Now I'm Worried - The Firearms Forum

Over The Hill · 03-13-2010, 03:03 PM

I'm worried because one of my reloads broke my Taurus 709. The details are:

Loading 9MM with 5.3gr Unique, CCI and Federal primers, mixed brass, Rem JHP, Ranier, and Precision Delta bullets. All bullets 115gr. OAL at 1.14. New to reloading, I thought this would be a safe load. What I didn't know then but understand now is that different bullets of the same weight can make a difference in pressure. But still I don't think I'm that far out with this load to make a significant difference among these three bullets at the length I'm loading. (May be some argument here)

Since the Taurus was new, I first fired 100 rounds of standard American Eagle target ammo - 115gr. I did this in two 50 round sessions followed by a through cleaning and re-oil. Then I loaded a clip of my Precision Delta reloads and within a few rounds the gun would misfire and fail to cycle. The misfires were soft strikes on the primer. I loaded these in my Beretta and they fired no problem. I tore the gun down and found the recoil spring broken.

This load (with all three bullets) has been working fine in my Beretta 92FS (5 inch barrel) and my XD Subcompact (3 inch barrel). And I can't feel any difference in the recoil.

So now I'm worried that my loads are too hot and its only a matter of time before I destroy or ruin my other guns, not to mention personal injury.

What do you all out there say? Am I loading too hot or did I experience a random or infant mortality failure in the Taurus? By the way, the Taurus is a three inch barrel. Need some help here. I don't want blow myself up or even worse, the guy standing next to me at the range.

Over The Hill · 03-13-2010, 03:05 PM

By the way, forgot to mention the Precision Delta are FMJ

mikld · 03-13-2010, 03:30 PM

I don't reload 9mm so FWIW. Your load is one full grain below Alliant's data and doesn't appear to be hot by my research. Maybe Taurus failure?

BobMcG · 03-13-2010, 03:48 PM

Could just be a bad spring.

A few years ago I had the outer spring (of 2 spring system) in a .40S&W Mini-FireStorm break while using factory loads. Granted, it was after a few hundred rounds had been fired but shows it can happen. (They replaced it for free with a single phone call.) A thousand rounds plus later, not a hitch.

Suicide*Ride · 03-13-2010, 09:38 PM

The 9mm headspaces on the case rim (like the 45acp) & if your brass is too short, you'll have issues like soft primer strikes. The next time you have a misfire, save it/them & measure the case length.

Re; the broken mainspring - IMHO, you had two seperate problems @ the same time.... IOW - 1 didn't have anything to do w/ the other. I would think the breakage is teething problems w/a new firearm.

Bummer....

SR

bntyhntr6975 · 03-13-2010, 11:17 PM

Go ahead and measure a bunch of 9mm cases. Most all will be short, even the factory loads. Sounds like theres a need for lubrication, or theres a weak spring. The Berreta apparently has a sufficient spring to strike the primer, the Taurus apparently does not. The loads are not too hot (according to my manuals), so that should be of little concern. Another thing you might check though is to make sure your primers are seated all the way. If not, that first strike may not cause detonation, but will set it in a little deeper. I have made that mistake before. Oh yea: the 9mm and .45 do not headspace off the case rim, they headspace off the case MOUTH. I'm sure thats whats was meant, but it needed stated anyway.

Suicide*Ride · 03-13-2010, 11:52 PM

Yeah, that's what I meant.....

TNX for the clarification bntyhntr6975.

(What can I say..... I'm a goober.

)

SR

312shooter · 03-14-2010, 12:53 AM

Overthehill,

If you know you took your time with your reloads and a litmus test of two other firearms proved fine then a firearm failure (especially Taurus sorry to say) is quite evident to me. Your only choice here maybe to randomly pull the bullets on a few, if you have some left, and double check your work. I reload 9mm and your recipe is near exact what I use. Good luck!

carver · 03-14-2010, 07:55 AM

After the above posts, my thoughts run along the lines of a simple spring failure. I don't reload 9mm, cause I don't own any guns in that caliber, but if your load is within the specs of the reloading manual, then ya gotta look to the vehicle that launches them.

RandyP · 03-14-2010, 08:16 AM

Different bullets of the same weight don't alter the pressure, different OAL and powder charges may be required from different bullet shapes and that can the pressure greatly.

As others have posted, you need to follow the load data for each bullet/weight/powder to insure safe reloads.

I agree that the spring beaking may simply be a coincidence?

Over The Hill · 03-15-2010, 08:56 AM

Thanks everybody. I appreciate the input. I went back and checked my loads and primer installations and everything is loaded to spec. And I rechecked load data that I could find and I should be well within a safe range on the powder load. The only thing is that I could not find load data on the specific bullets I a using except the Rainer people say to load as if it is a lead bullet.

Any way, with you all's help, I feel better about my loads and when I get the new Taurus spring I will try it again - very carefully!

THANKS!

