Please, a little advice from the wise -AR15 - The Firearms Forum

MTNRNR3 · 08-09-2009, 02:36 PM

Archived

Helix_FR · 08-09-2009, 03:21 PM

hate to bring your wishes down on this one but #2 is hard to achieve with a 16in barrel. Also the 223/556 at 500yds will not have a whole lot of punch and the slightest breeze will toss it. The AR15 platform is wonderful and one of the easiest to customize but it also is one of the most sensitive to the outside elements. You must keep them clean to function properly and nasty outside elements like the ones that your wanting to expose it to you will have to keep on top of it. The type of lubricant you use must be chosen wisely. Sand will contaminate many lubes out there and other lubes will harden in sub 0. Though I'm not knocking the AR15 you may want to look to something else, a longer barrel or a larger caliber.

Airdale · 08-09-2009, 06:17 PM

I'm not an expert but the first place I would go would be Barretts. Top quality and reliable rifles and a reputation nobody will challange. An AR platform but in 6.8 spc and MIL SPEC. Good for medium size game.

http://barrettrifles.com/rifle_rec7.aspx

This one could be over kill and too heavy (11 lbs without accessories) but if I wanted to reach out to 400yds and beyound I would own this:

http://www.98bravo.com/

MTNRNR3 · 08-09-2009, 06:19 PM

Archived

azsigman · 08-09-2009, 06:47 PM

#1 & #3...................AK-74 for 5.56. Personally, I like the AK-47, 7.62 x 39. For all the conditions you describe, the AK will just keep on shooting. Not an AR but, mud, dirt, dust, water.....pull the trigger, it goes bang. Accuracy...not even in the same ballpark, usually.

Airdale · 08-09-2009, 06:53 PM

I think you might want to see this about the Barrett REC7. It meets your needs plus!

Watch the video in this article. The Barrett will be as reliable as any AK!

http://www.futurefirepower.com/barre...-assault-rifle

azsigman · 08-09-2009, 08:07 PM

Hope you have $4000.00. Beautiful rifle but DAMN...big bucks. At least for me....................

JLA · 08-09-2009, 08:45 PM

I fear the animals you will be engaging at 500yds are a bit robust for the 5.56. Dont get me wrong, I shoot deer with the 5.56 from an AR but the shot is never further than 200 yds and I use the best bullets on the market for hunting. Elk on the other hand will need .30 caliber power or at the very least, a well placed 7mm or .270 to bring it down at that range. I dont believe the 5.56 will do it short of a shot through the eye. The 5.56 is a wonderful round capable of fine accuracy, I shoot a DPMS Lo Pro Classic W/ 16" bull BBL and full length free float tube. I use a Burris 3-9X40 mm tube with ballistic plex and the scope sits in a Burris P.E.P.R. mount. Its a very rigid platform and will shoot sub-MOA groups. I think you would be much better off with a national match M1A or at the very least a good AR-10 with a heavy barrel. Your killing requirement are pushing beyond the limits of a .223. IMHO...

TOOHSOTKIL · 08-09-2009, 08:57 PM

You are looking at the wrong platform then, good luck in your quest.

cycloneman · 08-10-2009, 06:49 AM

You really do need 2 guns for what you want. I shoot speed goats up to 500 yrds. I dont go past 500 yrds because thats what the guys at Hornady told me to stay with in. I shoot a 308 with a 165 gr bullet. Sure you can punch paper with it at 1000yrds but it really slows down after the first 500. I have seen a guy try to shoot a goat at a pretty good distance. It was very windy and all he did was waste ammo. It was so windy the animals could not hear the shot and just stood there. Shot after shot and nothing.

Oldeyes · 08-10-2009, 09:02 AM

I have used both the internal raw gas dump into the bolt system M-16's and AR-15's, as well as a number of the the external gas piston style of AR's. Candidly, I prefer the external AK-47 like gas piston design because it has numerous advantages including lower maintenance, fewer critical moving parts, less (and much easier to clean) carbon accumulation in the gas system, less receiver heat and overall a much higher MTBF reliability. Additionally, many of the new gas piston AR systems are adjustable to match varying cartridge loads and shooting conditions. If the external piston gas system does start to gum up just a bit after a LOT of QUITE intense usage, just open the gas port up to the next higher position and keep going.

Even tho the US military considers some of the heavier bullet 5.56 mm rounds to be accurate 600 yard cartridges for military and target applications, I agree with all of the other posters that it is not a good choice for nice and clean game hunting kills at those extended ranges. The .308 would be the bare minimum cartridge that I would recommend for that 500 yard range and even so, it might be an iffy recommendation for a consistent one shot clean kill. 500 yards is a pretty long clean kill hunting shot requiring numerous well honed shooting skills and residual ft.-lbs. of energy.

