a .22 Rimfire as a self-defense weapon - it's better than a sharp stick!

BTW - you might find a box of the Aguila S.S.S. (Super Sniper Subsonic) 60-gr. .22 RF ammo and try some penetration tests at 7 yards to see what they will do. While they are supposed to be used in a rifle with a faster-than-normal twist, they may be accurate enough at close range to be very effective.

jeep45238 · 11-19-2005, 11:42 PM

The Aguila SSS round needs a 1:9 rifling twist to stabalize, but when fired from a rifle with that twist, it has penetrated up to 24 inches in ballistic gel.

Tears through phone books like nothin and is subsonic, but you need a tiiiiight barrel twist, and something longer than a pistol, to stabalize it and keep it from going end on end.

raveneap · 11-21-2005, 08:35 AM

Definately the .22. As already said, the .25 is nearly useless plus the cost of .25 ammo is ridculous.

Pistolenschutze · 11-21-2005, 09:24 AM

Thanks a bunch for the helpful responses, guys. I had already more or less reached the same conclusion you have, but it never hurts to get additional input. I'm going to tell Beretta that I'll take the .22LR version. When I get it, I think I will try it with Stingers or Yellow Jackets and see if one or the other is reliable in the gun.

jeep45238 · 11-21-2005, 10:52 AM

Make sure you read the manual about the ammo. My buddy's Tec-22 won't shoot anything hollowpointed or with that edge that most .22LR ammo has. Thank god he sold the faucker a couple days ago.

My ruger also states in the manual in big ol red letters not to shoot stingers through them. So do some readin before you start throwin it in there ;-)

Mousegunner · 11-30-2005, 07:58 PM

I agree on going for the .22. You may have reliability problems with a particular brand of ammo, but with .22 you have 20 different choices, and one is bound to work pretty well.

stash247 · 12-03-2005, 04:56 PM

If you carry a teeniny little gun, you're way ahead of those who don't; assuming you can consistantly HIT with it, which says practice.
The differential cost in ammo, alone, would seem to say, 22RF, but only if reliability is certain!
Not trying to Hijack this thread, but similar problems were/are rife with the (US built) Walther TPH, but only in the .22; the .25 had almost none.
After three pistols, finally, a reliable first shot, double action, pistol.
I like the idea of cheap ammo, since there's no excuse, then, for lack of practice, and that is what keeps one warm, and breathing, with a tiny gun like this!
P.S. Take a look at the Quik-Shok, pre fragmented bullet, ammunition, for defensive work; 9 out of 10 Trauma Surgeons hate it!

excop · 12-04-2005, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stash247

Not trying to Hijack this thread, but similar problems were/are rife with the (US built) Walther TPH, but only in the .22; the .25 had almost none.

That's something I haven't heard before. I have a TPH .22 I bought over 15 years ago. I don't know anyone else that has one and haven't heard about that. I looked in the manual and noticed it said that the gun was designed to use 37 grain hollowpoint or 40 grain solids, and that various types or bullet weights may not function acceptably. Mine has never given me a bit of a problem; it's worked like a swiss watch with anything I've fed it, including stingers. Maybe I just got one off of a good run from the US plant.

What is the problem with them, something in the feedramp or mag. design?

rangerruck · 01-13-2006, 10:39 PM

the only exception i can think of , is if naa makes one in .25 with their souped up round, that could be fun!

Gunny · 01-18-2006, 08:04 PM

I'm gonna have to differ with all the other posters. I would go with the 25. mainly for relability both in ingition and feed. I have several 22 and 25;s. I have never had a failure either to go bang or to feed with my 25s. I have both happen with my 22s. Once I went through a brick of winchester green box and at least one failure to fire in each 50 rd box. 22 HPs are, in most cases, fairly soft lead which does cause jamming. I use the FMJ in the 25 since the expansion rate is practically zero and I care more about penatration. I quit carrying the 25 when I realized that I could carry a ti 38 jframe with the same level of concealability in the front pants pocket.

stash247 · 01-18-2006, 09:02 PM

Gunny,MOST of the posters! My worries about Walther,are based on experience; should you happen upon a TPH, in .25 acp, I am 'open to buy', in a heartbeat! I'll say, here in public, the .22 is a better choice, with respect to ammo, all other things being equal, but, where reliability of function is concerned, the .25 has my vote, since alll other things are NOT equal!

Deputy Dawg · 01-18-2006, 11:24 PM

I have had A Baretta 21 in 22LR for about 15 years and i have not had any missfires with it.I too carried it for deep concealment.Once I tried an off brand 22 LR and it would not eject, but that was the only time. It has allways worked with Remington, Winchester, and Federal ammo without any problems.Go for the 22LR ammo is way cheaper=more time shooting.

rangerruck · 01-19-2006, 02:06 AM

i think that the b.c. and the s.d. of the 25 is so bad, that it has a terrible time of penetrating anything. the amzing amount of 22lr out there, you are bound to find a bullet type that you really like, and your gun likes , too!

