Taking a life

[Larry G]

This is a post that I want to write, after my recent purchase of my shotguns. I am well aware of the psychological impact that the police officers and members of our military must deal with when they take a human life in the line of duty. Has anybody else (non-police or military) in this forum ever been forced to kill another human being in self defense?

[The Rifleman]

Thats a pretty personal question Larry.

Nobody has to take another mans life, unless he is a soldier or a policeman.

If you mean, did anyone choose to take another mans life, my answer is no.

Maim him - maybe;

kill him - only if he is going to kill me...

[Larry G]

Yes sir, it is a personal question, but it deals with an individual with a weapon killing another human being, be it called 'bad guy' or 'enemy'. Many years ago, defending my friends in a fire-fight, I am quite sure that an 'enemy' that I was shooting at, was killed. I did not actually see him die, but he did not fire back and we found a dead NVA in the position I shot at. It has been well over 30 years since that happened, but it is still quite clear in my memory. Before I decided to buy my guns this week, I asked myself again if I could pull the trigger again to protect my wife and family if I absolutely had to. The answer, in the worst case scenario, was 'yes' I could do so. Larry

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by Larry G

Yes sir, it is a personal question, but it deals with an individual with a weapon killing another human being, be it called 'bad guy' or 'enemy'. Many years ago, defending my friends in a fire-fight, I am quite sure that an 'enemy' that I was shooting at, was killed. I did not actually see him die, but he did not fire back and we found a dead NVA in the position I shot at. It has been well over 30 years since that happened, but it is still quite clear in my memory. Before I decided to buy my guns this week, I asked myself again if I could pull the trigger again to protect my wife and family if I absolutely had to. The answer, in the worst case scenario, was 'yes' I could do so. Larry

The question is indeed a personal one, Larry, and not an easy one to think about for a considerable number of us here on TFF. Many of us, like you, are combat veterans who seved in Vietnam and in other conflicts. I too was there, I did a soldier's job, and it has affected me every day of my own life since that time. Am I particularly proud of my actions? No. Am I ashamed of them? No again. I did what I had to do under the circumstances just as so many others did. I can live with that, just as I could live with it again if it were necessary to preserve my own life, or more importantly, the lives of my family. Unlike some who never again want to handle a weapon after a combat experience (I know a few of these), when I returned from Vietnam, I never did look upon weapons as the cause of the problem, but the means by which the problem was resolved. In essence, my rifle kept me, and those around me, alive. I still feel that way, which is why I carry a weapon daily and likely always will. For what it is worth, I think you acted very wisely by looking deep within yourself before you purchased you recent weapons. Only by doing that can a rational decision be made. If one does not believe, deep within himself, that he would shoot if necessary, he has no business keeping a self-defense weapon.

By the way, may I be the first to invite you to join us in the Vietnam forum here on TFF. We would love to have you enjoin with us.

[AL MOUNT]

Originally Posted by Larry G

Has anybody in this forum ever been forced to kill another human being ?

Define another ???........



(Ole Al speaks with fake Hatian accent )



" No problemo Mon " ....

[southernshooter]

I made up my mind a long time ago if it comes to it so be it, I have 0 compassion, If someone is going to do harm to me, Force will be met with force

[berto64]

Not for over 37 yrs. I was in the Army in Vietnam. It was kill or be killed in those daze. I'm still here, some of those people aren't.

PS. Nunyer danged bidness Larry.

[AL MOUNT]

Originally Posted by berto64

Not for over 37 yrs.

I had a funny T-shirt made at the Flea Market a while back..... ...well.... ....it was funny to me....


.............WARNING
I haven't killed anyone since 1968

Don't push your luck !



had a lot of fun with that one....

Originally Posted by berto64

PS. Nunyer danged bidness Larry.

Guess I'm enough of an ole sicko....it don't bother me...


I'm still gonna have them damn dreams....whether I talk about it or not...

[Jay]

It's always gonna boil down to "ya do what ya gotta do" ....... the real issue, is how fast can you decide to do it, when/if you have to do it.

[IShootBack]

AM...
I have a nearly identical picture of my oldest brother and a buddy next to his machine gun from Viet Nam. He never talked much about being there to me. He talked to our Mom quite a bit, but she would not compromise his confidentality.

As far as the overall question, I am with SS. I'll do what I gotta do, gun, knife, bow, golf club...But I pray I never need to.

