Help---- strange 30-06 reloading problem - The Firearms Forum

deerstuffer · 03-28-2010, 03:04 PM

I am new to the reloading hobby. I have reloaded 300 rds of 30-06 under supervision of an experienced loader. When we tried some test fires I got only 30% to discharge, I asked other shooters at the range to try my loads and see what luck they had- result, same rate. Everyone at the range was scratching their heads because all looked good. Many said the primers were not getting indented enough and that I was seating my primers to deep. I fixed 25 rds. and got the same results. Then took gun to two gunsmiths who said gun is good. Then sent reloading dies back to Lee Manf. for test, those turned out perfect. Now have discovered that when I seat bullets deep all is good but if I seat long enough to fit my Model 70 I get the poor discharge rate (not exceeding the recommended OAL measures though) WHY and when I read that bullet seat depth should have nothing to do with discharge. What am I doing wrong!
Thanks deerstuffer

Alpo · 03-28-2010, 04:23 PM

Seating the primers too deep? You've been talking to morons. It is impossible to seat the primers too deep. You put them in as far as they will go.

Usually, failure to fire with reloads is caused by not seating the primers deep enough. If you don't have them all the way into the primer pocket, the firing pin blow will finish seating them. That uses up some of the momentum of the mainspring, and you end up with light-strikes.

I suggest letting your "experienced loader" buddy prime 50 cases or so. That's all, just prime 'em. Then you load 'em the rest of the way. Load 'em the same way as you did your 300 rounds. Same bullet. Same overall length. Same everything. Then go test fire 'em. See if that solves the problem.

deerstuffer · 03-28-2010, 05:11 PM

two gunsmiths told me that. But the problem still is I took 51 cases with primers and discharged all 51 for 100% fireing rate. But when I custome load for my model 70 (take cart with bullet seated very long try to close bolt if hard move bullet deeper until bolt closes easily multiple times then when bolt closes easily seat just a little deeper and it is set) I get 30% discharge rate with very weak prime indents - take bullets to max bullet seat depth from chart and I get good primer dent and 100% discharge Why What am I doing wrong? Thanks!!

Bindernut · 03-28-2010, 05:36 PM

Is this a new set of dies?
Do you have another set of dies you can borrow to test.

I'm wondering if your cases are being resized too short...In effect creating an excessive headspace condition. If this is the case, the firing pin is driving the entire case deeper into the chamber (much like it would drive in a not fully seated primer). With the bullets seated "long", the cartridge is being held back against the bolt face by the bullets contact with the rifling.

How does the rifle perform with factory loaded ammo?
If good, then I would see if either your dies are faulty or if you're just resizing the cases too short (you normally shouldn't be possible to adjust the dies to that extent).
If you get the same light strikes with factory ammo, I would suspect the chamber in your rifle is cut too deep.

Texxut · 03-28-2010, 05:53 PM

1. Are you sizing & reloading used brass?

2. Are you using new, unsized brass?

If your answers are 1-yes 2-no

you could be pushing the shoulder back too far, thereby allowing the cartridge to move too far forward in the chamber. ie: firing pin can't reach the primer. This could explain:

"take bullets to max bullet seat depth from chart and I get good primer dent and 100% discharge..."

Your long seated bullet is contacting the lands and holding the case back against the bolt face. (not really a good situation. you want the bullets close to lands, but not touching)

If your answers are 1-no 2-yes, I haven't got a clue.

Texxut · 03-28-2010, 05:54 PM

Bindernut, you type faster than me. :-)

deerstuffer · 03-28-2010, 05:56 PM

I sent the dies back to Lee Manf. and for just that reason and they did the test and said they are perfect if they are "set up properly" and the gun will shoot factory loads flawlessly but I am still confused why the bullet depth seems to be the problem?

Texxut · 03-28-2010, 06:18 PM

The bullet depth is not the problem. How deep or long you seat the bullet and how it effects the operation of your rifle, is a symptom of the problem.

JLA · 03-28-2010, 07:28 PM

cant believe no one has asked, but can you post some pics of your problems. I mean pics of everything from the loaded rounds that work 100% of time to the ones that fail. pics of the primers seated in the case. shoot from angles so we can see the cartridge like its in our own hands. A loaded round next to a factory round will also help. And a pic of your die set with the stampings visible. be glad to help you out but im having a hard time understanding why youre experiencing malfunctions, you shouldnt be...

deerstuffer · 03-28-2010, 07:57 PM

I'll see what I can do about getting pics tomorrow. Texxut could you tell me more about what you are suspecting about the symptom vs. the cause.

