more aid? - The Firearms Forum

topper · 01-13-2010, 10:38 AM

Obama is now going to go all out and aid the victims in the devastating earthquake in Haiti. Ok, fine, they are a poor country and need help, but why don't some other countries help? Why is it just america that does all the helping? There are some parts of America that has still not recovered physically and economically from Hurricane Katrina and Rita and we are now giving money to other countries. Our own economy is in a shambles and our debt is mounting and we are giving away more money? WTH is wrong with our leaders? Do they think we are made of money? I agree with sending clothing, blankets, food and SOME SMALL amount of money, but let's keep it reasonable and not try to rebuild the entire country. Other countries should help as should the UN and Red Cross and other aid origanizatons. America should not shoulder the entire burden.

rentalguy1 · 01-13-2010, 10:44 AM

Eff Haiti.

Terry_P · 01-13-2010, 10:47 AM

We are getting ready to send in troops. I presume they will try to restore services and provide food and water, etc. and the people in Hati are extremely poor and have lived under an oppressive govenment.

What does all the UN money go for other than in the pockets of the corrupt officials? To me it begs a UN response.

Please don't get me started on Katrina, remember the 10,000 dead that was reported?

topper · 01-13-2010, 11:17 AM

Terry P, Katrina and Rita were both devastating storms. Many people lost their lives and others were severely disrupted. Even now many people are still trying to recover. So, why does America run all over the world helping others when we have huge problems right at home to take care of. No way can a country "buy" friends with aid and money. IMO, that's what America is trying to do. Take care of home first, then help others if there is still enough left to do so.

Trouble 45-70 · 01-13-2010, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topper

Obama is now going to go all out and aid the victims in the devastating earthquake in Haiti. Ok, fine, they are a poor country and need help, but why don't some other countries help? Why is it just america that does all the helping? There are some parts of America that has still not recovered physically and economically from Hurricane Katrina and Rita and we are now giving money to other countries. Our own economy is in a shambles and our debt is mounting and we are giving away more money? WTH is wrong with our leaders? Do they think we are made of money? I agree with sending clothing, blankets, food and SOME SMALL amount of money, but let's keep it reasonable and not try to rebuild the entire country. Other countries should help as should the UN and Red Cross and other aid origanizatons. America should not shoulder the entire burden.

On Katrina. those who did for themselves have cleared the debris. repaired the damage, replaced their vehicles and gone on with their lives as have those in the subsequent Hurricanes.

Meanwhile those waiting on the govt. to help are still sitting around with their lips poked out. Kind of like crapping in one hand and wishing in the other then looking to see what you have the most of. Hows that HOPE working out for you?

Terry_P · 01-13-2010, 11:31 AM

Parts of Mississippi were also destroyed by Katrina and the people there picked themselves up by the bootstraps and rebuilt. The "other" people from Katrina waited for someone to take care of them and I agree many still have their hands out but refuse to lift a finger to help themselves. Remember the debit cards? Turned out to be a huge boondoggle, big surprise. How many have been prosecuted for that? This year will be the 5th anniversay of Katrina how much longer do these people need to get their act together?

In NH we had severe spring floods that cost a couple their lives. Guess what most people got out of the way. They have rebuilt and moved on with their lives. You know what they got out of it, loans to help them rebuild.

petesusn · 01-13-2010, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topper

...America should not shoulder the entire burden.

America has always shouldered the burden no matter where in the world. Yea, we're Aholes until we're needed. After the crisis has been dealt with we're Aholes again. The way of the world. How do we make them stop? I just don't know.

bntyhntr6975 · 01-13-2010, 01:26 PM

We must do all that we can, at all times, to show the world how "humanitarian" we are. We can and will solve all their problems. We just sweep our own under the rug. I'm all for helping others, but lets face it: we have alot of problems right here that we need to be focusing on. How many of our own are doing without food, home, education, etc, etc? Our officials would rather give that to some other country that really doesn't care about us, than do anything about it. Eff them. We need to start taking care of us, and fast.

bcj1755 · 01-13-2010, 06:22 PM

It took Barry what, 13 days to even mention the Christmas Day pantybomber? But he's on the TV in less than 24 hours promising aid to Haiti? And he's telling people to go the White House website to find out how to donate money. My question is why can't people just donate money to the charity of their choice? I'm guessing that a certain portion of those funds donated through the WH website will "disappear." After all, Barry still has to find a way to pay for AdolfCare

Bobitis · 01-13-2010, 06:28 PM

We'd have a lot more to give if we were OUT of the UN!

Then again, the fed would just find another hole to throw it in.

