.45 Long Colt - .45 Colt - Which is Right & Which is Not!

[JohnnyFlake]

First, let me say that I did a search or two and nothing came up for me on this issue. So, I apologize if this has been discussed too many times already. Anyway, I'd like to know once and for all.

Many people insist that it's .45 Colt, however, a large number of enthusiast insist that .45 Long Colt is correct.

Those that insist .45 Long Colt is correct, say it is because in the 1880s for about a decade there actually was a round named .45 Colt Short. In fact, the Wikipedia Site confirms that as fact.

There is no clear reason, that I can find, explaining why the name .45 Colt Short was dropped but it was. Some articles and post that I have read in the past, have claimed that the .45 Colt Short became known as the .45 Schofield.

Does anyone have a reliable source on information which gives a clear definition of what is correct?

Opinions and thoughts are all welcome!

[76Highboy]

The reloading manuals all list it as 45 Colt. They will all give a brief history of the so called name and caliber, so that will sum it up by the pro's. Generally and naturally, any reloader worth his weight will call it 45 Colt because that is how the books call it so that is how the reloader learns it if they pay attention. I do not understand why people that shoot store bought ammo call it 45 Long Colt, because the labels on the boxes even say 45 Colt. A gunman calling it 45 Long Colt is like calling a GMC a Chevy. It's not at all right. I encourage all shooters to read every reloading manual you can find. That is the authority on the correct terminology. Also, research how the pro's like Elmer Keith and Jeff Cooper addressed the different calibers. Hope this helps.

[savage170]

I think the term long colt came from this just so the troopers wouldn't try to chamber them in the Schofield

The .45 Schofield cartridge was shorter than the .45 Long Colt. It could be used in both the Schofield and the Colt 45 Peacemaker, but the .45 Long Colt was too long to use in the Schofield. As a result, by the 1880s the army finally standardized on a .45 cartridge designed to fire in both revolvers, the M1887 Military Ball Cartridge. The M1887 was made at Frankford Arsenal, and was issued only to the military. It had a shortened case and reduced rim; as it was short enough to fit the Schofield, and its rim was not needed for the rod-ejector Single Action Army, the M1887 would fire and eject from both revolvers

[Little Rooster]

Is it rims or wheels?

[76Highboy]

Originally Posted by Little Rooster

Is it rims or wheels?

That's funny.

[Kevin Rohrer]

Most everyone on these sites and in my company refer to the cartridge as the ".45 Long Colt" and write it as ".45LC", so as not to confuse it w/ any of the other .45 cartridges.

[RandyP]

Maybe folks shop on the internet where it is called Long Colt by some suppliers like Cabelas or Cheaper Than Dirt?

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Magte...h-All+Products

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM4961-1.html

In truth does anyone out there 'really' have their day ruined one way or the other? LOL

[Old Grump]

When I was a puppy a Schofield was a Schofield and 45ACP was 45 auto or 45ACP, (my preference). The real 45's were 45 colt. Yeah yeah, I'm a dinosaur but even then I heard the Schofield story and why some called the 45 colt 45 long. Later the story changed because of the 45ACP but either way among us guys who like shooting the 45 it is a 45 colt. We may be wrong but our minds are made up so take that and stuff it in your pipe, we ain't gonna call it no 45 long.

[JohnnyFlake]

This has been very interesting so far guys. I have been around longer than most of you, so I am one who refers to the .45 Colt as .45 Colt. However, there are many, many people out there who insist on .45 Long Colt. I am just trying to understand the reasoning behind both points of view.

[mikld]

Today, with no other cartridges to confuse it with, it's "45 Colt"...

[JLA]

Yep, officially known as 'Colt' and 'ACP', the 2 major .45s.

[JLA]

Long colt was unofficially dubbed to the .45 colt because the .38 long colt had a .38 short colt counterpart and the .38 long colt was about the same length as the .45 colt, therefore folks just called it the long colt, even though it didnt have a short colt counterpart.

[JohnnyFlake]

Originally Posted by JLA

Long colt was unofficially dubbed to the .45 colt because the .38 long colt had a .38 short colt counterpart and the .38 long colt was about the same length as the .45 colt, therefore folks just called it the long colt, even though it didnt have a short colt counterpart.

That is not correct, at least according to Wikipedia and other Western History Encyclopedias. According to the historical documentation, in those guides, there was a .45 Colt Short, by name, in the 1880s. But it's life span was only about a decade. As I mentioned above, many believe it became known as the .45 Schofield.

[76Highboy]

Originally Posted by Old Grump

When I was a puppy a Schofield was a Schofield and 45ACP was 45 auto or 45ACP, (my preference). The real 45's were 45 colt. Yeah yeah, I'm a dinosaur but even then I heard the Schofield story and why some called the 45 colt 45 long. Later the story changed because of the 45ACP but either way among us guys who like shooting the 45 it is a 45 colt. We may be wrong but our minds are made up so take that and stuff it in your pipe, we ain't gonna call it no 45 long.

It is not wrong, it's just not the "correct identifier". It doesn't matter how one says it. Hey Old grump, I don't have a pipe to smoke it in. Can you pass one over this way.

[JLA]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlake

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That is not correct, at least according to Wikipedia and other Western History Encyclopedias. According to the historical documentation, in those guides, there was a .45 Colt Short, by name, in the 1880s. But it's life span was only about a decade. As I mentioned above, many believe it became known as the .45 Schofield.

You misunderstand what you read..