DARIN · 03-17-2010, 01:19 AM

Oh yeah.... Not gonna drag this out but I caught an accident such as this before it happened a year or so ago. I bought a few thousand 165 grain lead head bullets from an online store. I am very perticular when it comes to my reloading...you know, measure, measure, measure. Well, I opened up a box of the bullets and started randomly weighing them on my digital scales and W O W!!! I had bullets weighing everywhere from 145 grains- 195 grains!!! I flipped completely out. Remember now, these were supposed to be 165 grain bullets. I contacted the company and informed them of this issue and they told me that my scales must have been broken...LOLOL Afterwards, I took a few pictures of the bullets on the scales, posted them on a different forum such as this one only to be pounded by people on my thread...unbelievable right? This happened! The people started bashing me stating that my scales must be broken...LOL Come to find out, the instigators were the very people that owned the company where I had bought the bullets!! I would guess to say that they called everyone possible to help them discredit my claims.

When loading any ammo, especially small pistol ammo, the powder loads need to be perfect if you are loading to max, well, thats my opinion anyway. So maybe this is what happened to you on this occasion. Just say I loaded a max powder load for a 165 grain bullet and in actuality, the bullet weighed 190+ grains...Just a thought...

JLA · 03-17-2010, 11:53 AM

Id say taurus failure. Get a new spring...

03-13-2010, 03:03 PM	#1
Over The Hill Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Virginia Posts: 25	Now I'm Worried I'm worried because one of my reloads broke my Taurus 709. The details are: Loading 9MM with 5.3gr Unique, CCI and Federal primers, mixed brass, Rem JHP, Ranier, and Precision Delta bullets. All bullets 115gr. OAL at 1.14. New to reloading, I thought this would be a safe load. What I didn't know then but understand now is that different bullets of the same weight can make a difference in pressure. But still I don't think I'm that far out with this load to make a significant difference among these three bullets at the length I'm loading. (May be some argument here) Since the Taurus was new, I first fired 100 rounds of standard American Eagle target ammo - 115gr. I did this in two 50 round sessions followed by a through cleaning and re-oil. Then I loaded a clip of my Precision Delta reloads and within a few rounds the gun would misfire and fail to cycle. The misfires were soft strikes on the primer. I loaded these in my Beretta and they fired no problem. I tore the gun down and found the recoil spring broken. This load (with all three bullets) has been working fine in my Beretta 92FS (5 inch barrel) and my XD Subcompact (3 inch barrel). And I can't feel any difference in the recoil. So now I'm worried that my loads are too hot and its only a matter of time before I destroy or ruin my other guns, not to mention personal injury. What do you all out there say? Am I loading too hot or did I experience a random or infant mortality failure in the Taurus? By the way, the Taurus is a three inch barrel. Need some help here. I don't want blow myself up or even worse, the guy standing next to me at the range. --> Last edited by Over The Hill; 03-13-2010 at 03:05 PM.. Reason: Additional data

03-13-2010, 03:05 PM	#2
Over The Hill Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Virginia Posts: 25	Re: Now I'm Worried By the way, forgot to mention the Precision Delta are FMJ

03-13-2010, 03:30 PM	#3
mikld Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oregon Posts: 573	Re: Now I'm Worried I don't reload 9mm so FWIW. Your load is one full grain below Alliant's data and doesn't appear to be hot by my research. Maybe Taurus failure? __________________ My Anchor is holding fast.

03-13-2010, 03:48 PM	#4
BobMcG Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Somewhere in the Twilight Zone. Contributor Posts: 1,119	Re: Now I'm Worried Could just be a bad spring. A few years ago I had the outer spring (of 2 spring system) in a .40S&W Mini-FireStorm break while using factory loads. Granted, it was after a few hundred rounds had been fired but shows it can happen. (They replaced it for free with a single phone call.) A thousand rounds plus later, not a hitch.

03-13-2010, 09:38 PM	#5
Suicide*Ride Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Golden, Colorado Posts: 1,340	Re: Now I'm Worried The 9mm headspaces on the case rim (like the 45acp) & if your brass is too short, you'll have issues like soft primer strikes. The next time you have a misfire, save it/them & measure the case length. Re; the broken mainspring - IMHO, you had two seperate problems @ the same time.... IOW - 1 didn't have anything to do w/ the other. I would think the breakage is teething problems w/a new firearm. Bummer.... SR __________________ "The price of FREEDOM can be seen here" ******(the sign outside every VA hospital)****** In an emergency, people don't rise to the occasion, but are reduced to their level of training. When something is trying to eat you, it is hard to get off a good shot! "If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Twain