To my knowledge, the only M-16/AR-15 form factor type of gas piston operated rifle chambered in 7.62X51 mm is the new FN SCAR design (full auto military and LE only) MK 17 CQC 7.62X51 mm NATO. However, given the ever increasing popularity of 7.62X51 mm chamberings in AR-15 pattern rifles I suspect that it is only a matter of time before you see an AR-15 semi automatic only version with a gas piston operating system. Many of the current crop of (Armalite, DPMS, etc.) free floated heavy barrel 7.62X51 AR-15 pattern rifles are doing 1 MOA or better groups, so I would expect at least that same level of accuracy out of a high quality gas piston operated unit.

My current recommendation to you assuming adequate financial resources would be to get a good gas piston style AR-15 like the Sig Sauer unit with a 1 in 7 twist for the vast majority of your SHTF and other interim needs. Then, wait for a suitable 7.62X51 mm AR-15 pattern gas piston operated rifle to hit the streets and pick up one of those for your extended range applications.

MTNRNR3 · 08-10-2009, 11:37 PM

Archived

JLA · 08-11-2009, 10:01 PM

Welcome to the mayhem brother

GunHugger · 08-13-2009, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helix_FR

hate to bring your wishes down on this one but #2 is hard to achieve with a 16in barrel. Also the 223/556 at 500yds will not have a whole lot of punch and the slightest breeze will toss it. The AR15 platform is wonderful and one of the easiest to customize but it also is one of the most sensitive to the outside elements. You must keep them clean to function properly and nasty outside elements like the ones that your wanting to expose it to you will have to keep on top of it. The type of lubricant you use must be chosen wisely. Sand will contaminate many lubes out there and other lubes will harden in sub 0. Though I'm not knocking the AR15 you may want to look to something else, a longer barrel or a larger caliber.

Really???

5880 rounds without cleaning, only clp added twice at random times. Not one problem.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.htm...f=118&t=454616

JLA · 08-13-2009, 09:28 PM

Your proof of reliability is much better than mine GunHugger... I have never had a problem with a properly fit and adjusted AR. IMHO, they are just as, if not more reliable than an AK...

and a helluva lot more accurate too...

08-09-2009, 06:19 PM	#4
MTNRNR3 Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3	Re: Please, a little advice from the wise -AR15 Archived Last edited by MTNRNR3; 03-25-2012 at 02:56 PM..

08-09-2009, 06:47 PM	#5
azsigman V.I.P. Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Flagstaff, Arizona Posts: 320	Re: Please, a little advice from the wise -AR15 #1 & #3...................AK-74 for 5.56. Personally, I like the AK-47, 7.62 x 39. For all the conditions you describe, the AK will just keep on shooting. Not an AR but, mud, dirt, dust, water.....pull the trigger, it goes bang. Accuracy...not even in the same ballpark, usually. __________________ If in doubt........don't NRA Life, GOA, 2AF

08-09-2009, 06:53 PM	#6
Airdale Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: N.W. Arkansas Contributor Posts: 750	Re: Please, a little advice from the wise -AR15 I think you might want to see this about the Barrett REC7. It meets your needs plus! Watch the video in this article. The Barrett will be as reliable as any AK! http://www.futurefirepower.com/barre...-assault-rifle

08-09-2009, 08:07 PM	#7
azsigman V.I.P. Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Flagstaff, Arizona Posts: 320	Re: Please, a little advice from the wise -AR15 Hope you have $4000.00. Beautiful rifle but DAMN...big bucks. At least for me.................... __________________ If in doubt........don't NRA Life, GOA, 2AF

08-09-2009, 08:45 PM	#8
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,317	Re: Please, a little advice from the wise -AR15 I fear the animals you will be engaging at 500yds are a bit robust for the 5.56. Dont get me wrong, I shoot deer with the 5.56 from an AR but the shot is never further than 200 yds and I use the best bullets on the market for hunting. Elk on the other hand will need .30 caliber power or at the very least, a well placed 7mm or .270 to bring it down at that range. I dont believe the 5.56 will do it short of a shot through the eye. The 5.56 is a wonderful round capable of fine accuracy, I shoot a DPMS Lo Pro Classic W/ 16" bull BBL and full length free float tube. I use a Burris 3-9X40 mm tube with ballistic plex and the scope sits in a Burris P.E.P.R. mount. Its a very rigid platform and will shoot sub-MOA groups. I think you would be much better off with a national match M1A or at the very least a good AR-10 with a heavy barrel. Your killing requirement are pushing beyond the limits of a .223. IMHO... __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

08-09-2009, 02:36 PM	#1
MTNRNR3 Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3	Please, a little advice from the wise -AR15 Archived --> Last edited by MTNRNR3; 03-25-2012 at 02:56 PM..