The .45 Schofield was never known officially as the short colt, it was for a short time called the .45 short because it was also chambered and used in the Colt SAA in the 1880s. It was known as the .45 schofield long before it was known as the .45 short. Both cartridges came on scene around the same time (1871-1873 for the schofield) and 1872 for the colt. But the colt was intended specifically for the 1873 Colt SAA and the Schofield was intended specifically for the S&W break top cavalry revolvers, that later bacame known as schofields due to modifications by Major George Schofield.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Colt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Schofield

[JohnnyFlake]

Originally Posted by JLA

You misunderstand what you read..

The .45 Schofield was never known officially as the short colt, it was for a short time called the .45 short because it was also chambered and used in the Colt SAA in the 1880s. It was known as the .45 schofield long before it was known as the .45 short. Both cartridges came on scene around the same time (1871-1873 for the schofield) and 1872 for the colt. But the colt was intended specifically for the 1873 Colt SAA and the Schofield was intended specifically for the S&W break top cavalry revolvers, that later bacame known as schofields due to modifications by Major George Schofield.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Colt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Schofield

My friend, I do not misunderstand what I read. What I said is, that many believe that the Colt Short became known as the .45 Schofield. I did not say that it said that.

My comment that follows:

"That is not correct, at least according to Wikipedia and other Western History Encyclopedias. According to the historical documentation, in those guides, there was a .45 Colt Short, by name, in the 1880s. But it's life span was only about a decade. As I mentioned above, many believe it became known as the .45 Schofield."

was in response to your comment, which follows:

"folks just called it the long colt, even though it didn't have a short colt counterpart."

In you last post, you just confirmed that a Colt Short did exist.

[JLA]

No, I didnt. ".45" is not how you spell 'Colt'.

.45 short, to distinguish which .45 ammo their SAAs were chambered for, and again this was only prevalent during the 1880s when the SAAs were being chambered for both the colt and the schofield.

The whole point of this thread, Flake, is to determine whats correct. I would hope you remember that since you made it... .45 Colt, or .45 Long Colt. And that question has been answered, repeatedly. .45 Colt is correct, bottom line, question answered.. But somehow, along the way, the monaker long colt kinda stuck, and the relative resemblance to the length of the .38 long colt and the existence of the .38 short colt is the story ive heard repeated most as to the origins of the monaker .45 Long Colt.

[JohnnyFlake]

Originally Posted by JLA

No, I didnt. ".45" is not how you spell 'Colt'.

.45 short, to distinguish which .45 ammo their SAAs were chambered for, and again this was only prevalent during the 1880s when the SAAs were being chambered for both the colt and the schofield.

The whole point of this thread, Flake, is to determine whats correct. I would hope you remember that since you made it... .45 Colt, or .45 Long Colt. And that question has been answered, repeatedly. .45 Colt is correct, bottom line, question answered.. But somehow, along the way, the monaker long colt kinda stuck, and the relative resemblance to the length of the .38 long colt and the existence of the .38 short colt is the story ive heard repeated most as to the origins of the monaker .45 Long Colt.

Point made!

You should know, I am not arguing with you, I am trying to draw out as much reasoning, for both sides of the issue, as I can. If you had read and maybe you did, post #9:

"This has been very interesting so far guys. I have been around longer than most of you, so I am one who refers to the .45 Colt as .45 Colt. However, there are many, many people out there who insist on .45 Long Colt. I am just trying to understand the reasoning behind both points of view."

it states that I am among those that believe it should be .45 Colt.

My friend, you seem to get a little aggressive in your tone at times and that's a shame, as for the most part, I find this board very friendly. But, when you get as old as I am, things like that do not bother me at all!

[JLA]

I cant understand how someone can interpret aggression from something as black and white as a message posted in text. Im simply trying to supply truth. Even used your own quoted fact resources to do so.

What makes what Ive posted aggressive? Is it specific wording, punctuation, or just the fact that im engaging in an exchange with you? I never said I didnt agree, somewhat, with your words. I just stated you didnt quite understand what you read regarding the .45 schofield being known as the .45 short colt.

[76Highboy]

Johnny Flake, your a good guy. You both have opinions. But it's like, do you call an engine and engine, or an engine a motor? It doesn't rerally matter in my garage just so you can fix it. We are all friends, and I for one like the back and fourth exchange. If it makes someone feel hurt, maybe there is a 'Woosie Boy" forum, but we are gun guys. And remember, we are the allies, it's the opposition that is the enemy. So, back to fighting.

[JohnnyFlake]

Originally Posted by 76Highboy

Johnny Flake, your a good guy. You both have opinions. But it's like, do you call an engine and engine, or an engine a motor? It doesn't rerally matter in my garage just so you can fix it. We are all friends, and I for one like the back and fourth exchange. If it makes someone feel hurt, maybe there is a 'Woosie Boy" forum, but we are gun guys. And remember, we are the allies, it's the opposition that is the enemy. So, back to fighting.

Well Said!!!

[JohnnyFlake]

Originally Posted by JLA

I cant understand how someone can interpret aggression from something as black and white as a message posted in text. Im simply trying to supply truth. Even used your own quoted fact resources to do so.

What makes what Ive posted aggressive? Is it specific wording, punctuation, or just the fact that im engaging in an exchange with you? I never said I didnt agree, somewhat, with your words. I just stated you didnt quite understand what you read regarding the .45 schofield being known as the .45 short colt.

Please forgive my misinterpretation of how you presented the word "Flake".

My error. No hard feelings please!

[76Highboy]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlake

Well Said!!!

Just if I'm the Ref. please don't hit me. I cry like a girl.

[JLA]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlake

Please forgive my misinterpretation of how you presented the word "Flake".

My error. No hard feelings please!

Flake, as in Johnny Flake, is that not correct?

[RJay]

In this case it doesn't mean a hill of beans which you call it., If you call it a .45 colt or 45 long colt, every one will know what you mean.