So the ATF stopped by today... - The Firearms Forum

Helix_FR · 01-25-2010, 02:28 PM

Just doing an inspection. making sure all my t's were crossed and i's dotted. Didn't have anything in the shop at the time anyway. Really cool gal. Good stories about some of our local big stores. Got to hit her with some "what if" questions. She knew her stuff but them many of them do, can't really be stupid to work for the ATF. She even went through my C&R bound book from 3 years ago. C&R holders look out, their coming to inspect you too. She said they have been lax on the C&R's until the last year. Most of the problem she sees is just improper bound books. They're not out to arrest you, just make sure your doing it right and to correct you if your not, unless your doing something really shady, then you got some explain'n.

Suwannee Tim · 01-25-2010, 02:44 PM

How long were her horns? Did she have a pointy tail? Can you still smell the brimstone?

lockednloaded45 · 01-25-2010, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suwannee Tim

How long were her horns? Did she have a pointy tail? Can you still smell the brimstone?

lol, did she have a pitchfork ?

Helix_FR · 01-25-2010, 03:12 PM

Nah, she was laid back. Wasn't as upiddy as some. Didn't overly probe and ask any trap questions. Just was there to make sure I was doing it right.

bcj1755 · 01-25-2010, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helix_FR

Nah, she was laid back. Wasn't as upiddy as some. Didn't overly probe and ask any trap questions. Just was there to make sure I was doing it right.

I still wouldn't be too trusting. They could just be trying to act nice to make people think they've changed their jackboot ways of the past. Get in nice with people, then "BAM!"

glocknut · 01-25-2010, 04:26 PM

Did she pat you on the back? If so...she was probably looking for a soft spot....

gn

Kieran McCaig · 01-25-2010, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glocknut

Did she pat you on the back? If so...she was probably looking for a soft spot....

gn

Great thinking "put knife here"

bcj1755 · 01-25-2010, 05:04 PM

Remember, the bigger the smile, the sharper the knife.

Ranb · 01-25-2010, 05:12 PM

I was an FFL from 90-94 in the Pearl City Hawaii Navy housing area.

While the local Pass and ID office knew about my gun collection, I never told them about the license. I was inspected by the ATF during my first year. I was told there were two compliance inspectors for Hawaii, Guam and American Samoa back then, and I got the nice guy. The "not so nice" guy inspected one of my friends and threatened him with a citation if he did not get a bound book going to record his dispositions as he was doing it the alternate method and with the wrong forms.

My inspection lasted about 30 minutes then was followed by 30 minutes of questions and answers. He showed up on a weekday, so he had to ask permission as my business hours were only 8-4 on Sundays. I had one error. I had imported a revolver to Hawaii for my personal collection and did not enter it into the business record book then transfer it to the personal inventory book. He told me I did not have to fix it, but I did anyway. All in all a positive experience.

Ranb

Suwannee Tim · 01-25-2010, 05:16 PM

I am all for law enforcement, even gun law enforcement. I think the BATFE should "show the flag" at gun stores, make sure they are keeping the paper work straight and if they are not, help them unless the gun merchant is committing crimes in which case they should come down on him like a ton of bricks. Law enforcement should focus on criminals. I have heard several stories lately regarding BATFE that were positive. I hope they keep up the good work. Just kidding about the horn and tail. Was she hot? Did you get her number?

glocknut · 01-25-2010, 05:25 PM

Government agents are ALLWAYS nice leading up to an election where the republicans could win big....
MSHA was only nice when it was close to election time.

Gn

Terry_P · 01-25-2010, 05:44 PM

It should be a decent experience for someone that is trying to obey the law. The cwap that went on with Red's just shouldn't happen. We pay their salary so they should act like it. Technical/clerical violations should be pointed out in a constructive manner and corrected on the spot. If someone is clearly breaking the law i.e. illegal sales then thats where the agents should focus their effort. I suspect there isn't enough of that to keep them employed so thats why you get some of the petty nit-****. The bad guys steal their guns or buy them on the street.

cycloneman · 01-25-2010, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcj1755

Remember, the bigger the smile, the sharper the knife.

Your right on that. I have heard of a dealer that was told to send back his Barretts. Not to sell anymore.

Helix_FR · 01-25-2010, 06:06 PM

When she called all she wanted to do was make sure everything was in check. May there be ulterior motives behind the visit? Who knows. My experience with her was very positive. And she did state that all they are there to do is make sure that everything was done right and to help if things were done wrong. The previous post about the guy getting in trouble for not having a bound book is his own fault. There are rules and as long as we play the rules we can keep doing what we are doing. My 01 license is not marked as dealer its marked as gunsmith. I don't sell many guns per year if any at all, its mainly parts and 99% of those parts don't require a FFL. Hopefully they don't have much interest in me which I don't think they do.

