Prove to me that I'm not alread dead, in hell, and reliving my life over and over.... - The Firearms Forum

glocknut · 03-19-2004, 01:30 AM

I've hit many preachers with this question over the last couple of years......and not one of them had an answer to the question...heck some did'nt even try...the local Mormons tried the hardest but still could'nt refute my theory...

I read in the bible, and I can't remember the Chapter and verse, i sure wish i could....but it stated that "what is to come, already is..."

I know its in there....I read it!!

The bible also spoke of how a person would be before the judgement throne and would remember their life with crystal clarity.....which does not prove that once a person was in hell that he would have as clear of a mind as they did before the throne....

Like the title of this thread states, can anyone prove that I'm not already dead, in hell, and reliving my life over and over as a punishment?

Just because the words of the Bible can still be read in book form, does not mean that the promise of salvation is still available.....

Anyone want to take a crack at this one?

mike

Greg · 03-19-2004, 02:10 AM

When you dream, and think you are a butterfly, and when you are awake and you think you are a man, are you a butterfly dreaming that you are a man-or whatever?

A tuffy, but this one is up to you Glocknut, and your own personal journey. Do you have the capacity to love, and to receive love? Do you love yourself? Do you have fundamental truths and values that you believe in, and live by?

Wherever you are actually at now (or think you are), you make your own heaven or hell until you reach enlightenment. Sound crazy?

glocknut · 03-19-2004, 02:27 AM

If I am in Hell...i hope i never reach......."enlightenment"

It bothers me that my theory cannot be disproved...

mike

Greg · 03-19-2004, 03:13 AM

O.K. How about this...

Since you are mentioning Heaven and Hell, and the Bible, I will work with the assumption that you are Christian. If you are, then you believe that God made you in his image. This being true, then a part of God is in you. If a part of God is in you, then a promise was made to you that salvation exists for you if you truly accept and believe that Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior. If you have, then you would not be in hell.

If my assumption is incorrect(about being Christian), then your proof you are asking for will not be proven within the realm of science within our world of reality. It is spiritual. It has to reside within faith. You have to look for the answer in the right place. If you are not a spiritual person, then the question you ask is not any different than asking to prove that God exists. You probably aren't going to find that one on the Forum, let alone anywhere. I guess in this case, unless you get a personal visit, you can keep searching. However, if you are an athiast or an agnostic, you wouldn't be worried about being in hell, since it wouldn't exist, and no judgement would have been made.

Remington597 · 03-19-2004, 05:27 AM

Jesus Christ is our lord and saviour. Self sacrifice is the ultimate love and therefore the ultimate truth. Hell is a state of existence which is separation from God and is a conscious choice due to the fact that we are given the precious gift of free will because God loves us and decided not to make us into puppets.
The next time you are in any National Park, look at the majesty of the nature around you and appreciate His work. Look into the eyes of an infant and see his glory. Look at a nice Glock and see the mechanical wisdom he has given us. Appreciate His majesty in full, better yet, look at a human cell under an atomic microscope and tell me its a results of random selection and not a complex intelligent design. Better yet, think of how you felt when you first fell in love and tell me its a random firing of chemical reactions. God is real and so it hell. Hell is separation from God, I suggest togetherness with God is better than separation from him.
On a more practical side, this will help you avoid an ulcer.

SouthernMoss · 03-19-2004, 05:57 AM

Quote:

I read in the bible, and I can't remember the Chapter and verse, i sure wish i could....but it stated that "what is to come, already is..."

Do you remember the context of this quote? I've done a word search in several of the more common translations of the Bible and can't find it.

tuckerd1 · 03-19-2004, 06:34 AM

Quote:

"what is to come, already is..."

God knows all. He knows what is going to happen to us as the human race. Read Daniel and Revelations. God showed the future to Daniel and John and they wrote it down. Satan, The anti-Christ, and the high priest of Satan's congregation are all described there and what they will do..

God knows how it will end.

