Choosing a Dillon progressive press

[LDBennett]

A recent post here from a guy having trouble getting his new Dillon RL650 set up made me post this guide as to which Dillon to buy. Based on his post I think he over bought for his uses. The most expensive press is not necessarily the best press for all users.

The Square Deal.... For pistol calibers only. It uses only Dillon dies. It can produce large quantities fast in those pistol calibers. It has auto indexing of the table and if something goes wrong at one station during the reloading process then that feature can be a nightmare. If you shoot competition pistol this is the press for you because it makes lots of ammo fast.

Dillon RL650.... Premium, expensive, high volume pistol and rifle press. It uses regular dies. It has auto indexing of the table which, as in the Sq. Deal, can lead to nightmares when problems happen at one station. This press is hard to use as a single stage press but can be used as a turret press. The RL650 is not really the press to start on as you have to learn the reloading processes while learning to use a complicated press.

Dillon RL550B.... The most versatile of the Dillon presses. It uses regular dies. It does pistol and rifle cartridges, single stage, turret operation, or full progressive. The table is manually indexed which makes fixing a problem at a single stage easy. If you are going to buy a Dillon this is the one to buy unless you are only shooting pistol (then buy the Sq. Deal), or if you need high volume (then buy the RL650). The RL550 is the beginner's press as it allows easy single stage operation as well as turret press, and full progressive.

What is the difference between single stage, turret and full progressive?

Single stage is done in lots. You do the sizing of the entire lot, then the powder delivery in the entire lot, then the bullet seating and crimping of the entire lot. It takes at least three pulls of the press handle to get one finished cartridge and the cartridge has to be placed on the press table and removed at least three times. (remember this is a generalization for using the Dillon presses.)

Turret press operation takes three pulls of the handle to get one finished cartridge but you do all process with one loading of the cartridge onto the press table, manually indexing the case to each station. It can be three times faster than a single stage press.

Full progressive reloading gives you one finished cartridge for every pull of the handle. At least three process are being done at one pull of the handle on three different cartridges. This makes it three times faster than a turret press. Full progressive reloading is at probably 5 times or more faster than single stage reloading. When things go wrong they go wrong big time and manual indexing helps to reduce the confusions and the problem.

Hope this helps.

LDBennett

[Freebore]

LD,

Nicely put....

[frosty]

I would buy an RCBS 2000.

Its cheaper in the long run to use compared to the dillon.

What I am getting is shell plates and such. If you do the math and add up everything to get started for one caliber between the two presses the RCBS is cheaper.

No, you do not have to have a powder measure set up for every single caliber with a set of dies in a die plate. That is mere convenience.

Oh, yeah its still INPLANOTX's fault for getting me started in reloading and casting....................

[LDBennett]

frosty:

Based on history you may not be able to get parts for the RCBS press in the future. Why? Because this is perhaps the third or fourth RCBS iteration of a progressive press over the same time period as the Dillon RL550B has been on the market. Seems RCBS has had a problem getting it right (??).

There is no press on the market that compares to the versatility, quality, durability, and warrantee/service of the Dillon RL550B. Yes, there are other presses but they fall down in at least one of those areas.

But we all get to choose and 20+ years of good service from my Dillon RL550B makes me a bit biased. You get to buy whatever you want.

LDBennett

[Waldog]

LD and I have bantered back and forth so many times I consider him a good friend!!
Not all Auto-Progressive presses are a nightmare if you have a problem at one station during loading. Some AP's are MUCH easier than others in clearing a problem.

Also, (This is my opinion, LD disagrees!!), a manually indexing press is easier to get a double charge in a pistol case if you are distracted. In my OPINION, an auto-indexing press significanty reduces this error. Remember, these are opinions based on experience and I certainly respect LD's experience.

LD is absolutely correct in stating the the 550 can easily be used as a "single stage" press.

[woolleyworm]

[quote=Waldog;582170]a manually indexing press is easier to get a double charge in a pistol case if you are distracted. In my OPINION, an auto-indexing press significanty reduces this error. quote]

I do agree with your statement 100%. I think there are obvious signs to pay attention to in order to avoid a double charge. I think the lack of "primer seat" feel should warn anyone to check the case for a double. Rather difficult to miss the feel of seating a primer, but it could happen if distracted and subsequently diving back into the process without double checking everything and getting back into the right mindset. I think if someone were to miss this, then they would be almost as liable to make a critical error with any other press as well.

I know that we've all made errors before, it comes down to being able to spot and discern them before they blow up in our faces ( literally). If reloaders were given a choice of any one press out on the market, the 550 would be the 1911 of presses IMO.