[Light Coat]

If defending yourself is not an automatic reaction; you should have skipped on the vassectomy or the sex change operation. I went through the whole "Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul" self-analyssis thing. Wasn't long and I decided that my survival ranked far above the lives of the ignorant. Once you have passed that hump you are in good shape.

[rosierita]

Originally Posted by southernshooter

I made up my mind a long time ago if it comes to it so be it, I have 0 compassion, If someone is going to do harm to me, Force will be met with force

amp that by 10,000 when my kids are a part of the equation!

my dj (granddad) was a WWII POW & he said it was kill or be killed & having that attitude was how he slept at night (when he wasnt having nightmares). for those of you who have been in combat, i'm sure it's a heavy burden to bear, but i sincerely, from the deepest part of me, say THANK YOU bc had you not done that, i wouldnt be sitting here in the comfort of my home talking to you...

& bc of my dj & those of you who have served, i will never miss an opportunity to defend our soldiers, esp. the vietnam vets! had i been alive at that time & of age there is no tellin what i would have done to some of those protesters. i guess God had His reasons for delaying my arrival...

[hoser1]

Back in the 80's I would spend a fair amount of time scheming how to whack my ex'es.
Never got a clear shot though.
Does that count?

[Popgunner]

First,
Thanks to those here who had to do it in the line of duty & have lived with it .

I have decided me & mine will survive. I have heard that killing someone in self defense as a civilian will change ones life dramaticaly with all the legalities most likely bankrupting you even if it was justified.

Just for my own selfishness of wanting to be with my family & keeping all my stuff & not worrying the rest of my life I do pray I never have to.

[catfish83861]

Hey Al, Where did you get the pictures of those kids. I know it isn't you , you were never that young. catfish

[pawn]

Originally Posted by southernshooter

I made up my mind a long time ago if it comes to it so be it, I have 0 compassion, If someone is going to do harm to me, Force will be met with force

I couldn't agree more Southernshooter; I do not seek or wish for trouble, however, should trouble come my way I would defend myself and my family. I could take another's life in self-defense, I pray that I never have to.

[Pistolenschutze]

Ya know, guys and gals, the kind of comments I see here on this topic--it is indeed a difficult one to consider for any rational person--make me very proud to be among you. A majority of the folks on TFF, more likely the vast majority, carry or at least keep a firearm in their homes for self-defense. Yet it is worthy of note that, without exception, you all believe, as I do, that using a weapon to take another human life is the last thing anyone would wish to do. I think that says something important about gun owners in general--and certainly we have a very representative sampling of those here on TFF--concerning their basic mindset, along with their basic decency and common sense. Unlike the impression the media and the left-wingers like to portray, legitimate gun owners are rational, law-abiding people whose only desire is to go about their lawful occupations unmolested by those who would do them harm. Maybe I'm old-fashioned and not "with it" in this modern world, but that seems a pretty damn reasonable position to me.

[johnston3407]

Pistol, dittos to both of your posts. In any good firearms self defence training, thinking about what happens after you pull the triger is a big part of it. Popgunner has it right, even when justified it can become a big mess, besides having to live with the thought.

[WarSteed]

I was just discussing this topic with a friend of mine a couple nights ago. He is getting ready to be shipped off to SWAT school and he was telling me about the "recommended" readings for the school. Basically they were books on the psychology of killing.

He said the books stated that in a study of shootings, mostly of vets all the way back from WWI to today 80% (at wwI), when face to face with an enemy soldier will not shoot (even if the enemy has their weapon pointed at them) and vice versa. In WWII, that percentage went up, in Korea, even up further.

Then he talked about how in Vietnam the percentage reversed, something like 85% WOULD shoot without hesitation. The study looked at why and found out that through propaganda, by dehumanizing the enemy it made it easier to commit to the violent act.

He then told me that's why as a cop he (and his peers) always refer to people as f*ckheads, *ssholes and such because it's much easier to put an *sshole out of commission (not necessarily shoot them, but any violent action to keep control of a situation), than to put "Mr Smith" out of action.

He also talked about how during executions waay back when, the executioners would wear black hoods, the psychological barrier made it much easier to kill.

And now that i completely thread jacked you, no, i've never killed anyone. Been shot at once from long range, had a couple incidences where a gun was pointed at me, and i wasn't able to do anything.

[johnston3407]

Interesting point. I think it's a whole other matter with a civilain protecting his home and family, little or no training. LEO or Civil the aftermath can be very difficult.