JohnnyRobotic · 03-19-2004, 08:37 AM

I'm no expert but it seems to me that hell would be living forever, being immortal . . .but isn't that what heaven is, i think it'd be a pretty boring place after the first few hundred years . . .no beer up there i heard

but seriously what is there to do up there besides just hang out for ETERNITY ! could i make visits back to earth, other plants, galaxies, dimensions?

rosierita · 03-19-2004, 08:54 AM

interesting.......

whatever you believe, it takes faith!

i have read the bible a good bit & i dont recall reading those words, the future is fortold in the bible tho. ya know, i believe that God speaks to us thru His word, so maybe that was more your interpretation of what you were reading??

i dunno! i do believe that whether we are in heaven or in hell, we'll remember our earthly life. in heaven, we'll remember those things done on earth, but we'll have God's perspective on it, remember there will be no sorrow or tears in heaven.

in hell, i believe those there will have their total memory, but in addition to that, they'll see their wickedness & all of their opportunities to accept Christ.
the bible says that we're all appointed a time to die & face a judgement. not all of the judgements will be the same! christians will be in one judgement, those that are not saved will be in another. it is my belief that christians will be judged on missed opportunities, chances they had to witness & didnt. (bc their salvation has already been determined) those not saved will be judged for their sins & cast into the lake of fire.
after death of the natural body, those that are saved will have an incorruptable body. so, if you're getting sick & you're a christian, you arent in heaven yet!

if you arent a christian & you're in the presence of christians, you arent in hell yet.

if you are a christian & you're having doubts ~ get back into that bible!! & of course surround yourself w/ like believers.

i hope this makes sense, if not, sorry for rambling!

ibtrukn · 03-19-2004, 09:33 AM

alla yooze R missin da pernt. ast slick willie........he nose wot is is.........

JohnnyRobotic · 03-19-2004, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rosierita
in heaven, we'll remember those things done on earth, but we'll have God's perspective on it, remember there will be no sorrow or tears in heaven.

But aren't our experiences what make us who we are? and with out sadness how can one really know what happiness is? I believe that things do happen for a reason and after dealing with tragedy it makes you a stronger person for it, so that is not something i would want to lose but that is all i really have to say on the subject, just religion and faith are not to be argued just left to the individual person, just wanted to give my opinion

rosierita · 03-19-2004, 12:08 PM

jr ~ what i was meaning was bc we'll have God's perspective on things, there wont be any sorry.

in other words, we'll be able to see the total picture & understand things better & we'll also know that God brought us out of those things.

Boomatic · 03-19-2004, 12:56 PM

The answer to this question is so simple...I can't believe I even have to say this!!!!!

If you were in Hell...

there would be no firearms!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DUH!!!!!

inplanotx · 03-19-2004, 01:04 PM

Way to go Boomer! Quite simple at that huh?

ROFLMAO........

03-19-2004, 01:06 PM

how bout pinch yourself and see if it hurts?

IShootBack · 03-19-2004, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by glocknut
I read in the bible, and I can't remember the Chapter and verse, i sure wish i could....but it stated that "what is to come, already is..."

Mike:

Prove it's in the bible because I do not believe it is.

As I recall, your quote was from the Charlton Heston movie "The 10 Commandments". It was spoken by the rich jewish merchant that was thrown out of Egypt (in the movie).

IMHO, Hell is eternal banishment from God and His perfect love.
And since we are not banished from his love, this cannot be hell.

["The bible also spoke of how a person would be before the judgement throne and would remember their life with crystal clarity.....which does not prove that once a person was in hell that he would have as clear of a mind as they did before the throne.... "]

Also not what the bible says. God will show us our lives as we are judged - we'll not remember them.

As logic would infer, in hell, the poor souls there will not only remember their lives but be forever seperated from happieness, joy...Pretty much the direct opposite of Heaven.

Sounds as though you are on a quest for answers. Have you tried asking God in prayer to answer them for you?
It always works for me. Just not in my time table...

ISB

glocknut · 03-19-2004, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Greg

If my assumption is incorrect(about being Christian), then your proof you are asking for will not be proven within the realm of science within our world of reality. It is spiritual. It has to reside within faith. You have to look for the answer in the right place. If you are not a spiritual person, then the question you ask is not any different than asking to prove that God exists. You probably aren't going to find that one on the Forum, let alone anywhere. I guess in this case, unless you get a personal visit, you can keep searching.