[frosty]

RCBS still is making the 2000 manually indexing press today. It has served me very well. I have never had a problem with it....EVER.

Nothing has ever broken on it. Small things made of plastic (just like on the Dillon) do wear out but, RCBS has replaced them for free....exactly like Dillon. Its been years since I needed anything (regular upkeep) from RCBS (just like Dillon). So its a wash either way you really look at it.

I like the Dillon presses, I have several friends that have one of some flavor or another. At the time I wanted a progressive the RCBS cost less. Still even today it cost less than the Dillon.

Both presses do the same job.
Both presses share many of the same attributes.
It really comes down to how much money you want to pay up front to get started.


Regards
Frosty

[LDBennett]

Before Dillon service in the reloading industry was poor. If it broke you got to buy another one. Dillons service has always been exemplary. They changed the industry's take on after sales service.

Here's my story on Dillon's service:

When I started reloading I had two pistols. My financial situation (single father recently divorced paying alimony) so I thought they were all I would ever own in the way of guns. I bought the Square Deal. It worked well enough but occasionally broke (I think in retrospect that I broke it by allowing the handle to hit the bench with every pull). When I contacted Dillon after having the press for over a year to get replacement parts which they offered for free, I was starting to buy rifles too. I expressed my aggravation with having bought the pistol press when I then needed another press to do rifle cartridges. The comment was in passing and Dillon asked what would please me. I said a RL550B. They took back the Sq. Deal for full value, applied its full value to a new RL550B and billed me for the difference in list price. Hornady would not do that for me when their piece of junk shotgun press continuously failed and they came out with a new model. Others tell me that RCBS at that time would not have done that either. In the interim Dillon has provided parts that wear out and break and has done two complete overhauls on my heavily used press for free. They mean life-time warrantee! They have even replaced Dillon presses that were damaged in a house fire!

Dillon changed the reloading industry's take on warrantees and service.

LDBennett

[frosty]

L.D.
That is some excellent customer service you received. I personally have never heard of another company doing as much as Dillon. I agree that Dillon has set the bar for superb service. Yes, everybody else has had to either match it or suffer the consequences.

Regards
Frosty

[socalfamous87]

Originally Posted by LDBennett

A recent post here from a guy having trouble getting his new Dillon RL650 set up made me post this guide as to which Dillon to buy. Based on his post I think he over bought for his uses. The most expensive press is not necessarily the best press for all users.

The Square Deal.... For pistol calibers only. It uses only Dillon dies. It can produce large quantities fast in those pistol calibers. It has auto indexing of the table and if something goes wrong at one station during the reloading process then that feature can be a nightmare. If you shoot competition pistol this is the press for you because it makes lots of ammo fast.

Dillon RL650.... Premium, expensive, high volume pistol and rifle press. It uses regular dies. It has auto indexing of the table which, as in the Sq. Deal, can lead to nightmares when problems happen at one station. This press is hard to use as a single stage press but can be used as a turret press. The RL650 is not really the press to start on as you have to learn the reloading processes while learning to use a complicated press.

Dillon RL550B.... The most versatile of the Dillon presses. It uses regular dies. It does pistol and rifle cartridges, single stage, turret operation, or full progressive. The table is manually indexed which makes fixing a problem at a single stage easy. If you are going to buy a Dillon this is the one to buy unless you are only shooting pistol (then buy the Sq. Deal), or if you need high volume (then buy the RL650). The RL550 is the beginner's press as it allows easy single stage operation as well as turret press, and full progressive.

What is the difference between single stage, turret and full progressive?

Single stage is done in lots. You do the sizing of the entire lot, then the powder delivery in the entire lot, then the bullet seating and crimping of the entire lot. It takes at least three pulls of the press handle to get one finished cartridge and the cartridge has to be placed on the press table and removed at least three times. (remember this is a generalization for using the Dillon presses.)

Turret press operation takes three pulls of the handle to get one finished cartridge but you do all process with one loading of the cartridge onto the press table, manually indexing the case to each station. It can be three times faster than a single stage press.

Full progressive reloading gives you one finished cartridge for every pull of the handle. At least three process are being done at one pull of the handle on three different cartridges. This makes it three times faster than a turret press. Full progressive reloading is at probably 5 times or more faster than single stage reloading. When things go wrong they go wrong big time and manual indexing helps to reduce the confusions and the problem.

Hope this helps.

LDBennett

Do they even sell single stage Dillon presses?

[LDBennett]

No but the RL550B can be used as one.