Thanks to all who are willing to talk to me on this problem!!!
deerstuffer

jdon72 · 03-28-2010, 09:08 PM

I would double check the primer seating depth. I like the idea to have your buddy seat just the primers and you load the rest. The primer should be just below flush with the bottom of the brass. It should not be sticking out.

J

JLA · 03-28-2010, 10:05 PM

jdon is correct. .004" below flush to be exact...

carver · 03-28-2010, 10:12 PM

What is the OAL of the rounds you are loading?

jdon72 · 03-28-2010, 10:52 PM

And the c.o.a.l...in other words, post as much as you can about the rounds...the c.o.a.l. (without the bullet) and the O.A.L. ( with the bullet).

J

jdon72 · 03-28-2010, 10:53 PM

What primers are you using? Please state the name and description or number.

J

medalguy · 03-30-2010, 02:11 PM

I would be willing to bet the shoulder is set back too far, and the rounds are falling just a little too deep into the chamber. Two possible solutions for you to consider:

(1) Get a case gauge and check the shoulder set-back. You will likely discover the shoulder is indeed back too far.

(2) Check the firing pin spring and hammer spring to be sure they are strong enough, also not gummed up with an accumulation of grease and oil to make them not have enough power to indent the primer enough. Just an additional thought.

03-28-2010, 03:04 PM	#1
deerstuffer Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 14	Help---- strange 30-06 reloading problem I am new to the reloading hobby. I have reloaded 300 rds of 30-06 under supervision of an experienced loader. When we tried some test fires I got only 30% to discharge, I asked other shooters at the range to try my loads and see what luck they had- result, same rate. Everyone at the range was scratching their heads because all looked good. Many said the primers were not getting indented enough and that I was seating my primers to deep. I fixed 25 rds. and got the same results. Then took gun to two gunsmiths who said gun is good. Then sent reloading dies back to Lee Manf. for test, those turned out perfect. Now have discovered that when I seat bullets deep all is good but if I seat long enough to fit my Model 70 I get the poor discharge rate (not exceeding the recommended OAL measures though) WHY and when I read that bullet seat depth should have nothing to do with discharge. What am I doing wrong! Thanks deerstuffer -->

03-28-2010, 04:23 PM	#2
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,649	Re: Help---- strange 30-06 reloading problem Seating the primers too deep? You've been talking to morons. It is impossible to seat the primers too deep. You put them in as far as they will go. Usually, failure to fire with reloads is caused by not seating the primers deep enough. If you don't have them all the way into the primer pocket, the firing pin blow will finish seating them. That uses up some of the momentum of the mainspring, and you end up with light-strikes. I suggest letting your "experienced loader" buddy prime 50 cases or so. That's all, just prime 'em. Then you load 'em the rest of the way. Load 'em the same way as you did your 300 rounds. Same bullet. Same overall length. Same everything. Then go test fire 'em. See if that solves the problem. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

03-28-2010, 05:11 PM	#3
deerstuffer Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 14	Re: Help---- strange 30-06 reloading problem two gunsmiths told me that. But the problem still is I took 51 cases with primers and discharged all 51 for 100% fireing rate. But when I custome load for my model 70 (take cart with bullet seated very long try to close bolt if hard move bullet deeper until bolt closes easily multiple times then when bolt closes easily seat just a little deeper and it is set) I get 30% discharge rate with very weak prime indents - take bullets to max bullet seat depth from chart and I get good primer dent and 100% discharge Why What am I doing wrong? Thanks!!

03-28-2010, 05:36 PM	#4
Bindernut Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: ND, USA Posts: 2,433	Re: Help---- strange 30-06 reloading problem Is this a new set of dies? Do you have another set of dies you can borrow to test. I'm wondering if your cases are being resized too short...In effect creating an excessive headspace condition. If this is the case, the firing pin is driving the entire case deeper into the chamber (much like it would drive in a not fully seated primer). With the bullets seated "long", the cartridge is being held back against the bolt face by the bullets contact with the rifling. How does the rifle perform with factory loaded ammo? If good, then I would see if either your dies are faulty or if you're just resizing the cases too short (you normally shouldn't be possible to adjust the dies to that extent). If you get the same light strikes with factory ammo, I would suspect the chamber in your rifle is cut too deep.