Bill · 01-19-2006, 05:12 PM

Personally I think .22 and .25 auto pistols are obsolete in that you can buy a Kel-Tec .32 or .380 that easily fits in a front pocket almost unnoticed by the carrier. Both are very small and lightweight and pack a lot more horsepower. They ain't purty but very functional. P3AT Bill

Peanut Man · 02-03-2006, 05:20 PM

I like what Bill said - and I often carry my P3AT Kel-Tec .380, amazingly small. But since you're dealing with Beretta, I'd mention trying to talk them up to their "Tomcat" little .32 with the flip up barrel. My wife carries one because she has trouble racking the slide back on other autos. Haven't had any FTF's or other "jamming" problems yet, and Speer makes some nice 60 gr. GoldDots...

Peanut Man

wolfgang2000 · 02-03-2006, 07:39 PM

I agree with Bill. Get it back in any caliber, swap it for a Kel-tec.

11-19-2005, 08:13 PM	#1
Pistolenschutze Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 13,094	Should I take the .22 or the .25? I'd like your opinions guys and gals. About 10 years ago I bought a Beretta 21 in .22LR intended for very deep concealment use when I couldn't carry anything larger. The pistol was always somewhat unreliable, misfiring, on average, about once out of two mags worth of shooting. I tried obtaining new magazines for it, and this seemed to help some, but the problem still persisted to some degree. I didn't think too much about it because I know these little guns tend to be tempermental. Anyway, a month ago I finally sent the weapon back to Beretta to see if they could figure out what was causing the misfires and fix it (we all get a wild hair up the tusshie once in a while ). Turns out, the damn frame is slightly bent! No, it wasn't due to something I did to the gun, but seems to have been a factory defect, either that, or the dealer that sold it to me slipped me a mickey (knowing him, that is all too possible ). Since the gun was way out of warranty, Beretta wouldn't replace it one-for-one, even steven, but they did graciously offer to send me a new pistol at MUCH reduced cost in exchange. Here's the problem: Since they offer the .21 Bobcat in both .22 and .25, I'm trying to decide which would be the better choice of caliber for the replacement gun. Beretta is willing to go along with either since the model is the same. The .22 is the better "stopper" according to all the data I've read, but the .25 is a centerfire round designed for auto pistols, so I think it would likely be more functionally reliable. With the new ammo that's recently come out for the little .25 (for example, Speer with its Gold Dot offering), do you think I'd be better off with the little .25 than the .22LR? __________________ --Pistolenschutze (Pistol Shooter) --> Last edited by Pistolenschutze; 11-19-2005 at 08:15 PM..

11-19-2005, 08:20 PM	#2
jeep45238 Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 48	Re: Should I take the .22 or the .25? Out of about 13 years of firing .22LR's, I think I've only had 1 or maybe 2 rounds not fire. I'd go with the .22LR personally. Little easier to get the ammo for it too, everybody sells the stuff.

11-19-2005, 10:15 PM	#3
JohnK3 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 1,636	Re: Should I take the .22 or the .25? I'll second the jeepster. .22LR is the way to go.

11-19-2005, 10:23 PM	#4
mtnboomer Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Oklahoma by birth. America by the grace of God. Posts: 649	Re: Should I take the .22 or the .25? *GO WITH THE .22!!!!!* The .25 auto is a puny, underpowered cartridge with a bad habit of not penetrating past the dermis layer of the skin if the recipient is wearing a jacket or heavy clothing. Even the newer generation of bullets don't help much because of the lack of velocity. hile I would never condone the use of a .22 Rimfire as a self-defense weapon - it's better than a sharp stick! BTW - you might find a box of the Aguila S.S.S. (Super Sniper Subsonic) 60-gr. .22 RF ammo and try some penetration tests at 7 yards to see what they will do. While they are supposed to be used in a rifle with a faster-than-normal twist, they may be accurate enough at close range to be very effective. __________________ The cost of freedom, is eternal vigilance. The cost of bondage, is your life. - mtnboomer Support the Second Amendment - Join the NRA! > http://www.nra.org < Oklahoma State - #1 - GO POKES!

11-19-2005, 11:42 PM	#5
jeep45238 Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 48	Re: Should I take the .22 or the .25? The Aguila SSS round needs a 1:9 rifling twist to stabalize, but when fired from a rifle with that twist, it has penetrated up to 24 inches in ballistic gel. Tears through phone books like nothin and is subsonic, but you need a tiiiiight barrel twist, and something longer than a pistol, to stabalize it and keep it from going end on end.

11-21-2005, 08:35 AM	#6
raveneap V.I.P. Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Maine Posts: 216	Re: Should I take the .22 or the .25? Definately the .22. As already said, the .25 is nearly useless plus the cost of .25 ammo is ridculous. __________________ ... ed ... MAINE - The Way Life Should be ... NRA/C&R

11-21-2005, 09:24 AM	#7
Pistolenschutze Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 13,094	Re: Should I take the .22 or the .25? Thanks a bunch for the helpful responses, guys. I had already more or less reached the same conclusion you have, but it never hurts to get additional input. I'm going to tell Beretta that I'll take the .22LR version. When I get it, I think I will try it with Stingers or Yellow Jackets and see if one or the other is reliable in the gun. __________________ --Pistolenschutze (Pistol Shooter)

11-21-2005, 10:52 AM	#8
jeep45238 Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 48	Re: Should I take the .22 or the .25? Make sure you read the manual about the ammo. My buddy's Tec-22 won't shoot anything hollowpointed or with that edge that most .22LR ammo has. Thank god he sold the faucker a couple days ago. My ruger also states in the manual in big ol red letters not to shoot stingers through them. So do some readin before you start throwin it in there ;-)

11-30-2005, 07:58 PM	#9
Mousegunner Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Signal Mtn, TN Posts: 11	Re: Should I take the .22 or the .25? I agree on going for the .22. You may have reliability problems with a particular brand of ammo, but with .22 you have 20 different choices, and one is bound to work pretty well.