[woolleyworm]

Originally Posted by socalfamous87

Do they even sell single stage Dillon presses?

They have had the BL-550 out for a little while now; it can be fully upgraded to a 550B in stages.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=risKd6tknJo

PM sent socal.

[LDBennett]

The BL550 is actually a multi-station Turret press, not a single stage press.

LDBennett

[cpttango30]

Originally Posted by Waldog

LD and I have bantered back and forth so many times I consider him a good friend!!
Not all Auto-Progressive presses are a nightmare if you have a problem at one station during loading. Some AP's are MUCH easier than others in clearing a problem.

Also, (This is my opinion, LD disagrees!!), a manually indexing press is easier to get a double charge in a pistol case if you are distracted. In my OPINION, an auto-indexing press significanty reduces this error. Remember, these are opinions based on experience and I certainly respect LD's experience.

LD is absolutely correct in stating the the 550 can easily be used as a "single stage" press.

I have owned a 550b for 6 or 8 years now. Yes it is much easier to get a double charge. As for problems with the Dillon you just pull the pin and slide the cartridge out.

[LDBennett]

Double charges?

I reload for over 30 different cartridges, many are pistols. I have NEVER gotten a double charge out of my Dillon RL550B. Why?

I pay attention when I am reloading. I have a series of hand movement that are almost natural because I have been doing them for so long (over 25 years). If I loose concentration because of some problem on the press I stop and inspect each station to be sure I know where I am at. I watch every stage of the press with every pull and listen for every sound and pay attention to the feel of the press handle. If anything is "funny" I stop and check everything. I may operate my progressive slower than some but that way I am sure all is right.

The case for double charges I think is more of a possibility when you reload single stage and use blocks to hold the cases while putting the powder in them. Automatic operation of auto advancing presses is too remote for me. The press can screw up and you'll not be aware since all you are doing is pulling the handle (well almost). The extra hand movement to advance the table of my RL550B is totally automatic for me after all these years and I have control of the press. Yes, I had an auto advance press (actually two...Lee and Dillon Square Deal) and I prefer the manual advance of the RL550B.

LDBennett

[woolleyworm]

Originally Posted by LDBennett

Double charges?

I reload for over 30 different cartridges, many are pistols. I have NEVER gotten a double charge out of my Dillon RL550B. Why?

I pay attention when I am reloading. I have a series of hand movement that are almost natural because I have been doing them for so long (over 25 years). If I loose concentration because of some problem on the press I stop and inspect each station to be sure I know where I am at. I watch every stage of the press with every pull and listen for every sound and pay attention to the feel of the press handle. If anything is "funny" I stop and check everything. I may operate my progressive slower than some but that way I am sure all is right.

The case for double charges I think is more of a possibility when you reload single stage and use blocks to hold the cases while putting the powder in them. Automatic operation of auto advancing presses is too remote for me. The press can screw up and you'll not be aware since all you are doing is pulling the handle (well almost). The extra hand movement to advance the table of my RL550B is totally automatic for me after all these years and I have control of the press. Yes, I had an auto advance press (actually two...Lee and Dillon Square Deal) and I prefer the manual advance of the RL550B.

LDBennett

I feel the same; you can pull the handle twice and get a double charge; that is a fact. You'd have to be pretty careless to not feel the difference on the second pull and also realize that you've already got a bullet seated when there shouldn't be one. Good habits and paying attention will save a reloader every time. I've never had a double charge other than the ones that I throw in my test cases (note TEST cases) I will always throw a double charge in my test cases to get a visual on it. Note also - I weight out the charge and pour it into the case while it's in a powder pan, so that if it does overflow the case, it doesn't overflow on my press.

I like to follow my hand with my eyes when I'm turning the starwheel, my eyes then glance in the case before I set the bullet. Each and everytime, the same pace and steps; methodical and steady.

I am going to go with a 650 eventually, but that's just due to increases in volume and I will have a powder check die installed. Good habits will still be in place no matter what press I'm using.

[zant]

I agree with L.D.....I've had my 550 since 1994...I can crank out .45 and other handgun ammo.....or I can load match .308 or H&H 30 Improved,1 at a time and make them accurate as heck...I personally won't own a reloader with auto indexing......unless I win powerball and have a Dillon 1050 for each cartridge I load

[JohnTheCalifornian]

One of the best ways to assure you never get double charges is trying to find a load that almost fills the case, if a double charge were to occur, it would a messy and very obvious mistake. But as others have said, giving your full undivided attention to the task at hand is paramount.

[Caneman]

double charges can be prevented by using an auto indexing press, and if you have a 5th station on your press and you can use a powder checking die...