Term limits, and a salary/perk threshold equal to you constituants.
I could get behind that.

The US is like the world Law Enforcement Agency.

We're GREAT when you need us. Any other time, we're Jack Booted Thugs.

If the US was sincere in their efforts, we'd tell the UN to get screwed, and supply FREE DDT to the world.

Natural disasters pale in comparison to the lives lost to malaria.

I should be the POTUS.

TheGunClinger · 01-13-2010, 07:26 PM

I just wrote and deleted a long winded tirade about how many times we, the good ole USA comes to the rescue of those in peril, those in distress, those in catrastrophic events etc. blah blah. I deleted it because what the hell, we will be ostrasized by the worlds press, we will soon be fired upon by the very people we are trying to help.
I wonder if help will be offered by all the MUSLAMY countries... Yeah right!... So anyways, I just deleted it and said.. what the hedoublell with it.

Blackhawk Dave · 01-13-2010, 07:28 PM

Brazil has sent aid, but that's the only one I know of.

Haiti is a failure as a country. The only way to fix it is to destroy it as a functioning country and take it over as a protectorate, which is politically unfeasible.

If you look at the Detroit area, it looks like Berlin after WWII in some areas. The only difference is that people can move away and start over. They're stuck in Haiti since no one wants them.

marcodelat · 01-13-2010, 07:40 PM

Well... France for one never forgot the small bit of help we gave their army in defeating Germany.

... and by the way, wasn't Haiti a French colony at one time - nothing like helping "your own"!

rentalguy1 · 01-13-2010, 07:55 PM

Haiti is the armpit of the Western Hemisphere. I feel bad for her people, but if they had valued their freedoms, they could have had a stronger government, and could have had better resources to have dealt with this natural disaster. As it stands, the countryside is now in the same shape as their government...and we're supposed to save them? With what?? Fire up the presses! We're gonna need more money!

CampingJosh · 01-13-2010, 08:06 PM

Are we all this selfish?

Our money goes to fighting two wars, keeping auto manufacturers from going out of business even though they have a bad business model, keeping thousands of illegal aliens in prison, crashing rockets into the moon, and countless other wastes. If there is any one good use of our money, surely caring for people has to be it.

These people don't have houses in the first place. Haiti is the poorest nation in the New World (which, by the way, we have maintained as our domain since Monroe's presidency). They don't have clean water. They don't even have places to put the dead bodies.

I, for one, am perfectly happy spending a tenth of a percent of our budget to care for millions of hurting people, even if they are not American citizens. I hope I'm not the only one here who thinks this way.

pinecone70 · 01-13-2010, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CampingJosh

Are we all this selfish?

Our money goes to fighting two wars, keeping auto manufacturers from going out of business even though they have a bad business model, keeping thousands of illegal aliens in prison, crashing rockets into the moon, and countless other wastes. If there is any one good use of our money, surely caring for people has to be it.

These people don't have houses in the first place. Haiti is the poorest nation in the New World (which, by the way, we have maintained as our domain since Monroe's presidency). They don't have clean water. They don't even have places to put the dead bodies.

I, for one, am perfectly happy spending a tenth of a percent of our budget to care for millions of hurting people, even if they are not American citizens. I hope I'm not the only one here who thinks this way.

Thanks Josh.

rentalguy1 · 01-13-2010, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CampingJosh

Are we all this selfish?

Our money goes to fighting two wars, keeping auto manufacturers from going out of business even though they have a bad business model, keeping thousands of illegal aliens in prison, crashing rockets into the moon, and countless other wastes. If there is any one good use of our money, surely caring for people has to be it.

These people don't have houses in the first place. Haiti is the poorest nation in the New World (which, by the way, we have maintained as our domain since Monroe's presidency). They don't have clean water. They don't even have places to put the dead bodies.

I, for one, am perfectly happy spending a tenth of a percent of our budget to care for millions of hurting people, even if they are not American citizens. I hope I'm not the only one here who thinks this way.

I have an idea. Maybe you could send a tenth of your annual salary down there. Maybe you could get some of your friends to participate as well. But please don't take money from others, forcibly, and send to a place where the people don't even care about themselves. Do you have any idea why they are the poorest nation in the Western Hemisphere? Do you have any idea how many times the US has sent military intervention to that country in the last 150 years in attempts to establish peace and order?

I surely don't need to remind you that we are financially broke as a nation. Every dollar that we spend today is either borrowed or printed. So, in reality, we are sending money that doesn't even belong to us. If you had no money in the bank, and a pile of bills from overspending, would you charge a donation to the Salvation Army on your Mastercard?