12-03-2005, 04:56 PM	#10
stash247 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Central Texas Posts: 2,815	Re: Should I take the .22 or the .25? If you carry a teeniny little gun, you're way ahead of those who don't; assuming you can consistantly HIT with it, which says practice. The differential cost in ammo, alone, would seem to say, 22RF, but only if reliability is certain! Not trying to Hijack this thread, but similar problems were/are rife with the (US built) Walther TPH, but only in the .22; the .25 had almost none. After three pistols, finally, a reliable first shot, double action, pistol. I like the idea of cheap ammo, since there's no excuse, then, for lack of practice, and that is what keeps one warm, and breathing, with a tiny gun like this! P.S. Take a look at the Quik-Shok, pre fragmented bullet, ammunition, for defensive work; 9 out of 10 Trauma Surgeons hate it! __________________ Don't start no s*t and there won't be none, Terry Last edited by stash247; 12-03-2005 at 04:59 PM..*

01-13-2006, 10:39 PM	#12
rangerruck V.I.P. Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 449	Re: Should I take the .22 or the .25? the only exception i can think of , is if naa makes one in .25 with their souped up round, that could be fun!

01-18-2006, 08:04 PM	#13
Gunny Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1	Re: Should I take the .22 or the .25? I'm gonna have to differ with all the other posters. I would go with the 25. mainly for relability both in ingition and feed. I have several 22 and 25;s. I have never had a failure either to go bang or to feed with my 25s. I have both happen with my 22s. Once I went through a brick of winchester green box and at least one failure to fire in each 50 rd box. 22 HPs are, in most cases, fairly soft lead which does cause jamming. I use the FMJ in the 25 since the expansion rate is practically zero and I care more about penatration. I quit carrying the 25 when I realized that I could carry a ti 38 jframe with the same level of concealability in the front pants pocket.

01-18-2006, 09:02 PM	#14
stash247 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Central Texas Posts: 2,815	Re: Should I take the .22 or the .25? Gunny,MOST of the posters! My worries about Walther,are based on experience; should you happen upon a TPH, in .25 acp, I am 'open to buy', in a heartbeat! I'll say, here in public, the .22 is a better choice, with respect to ammo, all other things being equal, but, where reliability of function is concerned, the .25 has my vote, since alll other things are NOT equal! __________________ Don't start no s**t and there won't be none, Terry

01-18-2006, 11:24 PM	#15
Deputy Dawg Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Central Texas Gulf Coast Posts: 2,229	Re: Should I take the .22 or the .25? I have had A Baretta 21 in 22LR for about 15 years and i have not had any missfires with it.I too carried it for deep concealment.Once I tried an off brand 22 LR and it would not eject, but that was the only time. It has allways worked with Remington, Winchester, and Federal ammo without any problems.Go for the 22LR ammo is way cheaper=more time shooting. __________________ LOCK and LOAD................................... GOD, GUNS,GUTS the three that keep us FREE!!!!

01-19-2006, 02:06 AM	#16
rangerruck V.I.P. Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 449	Re: Should I take the .22 or the .25? i think that the b.c. and the s.d. of the 25 is so bad, that it has a terrible time of penetrating anything. the amzing amount of 22lr out there, you are bound to find a bullet type that you really like, and your gun likes , too!

01-19-2006, 05:12 PM	#17
Bill V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 130	Re: Should I take the .22 or the .25? Personally I think .22 and .25 auto pistols are obsolete in that you can buy a Kel-Tec .32 or .380 that easily fits in a front pocket almost unnoticed by the carrier. Both are very small and lightweight and pack a lot more horsepower. They ain't purty but very functional. P3AT Bill

02-03-2006, 05:20 PM	#18
Peanut Man V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: earth Posts: 56	Re: Should I take the .22 or the .25? I like what Bill said - and I often carry my P3AT Kel-Tec .380, amazingly small. But since you're dealing with Beretta, I'd mention trying to talk them up to their "Tomcat" little .32 with the flip up barrel. My wife carries one because she has trouble racking the slide back on other autos. Haven't had any FTF's or other "jamming" problems yet, and Speer makes some nice 60 gr. GoldDots... Peanut Man

02-03-2006, 07:39 PM	#19
wolfgang2000 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Mountain Grove MO. Posts: 542	Re: Should I take the .22 or the .25? I agree with Bill. Get it back in any caliber, swap it for a Kel-tec. __________________ Guns are like Jello, there is always room for more!