[myfriendis410]

I own TWO Square Deal B's. They are without a doubt the BEST way to load pistol rounds in quantity. I also greatly appreciate the small footprint they have on my bench. The powder measure is as accurate as any I've ever seen as well. I too have had experience with Dillon's "No BS" warranty and it's just as LD said. I also find it very easy to clear a problem; just pull the pin and out comes the problem case. The only downside is using the proprietary dies for the machine as they are kind of pricey. I find it more than pays for itself in the sheer volume of loaded ammo it pukes out. It is a little slower when loading long cases like .41 mag or 44 mag, but in the .45 acp it's awesome.

[Dirtypacman]

Great discussion going on here. Coming from the Dillon side as a 550B user I too have a methodical routine for each and every round I produce. My tips for assuring no problems are as follows:

1) Try to maintain your equipment- wipe it down or blow it out. Keeps things moving smoothly. Note this does not mean lubrication every single spot every single time. More just wipe it down and make sure its clean.

2) A clean work area helps - try never to mix components on your bench. Always keep the original containers when possible or clearly mark the new container with what its contents will be. I tend to remove any materials from one caliber to the next when I switch over.

3) Stop at the first sign of a problem. Example If the primer is not seating properly don't just continue to try and muscle it in. Everything should be a smooth but steady stroke of the handle. If you notice resistance most likely a problem is happening or going to start to happen. Stop and check the station for signs of the problem and correct as necessary.

4) If you do stop for any reason - sign of a problem, phone call, etc. before you just start loading up again review each station and assure where you left off. Most double charges will happen when you stop and start again but did not realize you had already pulled the handle on that load.

5) Visually inspect the charge before placing the bullet into the case. My seat sits high enough and close enough that this can be done in a glance at the same time I am indexing to the next station.

6) Feel the flow. You can get in a rhythm pretty easy on any progressive station once you have locked down your dies and found your favorite recipe. Once you have a good feel of the equipment it can be pretty simple to "feel" something amiss on a stage. As stated in #3 this is the time to stop, review, and correct as necessary.

I have had my fair share of problems as I seated too far or not enough. A bit too much crimp or not enough. One time I even have had a missed charge (on a batch of 10 if you can believe that but I obviously was not following my own routine). I have never had a double charge and credit that to taking my time and following the simple rules of reloading.

[LDBennett]

Caneman:

If it ain't broke don't fix it. You do not have to have a auto indexing press to avoid double charges. You just have to follow what I and Dirtypacman said when using the Dillon RL550B.

There is no point is raising this issue if it is not a real problem. No matter what you reload with in the way of presses you have to pay attention! I have never even come close to double charging. If a person is so inept that they don't have the ability to concentrate for a few hours while making ammo then they should not be reloading!

LDBennett

[Caneman]

double charges with the Dillon 550 is a known issue with that machine... no amount of blue kool aide swiggin' can make that one go away!!!

[LDBennett]

Caneman:

I've been coming here since 2003 and I have not heard one complaint about the Dillon RL550B having an "issue" with double charges. IF anyone has ever double charged a case it has been from their own stupidity and not because the machine caused it.

LDBennett

[cpttango30]

The double charge is why I run a RCBS powder cop die and if I get interrupted I finish everything in the press and then go see what my wife or kids want.

There is no point is raising this issue if it is not a real problem. No matter what you reload with in the way of presses you have to pay attention! I have never even come close to double charging. If a person is so inept that they don't have the ability to concentrate for a few hours while making ammo then they should not be reloading!

I know a very good family friend. He loaded on a 550b since it came on the market. He had a 450 before that. This man was not INEPT by any means. He was a great shooter and a great reloader. He got a single double charge and it cost him a revolver.

Humans are imperfect and therefor we make MISTAKES. To say someone shouldn't be loading ammo or shooting because of a single mistake is just crazy.

Same thing can be said about ND's. In my 30 years of shooting I have never had one. I say they don't happen if you pay attention and use the safety rules. But, to say because someone had one they should never be allowed to shoot again is dumb.

All it takes is a split second of a lapse in concentration and bang your done. No one is perfect not even you.

I guess I shouldn't be loading because at 9 years old I made the mistake of cutting too much off of the primer pockets of milsurp 30-06 brass and some of the primers fell out.

Hell just last year I made a mistake and forgot to put powder in 5 cases. I caught it and fixed it. I was tired and needed to get ammo loaded for an F-class match. It was a mistake I had loaded that load thousands of times before. I caught it fixed it and stopped.

Just be careful.