Lastly, there is no provision in the Constitution for sending aid to any country. Why don't we do a little more at home before we go around the world being Mr. Dogooder again. That is part of what got us here to begin with.

Insulation Tim · 01-13-2010, 08:45 PM

Can somebody point out any "black" country that thrives? It doesn't exist. They are all violence prone dirt poor cesspools of mankind. A new warloard every month taking all of our "gifts" and pocketing them amongst ourselves.

There biggest industry seem to be "piracy".

Yet. I see all of the limp wrist liberals of Hollywood are lining up for the Aid Concerts. Good Photo Ops.

Bobitis · 01-13-2010, 08:56 PM

Heartless bunch, aren't we?

CampingJosh · 01-13-2010, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rentalguy1

I have an idea. Maybe you could send a tenth of your annual salary down there. Maybe you could get some of your friends to participate as well. But please don't take money from others, forcibly, and send to a place where the people don't even care about themselves. Do you have any idea why they are the poorest nation in the Western Hemisphere? Do you have any idea how many times the US has sent military intervention to that country in the last 150 years in attempts to establish peace and order?

I surely don't need to remind you that we are financially broke as a nation. Every dollar that we spend today is either borrowed or printed. So, in reality, we are sending money that doesn't even belong to us. If you had no money in the bank, and a pile of bills from overspending, would you charge a donation to the Salvation Army on your Mastercard?

Lastly, there is no provision in the Constitution for sending aid to any country. Why don't we do a little more at home before we go around the world being Mr. Dogooder again. That is part of what got us here to begin with.

I do, as a matter of fact, know why Haiti is the poorest nation in the hemisphere. The island was stripped of resources by European powers. There is nothing of value left there. Extreme scarcity has led to political instability, which in turn has led to economic failure. Yes, the people have failed, too. But I have a really hard time saying, "Too bad your government is unstable; now you can't have drinking water."

I have personal friends who frequently travel to Haiti. Two of my brothers have been planning a trip there for months and will be going in June. I am closely connected to an ongoing Christian camp project there. For me, this isn't just a one time connection. The earthquake made everything worse, but it's not the cause of the problems.

But because you seem keen to argue on this topic...
Surely you see that you are speaking in circles. "I surely don't need to remind you that we are financially broke as a nation." "Why don't we do a little more at home before we go around the world being Mr. Dogooder again." Aren't those two thoughts inherently at odds? If we don't have the money, we don't have it to spend here either.

Marlin T · 01-13-2010, 09:12 PM

I'm just sayin

ampaterry · 01-14-2010, 07:33 AM

Not to sound hard or anything -
But if they had nothing to start with, what material losses have they had to require $$ for?

I was in Fairbanks in the great flood of 1967.
We lost everything.

We dug ourselves out, accepting NOTHING from the Red Cross or the Fed.
If we had sat down and held our hands out, someone would have dropped $$ into them -

Makes me MAD - -

rentalguy1 · 01-14-2010, 08:02 AM

I see Josh...If your family, friends, or little God group has something to do with it, then it is ok to take money from others and give it to a people who will rebuild their mud huts and still poop in the well. Ridiculous.

Terry_P · 01-14-2010, 08:20 AM

The country of Hati shares an Island (Hispanola) with the Dominican Republic. The DR is a prosperous little country with a thriving tourist trade and sugar industry. The reason is a democratic government whereas Hati has a Chicago style government. In other words in Hati the politicans and friends live large and the rest of the country is state of poverty.

Artemus · 01-14-2010, 09:05 AM

No matter what the US does to help,we will be accused of not doing enough.

01-13-2010, 10:38 AM	#1
topper Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: deep in the woods Posts: 748	more aid? Obama is now going to go all out and aid the victims in the devastating earthquake in Haiti. Ok, fine, they are a poor country and need help, but why don't some other countries help? Why is it just america that does all the helping? There are some parts of America that has still not recovered physically and economically from Hurricane Katrina and Rita and we are now giving money to other countries. Our own economy is in a shambles and our debt is mounting and we are giving away more money? WTH is wrong with our leaders? Do they think we are made of money? I agree with sending clothing, blankets, food and SOME SMALL amount of money, but let's keep it reasonable and not try to rebuild the entire country. Other countries should help as should the UN and Red Cross and other aid origanizatons. America should not shoulder the entire burden. -->

01-13-2010, 10:44 AM	#2
rentalguy1 Former Guest Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: The mountains of NE TN. Posts: 884	Re: more aid? Eff Haiti.