Helix_FR · 01-25-2010, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suwannee Tim

Was she hot? Did you get her number?

Well not exactly my type. She was about 6'2" (a little taller than me) and thin. If your into women that could probably kick the crap out of you then yes

pinecone70 · 01-25-2010, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helix_FR

Well not exactly my type. She was about 6'2" (a little taller than me) and thin. If your into women that could probably kick the crap out of you then yes

Heh. I had to kick the crap outta somebody once, and I'm only 5'4"....

Helix_FR · 01-25-2010, 06:20 PM

I took and practiced martial arts for about 8 years. Quit b/c I got too busy with my life and got tired of have cracked ribs and a hurt back to the point were I could even hold my own kid. Got tired of that. Even knowing what I know you still get a sense of who you can F with and who your can't. She was on the don't list

My wife is 5'4", she took arnis, I watched her bust some heads. Its cool just don't give her a stick or anything that closely resembles one.

dld · 01-25-2010, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinecone70

Heh. I had to kick the crap outta somebody once, and I'm only 5'4"....

might it have been Red, cough cough

UncleFudd · 01-26-2010, 07:33 AM

Pinecone, I am shocked, I tell you, shocked. I would never have believed it.LOL

As for the BATF, some of you know that I just sold the range that I built and opened back in 88. I had the feds show up two weeks ago just before everything was finished and pulled their compliance inspection.
They were professional and helpful from the outset and in spite of my having 11 violations, they helped us make the corrections and gave us a clean break for the new owners to start with.
They did a good chewing for two of the violations and could have pulled my ticket but they didn't and never threatened to do so. All in all, it was professional and helpful all the way and not one time was there any jackboot of the old days.

NOW, I can lay back and enjoy the retirement and do my best to keep Obunny out of my bank account and try to keep him and his minions from euthanizing me for old age.
That worries me more than the BATF ever did.

UF

Double D · 01-26-2010, 11:17 AM

I agree with UFudd. There are some not so nice people in that organization but my experience so far has been good. From the first contact when I first applied for my FFL to my first inspection, the people were nice and helpfull. I guess if you are not doing your job then they will be harder to get along with but keep things in order and you shouldnt have many issues.

Suwannee Tim · 01-26-2010, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helix_FR

.....If your into women that could probably kick the crap out of you then yes

Give her The Glocknut's phone number.

pinecone70 · 01-26-2010, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UncleFudd

Pinecone, I am shocked, I tell you, shocked. I would never have believed it.LOL

Oh, it wasn't an ATF representative or anything! LOL! It was a "boyfriend" that was drunk and thought taking a swing at me would be a good idea. Nope!! Nobody takes a swing at me.

45nut · 01-26-2010, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinecone70

Heh. I had to kick the crap outta somebody once, and I'm only 5'4"....

I would have paid good money to watch that pinecone!!

(apparently, he needed a good can of whoop-@$$ opened on him.)

Just my .02's worth: All of the alp.ha.bits have good people in their organizations mostly with good intentions. However, we know what road is paved with good intentions. My problem however is with the overall philosophy of the leadership of the alp.hab.its. They seem to think we are peasants and as such, should be disarmed or at least monitored very closely.

I refer to the thugary and abuse of power that so often comes to mind specifically with ba.tfe.

What would you bet that when the confis.cation order comes down, the federalis will be the first ones to sign up to try to disarm us.

If it's a Fedzilla .org group and it uses acronyms as it's name, I don't trust it and generally abhor it. My one exception could be the "C" one. All the rest can pucker up and beso mi coulo.

Ranb · 01-26-2010, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UncleFudd

They were professional and helpful from the outset and in spite of my having 11 violations, they helped us make the corrections and gave us a clean break for the new owners to start with.
They did a good chewing for two of the violations and could have pulled my ticket but they didn't and never threatened to do so. All in all, it was professional and helpful all the way and not one time was there any jackboot of the old days.

Any chance you could tell us what those violations were? Back in the 90's when I was an FFL, I just kept the inventory in my bedroom closet gun safe; easy. I would like to know what they are looking for now. Thanks.