03-28-2010, 05:53 PM	#5
Texxut V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Utah Posts: 264	Re: Help---- strange 30-06 reloading problem 1. Are you sizing & reloading used brass? 2. Are you using new, unsized brass? If your answers are 1-yes 2-no you could be pushing the shoulder back too far, thereby allowing the cartridge to move too far forward in the chamber. ie: firing pin can't reach the primer. This could explain: "take bullets to max bullet seat depth from chart and I get good primer dent and 100% discharge..." Your long seated bullet is contacting the lands and holding the case back against the bolt face. (not really a good situation. you want the bullets close to lands, but not touching) If your answers are 1-no 2-yes, I haven't got a clue.

03-28-2010, 05:54 PM	#6
Texxut V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Utah Posts: 264	Re: Help---- strange 30-06 reloading problem Bindernut, you type faster than me. :-)

03-28-2010, 05:56 PM	#7
deerstuffer Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 14	Re: Help---- strange 30-06 reloading problem I sent the dies back to Lee Manf. and for just that reason and they did the test and said they are perfect if they are "set up properly" and the gun will shoot factory loads flawlessly but I am still confused why the bullet depth seems to be the problem?

03-28-2010, 06:18 PM	#8
Texxut V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Utah Posts: 264	Re: Help---- strange 30-06 reloading problem The bullet depth is not the problem. How deep or long you seat the bullet and how it effects the operation of your rifle, is a symptom of the problem.

03-28-2010, 07:28 PM	#9
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,305	Re: Help---- strange 30-06 reloading problem cant believe no one has asked, but can you post some pics of your problems. I mean pics of everything from the loaded rounds that work 100% of time to the ones that fail. pics of the primers seated in the case. shoot from angles so we can see the cartridge like its in our own hands. A loaded round next to a factory round will also help. And a pic of your die set with the stampings visible. be glad to help you out but im having a hard time understanding why youre experiencing malfunctions, you shouldnt be... __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

03-28-2010, 07:57 PM	#10
deerstuffer Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 14	Re: Help---- strange 30-06 reloading problem I'll see what I can do about getting pics tomorrow. Texxut could you tell me more about what you are suspecting about the symptom vs. the cause. Thanks to all who are willing to talk to me on this problem!!! deerstuffer

03-28-2010, 09:08 PM	#11
jdon72 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 340	Re: Help---- strange 30-06 reloading problem I would double check the primer seating depth. I like the idea to have your buddy seat just the primers and you load the rest. The primer should be just below flush with the bottom of the brass. It should not be sticking out. J

03-28-2010, 10:05 PM	#12
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,305	Re: Help---- strange 30-06 reloading problem jdon is correct. .004" below flush to be exact... __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

03-28-2010, 10:12 PM	#13
carver TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: DAV, Deep in the Pineywoods of East Texas, just west of Shreveport, LA Contributor Posts: 11,221	Re: Help---- strange 30-06 reloading problem What is the OAL of the rounds you are loading? __________________ Y'all be safe now, ya hear! Lamentations Chapter 5: 1. Remember, O LORD, what is come upon us: consider, and behold our reproach. 2. Our inheritance is turned to strangers, our houses to aliens. 3. We are orphans and fatherless, our mothers [are] as widows. 5. Our necks [are] under persecution: we labour, [and] have no rest. 16. The crown is fallen [from] our head: woe unto us, that we have sinned! 21. Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.

03-28-2010, 10:52 PM	#14
jdon72 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 340	Re: Help---- strange 30-06 reloading problem And the c.o.a.l...in other words, post as much as you can about the rounds...the c.o.a.l. (without the bullet) and the O.A.L. ( with the bullet). J

03-28-2010, 10:53 PM	#15
jdon72 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 340	Re: Help---- strange 30-06 reloading problem What primers are you using? Please state the name and description or number. J

03-30-2010, 02:11 PM	#16
medalguy Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 585	Re: Help---- strange 30-06 reloading problem I would be willing to bet the shoulder is set back too far, and the rounds are falling just a little too deep into the chamber. Two possible solutions for you to consider: (1) Get a case gauge and check the shoulder set-back. You will likely discover the shoulder is indeed back too far. (2) Check the firing pin spring and hammer spring to be sure they are strong enough, also not gummed up with an accumulation of grease and oil to make them not have enough power to indent the primer enough. Just an additional thought.