I believe this is as close as I will ever come to getting an answer about my theory.....

Quote:

However, if you are an athiast or an agnostic, you wouldn't be worried about being in hell, since it wouldn't exist, and no judgement would have been made.

I'm not an athiast......

I have tried to be a christian......but to be one, I must forgive....and for me that does not come naturally......

Not only does it not come naturally, I have'nt been able to force myself to do it either......

mike

glocknut · 03-19-2004, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SouthernMoss
Do you remember the context of this quote? I've done a word search in several of the more common translations of the Bible and can't find it.

I'm fairly certain it was from the bible.......However, I am absolutely positive that it was in "print form" I did not remember it from a "movie".....as someone had thought....

My folks tried to look it up as well......without luck...

mike

rosierita · 03-19-2004, 07:48 PM

hey dont let the "details" tie you down! what i mean by that is, before forgiveness even matters, you gotta accept Jesus as Lord in your life.

if you have already done that ~ GREAT!

if not, that's what you gotta decide! it's more than just trying to be a christian. ultimately God wants the relationship, the rest WILL come later! i have had a problem w/ forgiveness in the past. i basically told God i couldnt do it! ya know, i REALLY feel like He let me know that i didnt have to FEEL the forgiveness or feel like forgiving, for me just to COMMIT myself to doing it. you cant hide anything from God, so ya might as well admit your faults to yourself & to Him.

forgiveness is actually more for you than it is for the one you are forgiving, bc this unforgiveness that you have on your heart is doing nothing but eating at your mind & taking your focus away from being a productive christian (& potentially making you sick.

so, just say to yourself (& to God) ~ "okay, we both know i dont want to forgive this person(s), but You say i should, i dont feel it yet, but i COMMIT myself to forgiving this person(s). then, let it go! when those thoughts come back to your mind, say "i commit to forgive them". also, pray ~ asking God to help you w/ it. He WILL help you w/ it.

dont beat yourself up over this. God is patient, He is loving & He wants what is best for you! that's what these laws are all about!

swanshot · 03-20-2004, 05:30 AM

I can't, you can't, live with it. ENJOY!!!

03-20-2004, 08:04 AM

prove to me you're not on drugs

glocknut · 03-20-2004, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 10X
prove to me you're not on drugs

LOL !!!

I do have a vivid imagination don't I............

mike

berto64 · 03-20-2004, 03:23 PM

Mike,

Forgiveness was my stumbling block also, not to forgive others, but to forgive myself for the sins I have committed. I pray for guidance with this problem daily and I am able to do what God has asked of me, to forgive myself.

There is a poster in the adult classroom at church that has a picture of the Christ that says...."I never said it would be easy, I said it would be WORTH it!"

To recieve the Grace and Forgiveness of God, you have to accept Him on His terms and live your life according to His will. And it was one of the most difficult things I have ever tried to do in my life.
Giving Control of my life to God's Will was difficult, but I believe I am a much greater person than I have ever been in my life.

Besides, there ain't no ISP's in Hell.

berto

03-19-2004, 01:30 AM	#1
glocknut Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: THE FORUM MASCOTT... Posts: 12,482	Prove to me that I'm not alread dead, in hell, and reliving my life over and over.... I've hit many preachers with this question over the last couple of years......and not one of them had an answer to the question...heck some did'nt even try...the local Mormons tried the hardest but still could'nt refute my theory... I read in the bible, and I can't remember the Chapter and verse, i sure wish i could....but it stated that "what is to come, already is..." I know its in there....I read it!! The bible also spoke of how a person would be before the judgement throne and would remember their life with crystal clarity.....which does not prove that once a person was in hell that he would have as clear of a mind as they did before the throne.... Like the title of this thread states, can anyone prove that I'm not already dead, in hell, and reliving my life over and over as a punishment? Just because the words of the Bible can still be read in book form, does not mean that the promise of salvation is still available..... Anyone want to take a crack at this one? mike __________________ Where O where are you tonight? Why have you gone and left me alone? I searched to world over and a thought i found true love... You met another and PTThhh you were gone.... -->