Ranb

Jim K · 01-26-2010, 09:29 PM

Many, probably most, BATFE agents are just doing their job. They have to enforce a very complex set of laws where there are a lot of ambiguities. Further, the area of law is such that many people who are law-abiding are hostile to law enforcement. As an example, many people on this site, presumably honest and law-abiding, hate BATFE. Yet, how many non-drug dealers/users hate DEA or non-counterfeiters despise the Secret Service?

Another BATFE problem is that there are "cowboys" in the Bureau, of the "shoot 'em all" sort. After Waco, there was an honest effort to weed out that type, but they exist in all LE agencies and BATFE is no exception. Then there is the ongoing BATFE-FBI "war" which at times has escalated almost to the shooting stage, as the agencies fought over control of crime scenes and engaged in other "turf wars."

I have not been asked to be a BATFE agent (and am not likely to be) but if I ever were, I would take a pass.

Jim

01-25-2010, 02:28 PM	#1
Helix_FR TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Imperial, MO Posts: 3,617	So the ATF stopped by today... Just doing an inspection. making sure all my t's were crossed and i's dotted. Didn't have anything in the shop at the time anyway. Really cool gal. Good stories about some of our local big stores. Got to hit her with some "what if" questions. She knew her stuff but them many of them do, can't really be stupid to work for the ATF. She even went through my C&R bound book from 3 years ago. C&R holders look out, their coming to inspect you too. She said they have been lax on the C&R's until the last year. Most of the problem she sees is just improper bound books. They're not out to arrest you, just make sure your doing it right and to correct you if your not, unless your doing something really shady, then you got some explain'n. __________________ Only cowards shoot with their eyes closed.... helixgunsmith.com -->

01-25-2010, 02:44 PM	#2
Suwannee Tim Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 2,227	Re: So the ATF stopped by today... How long were her horns? Did she have a pointy tail? Can you still smell the brimstone?

01-25-2010, 03:12 PM	#4
Helix_FR TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Imperial, MO Posts: 3,617	Re: So the ATF stopped by today... Nah, she was laid back. Wasn't as upiddy as some. Didn't overly probe and ask any trap questions. Just was there to make sure I was doing it right. __________________ Only cowards shoot with their eyes closed.... helixgunsmith.com

01-25-2010, 04:26 PM	#6
glocknut Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: THE FORUM MASCOTT... Posts: 12,482	Re: So the ATF stopped by today... Did she pat you on the back? If so...she was probably looking for a soft spot.... gn __________________ Where O where are you tonight? Why have you gone and left me alone? I searched to world over and a thought i found true love... You met another and PTThhh you were gone....

01-25-2010, 05:04 PM	#8
bcj1755 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: A wretched hive of scum and villiany Posts: 4,357	Re: So the ATF stopped by today... Remember, the bigger the smile, the sharper the knife. __________________ History is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace, and revolution continue on forever. Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges - Cicero If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. - Samuel Adams

01-25-2010, 05:12 PM	#9
Ranb Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: WA, USA Posts: 71	Re: So the ATF stopped by today... I was an FFL from 90-94 in the Pearl City Hawaii Navy housing area. While the local Pass and ID office knew about my gun collection, I never told them about the license. I was inspected by the ATF during my first year. I was told there were two compliance inspectors for Hawaii, Guam and American Samoa back then, and I got the nice guy. The "not so nice" guy inspected one of my friends and threatened him with a citation if he did not get a bound book going to record his dispositions as he was doing it the alternate method and with the wrong forms. My inspection lasted about 30 minutes then was followed by 30 minutes of questions and answers. He showed up on a weekday, so he had to ask permission as my business hours were only 8-4 on Sundays. I had one error. I had imported a revolver to Hawaii for my personal collection and did not enter it into the business record book then transfer it to the personal inventory book. He told me I did not have to fix it, but I did anyway. All in all a positive experience. Ranb

01-25-2010, 05:16 PM	#10
Suwannee Tim Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 2,227	Re: So the ATF stopped by today... I am all for law enforcement, even gun law enforcement. I think the BATFE should "show the flag" at gun stores, make sure they are keeping the paper work straight and if they are not, help them unless the gun merchant is committing crimes in which case they should come down on him like a ton of bricks. Law enforcement should focus on criminals. I have heard several stories lately regarding BATFE that were positive. I hope they keep up the good work. Just kidding about the horn and tail. Was she hot? Did you get her number?

01-25-2010, 05:25 PM	#11
glocknut Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: THE FORUM MASCOTT... Posts: 12,482	Re: So the ATF stopped by today... Government agents are ALLWAYS nice leading up to an election where the republicans could win big.... MSHA was only nice when it was close to election time. Gn __________________ Where O where are you tonight? Why have you gone and left me alone? I searched to world over and a thought i found true love... You met another and PTThhh you were gone....