08-09-2009, 03:21 PM	#2
Helix_FR TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Imperial, MO Posts: 3,624	Re: Please, a little advice from the wise -AR15 hate to bring your wishes down on this one but #2 is hard to achieve with a 16in barrel. Also the 223/556 at 500yds will not have a whole lot of punch and the slightest breeze will toss it. The AR15 platform is wonderful and one of the easiest to customize but it also is one of the most sensitive to the outside elements. You must keep them clean to function properly and nasty outside elements like the ones that your wanting to expose it to you will have to keep on top of it. The type of lubricant you use must be chosen wisely. Sand will contaminate many lubes out there and other lubes will harden in sub 0. Though I'm not knocking the AR15 you may want to look to something else, a longer barrel or a larger caliber. Last edited by Helix_FR; 08-09-2009 at 03:22 PM..

08-09-2009, 06:17 PM	#3
Airdale Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: N.W. Arkansas Contributor Posts: 750	Re: Please, a little advice from the wise -AR15 I'm not an expert but the first place I would go would be Barretts. Top quality and reliable rifles and a reputation nobody will challange. An AR platform but in 6.8 spc and MIL SPEC. Good for medium size game. http://barrettrifles.com/rifle_rec7.aspx This one could be over kill and too heavy (11 lbs without accessories) but if I wanted to reach out to 400yds and beyound I would own this: http://www.98bravo.com/

08-09-2009, 08:57 PM	#9
TOOHSOTKIL V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Curracus Posts: 318	Re: Please, a little advice from the wise -AR15 You are looking at the wrong platform then, good luck in your quest.

08-10-2009, 06:49 AM	#10
cycloneman Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Louisiana Posts: 7,404	Re: Please, a little advice from the wise -AR15 You really do need 2 guns for what you want. I shoot speed goats up to 500 yrds. I dont go past 500 yrds because thats what the guys at Hornady told me to stay with in. I shoot a 308 with a 165 gr bullet. Sure you can punch paper with it at 1000yrds but it really slows down after the first 500. I have seen a guy try to shoot a goat at a pretty good distance. It was very windy and all he did was waste ammo. It was so windy the animals could not hear the shot and just stood there. Shot after shot and nothing. __________________ Who are you going to serve today?

08-10-2009, 09:02 AM	#11
Oldeyes V.I.P. Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 218	Re: Please, a little advice from the wise -AR15 I have used both the internal raw gas dump into the bolt system M-16's and AR-15's, as well as a number of the the external gas piston style of AR's. Candidly, I prefer the external AK-47 like gas piston design because it has numerous advantages including lower maintenance, fewer critical moving parts, less (and much easier to clean) carbon accumulation in the gas system, less receiver heat and overall a much higher MTBF reliability. Additionally, many of the new gas piston AR systems are adjustable to match varying cartridge loads and shooting conditions. If the external piston gas system does start to gum up just a bit after a LOT of QUITE intense usage, just open the gas port up to the next higher position and keep going. Even tho the US military considers some of the heavier bullet 5.56 mm rounds to be accurate 600 yard cartridges for military and target applications, I agree with all of the other posters that it is not a good choice for nice and clean game hunting kills at those extended ranges. The .308 would be the bare minimum cartridge that I would recommend for that 500 yard range and even so, it might be an iffy recommendation for a consistent one shot clean kill. 500 yards is a pretty long clean kill hunting shot requiring numerous well honed shooting skills and residual ft.-lbs. of energy. To my knowledge, the only M-16/AR-15 form factor type of gas piston operated rifle chambered in 7.62X51 mm is the new FN SCAR design (full auto military and LE only) MK 17 CQC 7.62X51 mm NATO. However, given the ever increasing popularity of 7.62X51 mm chamberings in AR-15 pattern rifles I suspect that it is only a matter of time before you see an AR-15 semi automatic only version with a gas piston operating system. Many of the current crop of (Armalite, DPMS, etc.) free floated heavy barrel 7.62X51 AR-15 pattern rifles are doing 1 MOA or better groups, so I would expect at least that same level of accuracy out of a high quality gas piston operated unit. My current recommendation to you assuming adequate financial resources would be to get a good gas piston style AR-15 like the Sig Sauer unit with a 1 in 7 twist for the vast majority of your SHTF and other interim needs. Then, wait for a suitable 7.62X51 mm AR-15 pattern gas piston operated rifle to hit the streets and pick up one of those for your extended range applications.

08-10-2009, 11:37 PM	#12
MTNRNR3 Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3	Re: Please, a little advice from the wise -AR15 Archived Last edited by MTNRNR3; 03-25-2012 at 02:56 PM..

08-11-2009, 10:01 PM	#13
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,317	Re: Please, a little advice from the wise -AR15 Welcome to the mayhem brother __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

08-13-2009, 09:28 PM	#15
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,317	Re: Please, a little advice from the wise -AR15 Your proof of reliability is much better than mine GunHugger... I have never had a problem with a properly fit and adjusted AR. IMHO, they are just as, if not more reliable than an AK... and a helluva lot more accurate too... __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!