01-13-2010, 10:47 AM	#3
Terry_P Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: NH Posts: 2,513	Re: more aid? We are getting ready to send in troops. I presume they will try to restore services and provide food and water, etc. and the people in Hati are extremely poor and have lived under an oppressive govenment. What does all the UN money go for other than in the pockets of the corrupt officials? To me it begs a UN response. Please don't get me started on Katrina, remember the 10,000 dead that was reported? __________________ NRA and NAHC Life "Both oligarch and tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms." -Aristotle Last edited by Terry_P; 01-13-2010 at 10:49 AM..

01-13-2010, 11:17 AM	#4
topper Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: deep in the woods Posts: 748	Re: more aid? Terry P, Katrina and Rita were both devastating storms. Many people lost their lives and others were severely disrupted. Even now many people are still trying to recover. So, why does America run all over the world helping others when we have huge problems right at home to take care of. No way can a country "buy" friends with aid and money. IMO, that's what America is trying to do. Take care of home first, then help others if there is still enough left to do so.

01-13-2010, 11:31 AM	#6
Terry_P Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: NH Posts: 2,513	Re: more aid? Parts of Mississippi were also destroyed by Katrina and the people there picked themselves up by the bootstraps and rebuilt. The "other" people from Katrina waited for someone to take care of them and I agree many still have their hands out but refuse to lift a finger to help themselves. Remember the debit cards? Turned out to be a huge boondoggle, big surprise. How many have been prosecuted for that? This year will be the 5th anniversay of Katrina how much longer do these people need to get their act together? In NH we had severe spring floods that cost a couple their lives. Guess what most people got out of the way. They have rebuilt and moved on with their lives. You know what they got out of it, loans to help them rebuild. __________________ NRA and NAHC Life "Both oligarch and tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms." -Aristotle

01-13-2010, 01:26 PM	#8
bntyhntr6975 V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Wichita, Ks. Posts: 270	Re: more aid? We must do all that we can, at all times, to show the world how "humanitarian" we are. We can and will solve all their problems. We just sweep our own under the rug. I'm all for helping others, but lets face it: we have alot of problems right here that we need to be focusing on. How many of our own are doing without food, home, education, etc, etc? Our officials would rather give that to some other country that really doesn't care about us, than do anything about it. Eff them. We need to start taking care of us, and fast. __________________ There is a fine line between paranoid and prepared.

01-13-2010, 06:22 PM	#9
bcj1755 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: A wretched hive of scum and villiany Posts: 4,357	Re: more aid? It took Barry what, 13 days to even mention the Christmas Day pantybomber? But he's on the TV in less than 24 hours promising aid to Haiti? And he's telling people to go the White House website to find out how to donate money. My question is why can't people just donate money to the charity of their choice? I'm guessing that a certain portion of those funds donated through the WH website will "disappear." After all, Barry still has to find a way to pay for AdolfCare __________________ History is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace, and revolution continue on forever. Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges - Cicero If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. - Samuel Adams

01-13-2010, 06:28 PM	#10
Bobitis Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 6,612	Re: more aid? We'd have a lot more to give if we were OUT of the UN! Then again, the fed would just find another hole to throw it in. Term limits, and a salary/perk threshold equal to you constituants. I could get behind that. The US is like the world Law Enforcement Agency. We're GREAT when you need us. Any other time, we're Jack Booted Thugs. If the US was sincere in their efforts, we'd tell the UN to get screwed, and supply FREE DDT to the world. Natural disasters pale in comparison to the lives lost to malaria. I should be the POTUS. __________________ ^.^ A point in every direction is the same as having no point at all

01-13-2010, 07:26 PM	#11
TheGunClinger Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: SW Florida Contributor Posts: 2,383	Re: more aid? I just wrote and deleted a long winded tirade about how many times we, the good ole USA comes to the rescue of those in peril, those in distress, those in catrastrophic events etc. blah blah. I deleted it because what the hell, we will be ostrasized by the worlds press, we will soon be fired upon by the very people we are trying to help. I wonder if help will be offered by all the MUSLAMY countries... Yeah right!... So anyways, I just deleted it and said.. what the hedoublell with it. __________________ New England Patriots Rule Next year.

01-13-2010, 07:28 PM	#12
Blackhawk Dave Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Denton, TX Posts: 593	Re: more aid? Brazil has sent aid, but that's the only one I know of. Haiti is a failure as a country. The only way to fix it is to destroy it as a functioning country and take it over as a protectorate, which is politically unfeasible. If you look at the Detroit area, it looks like Berlin after WWII in some areas. The only difference is that people can move away and start over. They're stuck in Haiti since no one wants them.