03-13-2010, 11:17 PM	#6
bntyhntr6975 V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Wichita, Ks. Posts: 258	Re: Now I'm Worried Go ahead and measure a bunch of 9mm cases. Most all will be short, even the factory loads. Sounds like theres a need for lubrication, or theres a weak spring. The Berreta apparently has a sufficient spring to strike the primer, the Taurus apparently does not. The loads are not too hot (according to my manuals), so that should be of little concern. Another thing you might check though is to make sure your primers are seated all the way. If not, that first strike may not cause detonation, but will set it in a little deeper. I have made that mistake before. Oh yea: the 9mm and .45 do not headspace off the case rim, they headspace off the case MOUTH. I'm sure thats whats was meant, but it needed stated anyway. __________________ There is a fine line between paranoid and prepared. Last edited by bntyhntr6975; 03-13-2010 at 11:20 PM.. Reason: adding in a corection

03-13-2010, 11:52 PM	#7
Suicide*Ride Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Golden, Colorado Posts: 1,340	Re: Now I'm Worried Yeah, that's what I meant..... TNX for the clarification bntyhntr6975. (What can I say..... I'm a goober. ) SR __________________ "The price of FREEDOM can be seen here" ******(the sign outside every VA hospital)****** In an emergency, people don't rise to the occasion, but are reduced to their level of training. When something is trying to eat you, it is hard to get off a good shot! "If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Twain Last edited by SuicideRide; 03-13-2010 at 11:54 PM.. Reason: Ima Dumas*

03-14-2010, 12:53 AM	#8
312shooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Las Vegas NV Posts: 1,148	Re: Now I'm Worried Overthehill, If you know you took your time with your reloads and a litmus test of two other firearms proved fine then a firearm failure (especially Taurus sorry to say) is quite evident to me. Your only choice here maybe to randomly pull the bullets on a few, if you have some left, and double check your work. I reload 9mm and your recipe is near exact what I use. Good luck! __________________ "Democracy is based on citizenship- perhaps the greatest gift the United States has given to the world- Power is vested in the people themselves, and government flows from the people" James M Henslin

03-14-2010, 07:55 AM	#9
carver TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: DAV, Deep in the Pineywoods of East Texas, just west of Shreveport, LA Contributor Posts: 11,227	Re: Now I'm Worried After the above posts, my thoughts run along the lines of a simple spring failure. I don't reload 9mm, cause I don't own any guns in that caliber, but if your load is within the specs of the reloading manual, then ya gotta look to the vehicle that launches them. __________________ Y'all be safe now, ya hear! Lamentations Chapter 5: 1. Remember, O LORD, what is come upon us: consider, and behold our reproach. 2. Our inheritance is turned to strangers, our houses to aliens. 3. We are orphans and fatherless, our mothers [are] as widows. 5. Our necks [are] under persecution: we labour, [and] have no rest. 16. The crown is fallen [from] our head: woe unto us, that we have sinned! 21. Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.

03-14-2010, 08:16 AM	#10
RandyP V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 430	Re: Now I'm Worried Different bullets of the same weight don't alter the pressure, different OAL and powder charges may be required from different bullet shapes and that can the pressure greatly. As others have posted, you need to follow the load data for each bullet/weight/powder to insure safe reloads. I agree that the spring beaking may simply be a coincidence? __________________ Lee Anniversary and Lee Classic 4-Hole Turret, presently reloading .380, 7.62 Nagant (32-20), 9mm and 45ACP

03-15-2010, 08:56 AM	#11
Over The Hill Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Virginia Posts: 25	Re: Now I'm Worried Thanks everybody. I appreciate the input. I went back and checked my loads and primer installations and everything is loaded to spec. And I rechecked load data that I could find and I should be well within a safe range on the powder load. The only thing is that I could not find load data on the specific bullets I a using except the Rainer people say to load as if it is a lead bullet. Any way, with you all's help, I feel better about my loads and when I get the new Taurus spring I will try it again - very carefully! THANKS!

03-17-2010, 01:19 AM	#12
DARIN V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 54	Re: Now I'm Worried Oh yeah.... Not gonna drag this out but I caught an accident such as this before it happened a year or so ago. I bought a few thousand 165 grain lead head bullets from an online store. I am very perticular when it comes to my reloading...you know, measure, measure, measure. Well, I opened up a box of the bullets and started randomly weighing them on my digital scales and W O W!!! I had bullets weighing everywhere from 145 grains- 195 grains!!! I flipped completely out. Remember now, these were supposed to be 165 grain bullets. I contacted the company and informed them of this issue and they told me that my scales must have been broken...LOLOL Afterwards, I took a few pictures of the bullets on the scales, posted them on a different forum such as this one only to be pounded by people on my thread...unbelievable right? This happened! The people started bashing me stating that my scales must be broken...LOL Come to find out, the instigators were the very people that owned the company where I had bought the bullets!! I would guess to say that they called everyone possible to help them discredit my claims. When loading any ammo, especially small pistol ammo, the powder loads need to be perfect if you are loading to max, well, thats my opinion anyway. So maybe this is what happened to you on this occasion. Just say I loaded a max powder load for a 165 grain bullet and in actuality, the bullet weighed 190+ grains...Just a thought...

03-17-2010, 11:53 AM	#13
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,305	Re: Now I'm Worried Id say taurus failure. Get a new spring... __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!