03-19-2004, 02:10 AM	#2
Greg V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: New Mexico Posts: 117	When you dream, and think you are a butterfly, and when you are awake and you think you are a man, are you a butterfly dreaming that you are a man-or whatever? A tuffy, but this one is up to you Glocknut, and your own personal journey. Do you have the capacity to love, and to receive love? Do you love yourself? Do you have fundamental truths and values that you believe in, and live by? Wherever you are actually at now (or think you are), you make your own heaven or hell until you reach enlightenment. Sound crazy? Last edited by Greg; 03-19-2004 at 02:15 AM..

03-19-2004, 02:27 AM	#3
glocknut Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: THE FORUM MASCOTT... Posts: 12,482	If I am in Hell...i hope i never reach......."enlightenment" It bothers me that my theory cannot be disproved... mike __________________ Where O where are you tonight? Why have you gone and left me alone? I searched to world over and a thought i found true love... You met another and PTThhh you were gone....

03-19-2004, 03:13 AM	#4
Greg V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: New Mexico Posts: 117	O.K. How about this... Since you are mentioning Heaven and Hell, and the Bible, I will work with the assumption that you are Christian. If you are, then you believe that God made you in his image. This being true, then a part of God is in you. If a part of God is in you, then a promise was made to you that salvation exists for you if you truly accept and believe that Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior. If you have, then you would not be in hell. If my assumption is incorrect(about being Christian), then your proof you are asking for will not be proven within the realm of science within our world of reality. It is spiritual. It has to reside within faith. You have to look for the answer in the right place. If you are not a spiritual person, then the question you ask is not any different than asking to prove that God exists. You probably aren't going to find that one on the Forum, let alone anywhere. I guess in this case, unless you get a personal visit, you can keep searching. However, if you are an athiast or an agnostic, you wouldn't be worried about being in hell, since it wouldn't exist, and no judgement would have been made. __________________ "The higher, the fewer." Last edited by Greg; 03-19-2004 at 03:27 AM..

03-19-2004, 08:54 AM	#9
rosierita Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: South Carolina Posts: 5,218	interesting....... whatever you believe, it takes faith! i have read the bible a good bit & i dont recall reading those words, the future is fortold in the bible tho. ya know, i believe that God speaks to us thru His word, so maybe that was more your interpretation of what you were reading?? i dunno! i do believe that whether we are in heaven or in hell, we'll remember our earthly life. in heaven, we'll remember those things done on earth, but we'll have God's perspective on it, remember there will be no sorrow or tears in heaven. in hell, i believe those there will have their total memory, but in addition to that, they'll see their wickedness & all of their opportunities to accept Christ. the bible says that we're all appointed a time to die & face a judgement. not all of the judgements will be the same! christians will be in one judgement, those that are not saved will be in another. it is my belief that christians will be judged on missed opportunities, chances they had to witness & didnt. (bc their salvation has already been determined) those not saved will be judged for their sins & cast into the lake of fire. after death of the natural body, those that are saved will have an incorruptable body. so, if you're getting sick & you're a christian, you arent in heaven yet! if you arent a christian & you're in the presence of christians, you arent in hell yet. if you are a christian & you're having doubts ~ get back into that bible!! & of course surround yourself w/ like believers. i hope this makes sense, if not, sorry for rambling! __________________

03-19-2004, 05:27 AM	#5
Remington597 Former Guest Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,201	Jesus Christ is our lord and saviour. Self sacrifice is the ultimate love and therefore the ultimate truth. Hell is a state of existence which is separation from God and is a conscious choice due to the fact that we are given the precious gift of free will because God loves us and decided not to make us into puppets. The next time you are in any National Park, look at the majesty of the nature around you and appreciate His work. Look into the eyes of an infant and see his glory. Look at a nice Glock and see the mechanical wisdom he has given us. Appreciate His majesty in full, better yet, look at a human cell under an atomic microscope and tell me its a results of random selection and not a complex intelligent design. Better yet, think of how you felt when you first fell in love and tell me its a random firing of chemical reactions. God is real and so it hell. Hell is separation from God, I suggest togetherness with God is better than separation from him. On a more practical side, this will help you avoid an ulcer.