01-13-2010, 07:40 PM	#13
marcodelat V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 128	Re: more aid? Well... France for one never forgot the small bit of help we gave their army in defeating Germany. ... and by the way, wasn't Haiti a French colony at one time - nothing like helping "your own"!

01-13-2010, 07:55 PM	#14
rentalguy1 Former Guest Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: The mountains of NE TN. Posts: 884	Re: more aid? Haiti is the armpit of the Western Hemisphere. I feel bad for her people, but if they had valued their freedoms, they could have had a stronger government, and could have had better resources to have dealt with this natural disaster. As it stands, the countryside is now in the same shape as their government...and we're supposed to save them? With what?? Fire up the presses! We're gonna need more money!

01-13-2010, 08:06 PM	#15
CampingJosh TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 4,788	Re: more aid? Are we all this selfish? Our money goes to fighting two wars, keeping auto manufacturers from going out of business even though they have a bad business model, keeping thousands of illegal aliens in prison, crashing rockets into the moon, and countless other wastes. If there is any one good use of our money, surely caring for people has to be it. These people don't have houses in the first place. Haiti is the poorest nation in the New World (which, by the way, we have maintained as our domain since Monroe's presidency). They don't have clean water. They don't even have places to put the dead bodies. I, for one, am perfectly happy spending a tenth of a percent of our budget to care for millions of hurting people, even if they are not American citizens. I hope I'm not the only one here who thinks this way. __________________ Nothing posted on TheFirearmsForum.com constitutes legal, accounting, gunsmithing, or other professional advice. Readers are encouraged to consult with qualified professionals for real advice. Your life is lived at your own risk. Don't blame me for the dumb things you do.

01-13-2010, 08:45 PM	#18
Insulation Tim Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Ohio Contributor Posts: 2,300	Re: more aid? Can somebody point out any "black" country that thrives? It doesn't exist. They are all violence prone dirt poor cesspools of mankind. A new warloard every month taking all of our "gifts" and pocketing them amongst ourselves. There biggest industry seem to be "piracy". Yet. I see all of the limp wrist liberals of Hollywood are lining up for the Aid Concerts. Good Photo Ops. __________________ Tim *"Remember the Ark was built by amateurs....Professionals built the Titanic"*

01-13-2010, 08:56 PM	#19
Bobitis Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 6,612	Re: more aid? Heartless bunch, aren't we? __________________ ^.^ A point in every direction is the same as having no point at all Last edited by ampaterry; 01-14-2010 at 07:37 AM.. Reason: LITTLE clean up

01-13-2010, 09:12 PM	#21
Marlin T Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New Mexico Posts: 7,857	Re: more aid? I'm just sayin Attached Images __________________ "But the simple truth--born of experience--is that tyranny thrives best where government need not fear the wrath of an armed people." Judge Alex Kozinski - United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government. - Thomas Paine Did you read todays GOOD shooting? >>>KEEPANDBEARARMS.COM <<<

01-14-2010, 07:33 AM	#22
ampaterry TFF Admin Staff Chaplain Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: West Tennessee Contributor Posts: 6,291	Re: more aid? Not to sound hard or anything - But if they had nothing to start with, what material losses have they had to require $$ for? I was in Fairbanks in the great flood of 1967. We lost everything. We dug ourselves out, accepting NOTHING from the Red Cross or the Fed. If we had sat down and held our hands out, someone would have dropped $$ into them - Makes me MAD - - __________________ A woman who demands further gun control legislation is like a chicken who roots for Colonel Sanders. Larry Elder

01-14-2010, 08:02 AM	#23
rentalguy1 Former Guest Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: The mountains of NE TN. Posts: 884	Re: more aid? I see Josh...If your family, friends, or little God group has something to do with it, then it is ok to take money from others and give it to a people who will rebuild their mud huts and still poop in the well. Ridiculous. Last edited by rentalguy1; 01-14-2010 at 08:22 AM..

01-14-2010, 08:20 AM	#24
Terry_P Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: NH Posts: 2,513	Re: more aid? The country of Hati shares an Island (Hispanola) with the Dominican Republic. The DR is a prosperous little country with a thriving tourist trade and sugar industry. The reason is a democratic government whereas Hati has a Chicago style government. In other words in Hati the politicans and friends live large and the rest of the country is state of poverty. __________________ NRA and NAHC Life "Both oligarch and tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms." -Aristotle

01-14-2010, 09:05 AM	#25
Artemus V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Mass. Posts: 358	Re: more aid? No matter what the US does to help,we will be accused of not doing enough.