01-25-2010, 05:44 PM	#12
Terry_P Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: NH Posts: 2,513	Re: So the ATF stopped by today... It should be a decent experience for someone that is trying to obey the law. The cwap that went on with Red's just shouldn't happen. We pay their salary so they should act like it. Technical/clerical violations should be pointed out in a constructive manner and corrected on the spot. If someone is clearly breaking the law i.e. illegal sales then thats where the agents should focus their effort. I suspect there isn't enough of that to keep them employed so thats why you get some of the petty nit-****. The bad guys steal their guns or buy them on the street. __________________ NRA and NAHC Life "Both oligarch and tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms." -Aristotle

01-25-2010, 06:06 PM	#14
Helix_FR TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Imperial, MO Posts: 3,617	Re: So the ATF stopped by today... When she called all she wanted to do was make sure everything was in check. May there be ulterior motives behind the visit? Who knows. My experience with her was very positive. And she did state that all they are there to do is make sure that everything was done right and to help if things were done wrong. The previous post about the guy getting in trouble for not having a bound book is his own fault. There are rules and as long as we play the rules we can keep doing what we are doing. My 01 license is not marked as dealer its marked as gunsmith. I don't sell many guns per year if any at all, its mainly parts and 99% of those parts don't require a FFL. Hopefully they don't have much interest in me which I don't think they do. __________________ Only cowards shoot with their eyes closed.... helixgunsmith.com

01-25-2010, 06:20 PM	#17
Helix_FR TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Imperial, MO Posts: 3,617	Re: So the ATF stopped by today... I took and practiced martial arts for about 8 years. Quit b/c I got too busy with my life and got tired of have cracked ribs and a hurt back to the point were I could even hold my own kid. Got tired of that. Even knowing what I know you still get a sense of who you can F with and who your can't. She was on the don't list My wife is 5'4", she took arnis, I watched her bust some heads. Its cool just don't give her a stick or anything that closely resembles one. __________________ Only cowards shoot with their eyes closed.... helixgunsmith.com

01-26-2010, 07:33 AM	#19
UncleFudd Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Phoenix, Az Contributor Posts: 549	Re: So the ATF stopped by today... Pinecone, I am shocked, I tell you, shocked. I would never have believed it.LOL As for the BATF, some of you know that I just sold the range that I built and opened back in 88. I had the feds show up two weeks ago just before everything was finished and pulled their compliance inspection. They were professional and helpful from the outset and in spite of my having 11 violations, they helped us make the corrections and gave us a clean break for the new owners to start with. They did a good chewing for two of the violations and could have pulled my ticket but they didn't and never threatened to do so. All in all, it was professional and helpful all the way and not one time was there any jackboot of the old days. NOW, I can lay back and enjoy the retirement and do my best to keep Obunny out of my bank account and try to keep him and his minions from euthanizing me for old age. That worries me more than the BATF ever did. UF

01-26-2010, 11:17 AM	#20
Double D TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: North Florida Contributor Posts: 8,052	Re: So the ATF stopped by today... I agree with UFudd. There are some not so nice people in that organization but my experience so far has been good. From the first contact when I first applied for my FFL to my first inspection, the people were nice and helpfull. I guess if you are not doing your job then they will be harder to get along with but keep things in order and you shouldnt have many issues. __________________ I own a bunch of scary guns. You want em? Come and take em..... Liberalism is a serious, non curable, mental disorder... NRA LIFE MEMBER Oath Keepers Member NRA Certified Instructor 30 Yr CC permit holder.

01-26-2010, 09:29 PM	#25
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: So the ATF stopped by today... Many, probably most, BATFE agents are just doing their job. They have to enforce a very complex set of laws where there are a lot of ambiguities. Further, the area of law is such that many people who are law-abiding are hostile to law enforcement. As an example, many people on this site, presumably honest and law-abiding, hate BATFE. Yet, how many non-drug dealers/users hate DEA or non-counterfeiters despise the Secret Service? Another BATFE problem is that there are "cowboys" in the Bureau, of the "shoot 'em all" sort. After Waco, there was an honest effort to weed out that type, but they exist in all LE agencies and BATFE is no exception. Then there is the ongoing BATFE-FBI "war" which at times has escalated almost to the shooting stage, as the agencies fought over control of crime scenes and engaged in other "turf wars." I have not been asked to be a BATFE agent (and am not likely to be) but if I ever were, I would take a pass. Jim