03-19-2004, 08:37 AM	#8
JohnnyRobotic V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Wareham, Massachusetts Posts: 265	I'm no expert but it seems to me that hell would be living forever, being immortal . . .but isn't that what heaven is, i think it'd be a pretty boring place after the first few hundred years . . .no beer up there i heard but seriously what is there to do up there besides just hang out for ETERNITY ! could i make visits back to earth, other plants, galaxies, dimensions?

03-19-2004, 09:33 AM	#10
ibtrukn Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: central N.J. Posts: 4,335	alla yooze R missin da pernt. ast slick willie........he nose wot is is.........

03-19-2004, 12:08 PM	#12
rosierita Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: South Carolina Posts: 5,218	jr ~ what i was meaning was bc we'll have God's perspective on things, there wont be any sorry. in other words, we'll be able to see the total picture & understand things better & we'll also know that God brought us out of those things. __________________

03-19-2004, 12:56 PM	#13
Boomatic Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,088	The answer to this question is so simple...I can't believe I even have to say this!!!!! If you were in Hell... there would be no firearms!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DUH!!!!! __________________ Boom-a-tic Boomer Sooner!!

03-19-2004, 01:04 PM	#14
inplanotx Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 8,897	Way to go Boomer! Quite simple at that huh? ROFLMAO........ __________________

03-19-2004, 01:06 PM	#15
10X Adnanced Senior Member Posts: n/a	how bout pinch yourself and see if it hurts?

03-19-2004, 07:48 PM	#19
rosierita Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: South Carolina Posts: 5,218	hey dont let the "details" tie you down! what i mean by that is, before forgiveness even matters, you gotta accept Jesus as Lord in your life. if you have already done that ~ GREAT! if not, that's what you gotta decide! it's more than just trying to be a christian. ultimately God wants the relationship, the rest WILL come later! i have had a problem w/ forgiveness in the past. i basically told God i couldnt do it! ya know, i REALLY feel like He let me know that i didnt have to FEEL the forgiveness or feel like forgiving, for me just to COMMIT myself to doing it. you cant hide anything from God, so ya might as well admit your faults to yourself & to Him. forgiveness is actually more for you than it is for the one you are forgiving, bc this unforgiveness that you have on your heart is doing nothing but eating at your mind & taking your focus away from being a productive christian (& potentially making you sick. so, just say to yourself (& to God) ~ "okay, we both know i dont want to forgive this person(s), but You say i should, i dont feel it yet, but i COMMIT myself to forgiving this person(s). then, let it go! when those thoughts come back to your mind, say "i commit to forgive them". also, pray ~ asking God to help you w/ it. He WILL help you w/ it. dont beat yourself up over this. God is patient, He is loving & He wants what is best for you! that's what these laws are all about! __________________

03-20-2004, 05:30 AM	#20
swanshot Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Perth western australia Posts: 1,436	I can't, you can't, live with it. ENJOY!!! __________________ If you don't bleed you haven't bin trying

03-20-2004, 08:04 AM	#21
10X Adnanced Senior Member Posts: n/a	prove to me you're not on drugs

03-20-2004, 03:23 PM	#23
berto64 VMBB Admin Staff Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Owyhee County, Idaho Contributor Posts: 7,388	Mike, Forgiveness was my stumbling block also, not to forgive others, but to forgive myself for the sins I have committed. I pray for guidance with this problem daily and I am able to do what God has asked of me, to forgive myself. There is a poster in the adult classroom at church that has a picture of the Christ that says...."I never said it would be easy, I said it would be WORTH it!" To recieve the Grace and Forgiveness of God, you have to accept Him on His terms and live your life according to His will. And it was one of the most difficult things I have ever tried to do in my life. Giving Control of my life to God's Will was difficult, but I believe I am a much greater person than I have ever been in my life. Besides, there ain't no ISP's in Hell. berto __________________ Be who you are & say what you will, Those that matter won't mind and those that mind don't matter. I'm a bitter clinger, One Nation Under God.