Chronograph Recommendation - Page 2 - The Firearms Forum

Bigr Bang Thry · 02-23-2012, 05:58 PM

I recommend getting the longest base available. I think they offer a four foot and an eight foot base or rail- whatever they call it. You will probably want to support the rail from both ends. Looking at your shooting bench, i think it would be feesable to put in a couple of permanent support posts- that way, the distance from the barrel is always the same, and the unit wouldn't be affected by wind. That would simplify setup, as well. When you get the unit, I'm sure that it will come with a book full of optional products. The ced that I have is excellent, even though it's several years old now. I really love it. ....Alaska ?? Maybe I'll come visit you some day ...

BlackEagle · 02-23-2012, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zhurh

Ordered that CED from Midway yesterday. Only got the base unit for $199, will look around for tripod as the $44 one they sell at Midway is a cheap one too. CED makes a heavy duty tripod for $88.

I only shoot from April through September, when it's sunny and ain't raining; not once there's 5 foot of snow on the ground. I really needed a chrono for my backporch bench. What else should I look at ordering for this unit?

Very nice back yard and bench.

I modified my CED...it kept blowing over and broke a tripod so now I can set it directly on a bench, or use a tripod.

I think I'll have to put some felt tip marker on the bullets because it doesn't always see them--keeps giving errors. It worked OK with my .357 reloads and .22, but that was a different day and lighting conditions.

I have considered the Infrared light attachment, but I'm not that desperate yet.

Zhurh · 02-23-2012, 10:33 PM

Big Bang, I've never used a chrono, haven't been to public gun range in near 25 years; they'd probably throw me out for doing something unsafe or worse, ha ha. So, I don't know a thing about chronos. From what I have read, one must place the V's away from bench so barrel blast don't affect it. I'm mostly shooting my 30-378 and then a 7 mag, 270,6.8, 338 fed, 338 win mag, 45-70, and couple 556's. The 30-378 has some shock power I think. So do I set the V's up like 10 or 15 yards away from bench? What is sufficient? I could sink in some 4X4's and then build a base for the V's; heck I call them V's; they probably have a real name but I don't know what it is, ha. I'll just set some posts in the wifey's iceberg patch; she should like that. How far away from bench do I want the V's?

We came from north western pa, use to spend time at chattagua riding snowmachines & ice fishing. Every winter, would go ice fishing up Simcoe, catch some junior games around Toronto. Every summer, would haul lund up Shining Tree in Ontario, motor up chain of lakes 100 miles. I came up creek into mouth of lake, here was this guy with red brick house on shoreline; lived there year around, hauled fuel in over ice road on creeks, ha. Got me thinking, about living remote; moved to Alaska the following summer; ain't ever looked back. I'd feel like I was in a prison camp or sanitarium, ha if I had to live back east ever again; not to mention all the shootin I get here in ALaska.

Zhurh · 02-23-2012, 11:02 PM

BlackEagle, Thanks for the picts, makes more sense now. Let me ask ya this? Do people set the V's up to use while shooting at 100 yard targets or is that how ya just end up buying new V's? I guess most shooters just want to find out how fast their loads are going and don't even bother doing two things at the same time. My porch is about 4 foot above the ground level, but target is level on 4-8 ply at 100 yards. Maybe I should set some posts in to the right of my line of sight between bench & plywood at 100 yards, then could see my bullet velocity separately. What do you all do?

When I'm all done putting posts in, I'm going to get some 2 inch wide, 1/2 inch strips and weld a steel frame around the V on bench side. I'll just tell the local Indians that I did that just especially for them, ha.

I kinda got into reloading 2 years back, still learning & trying to improve my long range shooting. I have some guns that are 1/2 at 100 yards others not, and others yet that after 5-6 shots get real wild. I haven't been able to make an average gun a 1/2 inch gun by reloading yet, maybe something that just never happens. So, I'm watching all those David Tubbs dvds and buying all the gadgets that are suppose to make your ammo more repeatable. Time will tell. Let Big "O" tax supplies to death, my grandkids won't be wanting for ammo to go kill some caribou & moose. That's one good thing about reloading, I know got supplies for three lifetimes, a good thing actually. Hey thanks again for the picts, to think I was going to use a cheap tripod I had downstairs.

Bindernut · 02-24-2012, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zhurh

BlackEagle, Thanks for the picts, makes more sense now. Let me ask ya this? Do people set the V's up to use while shooting at 100 yard targets or is that how ya just end up buying new V's? I guess most shooters just want to find out how fast their loads are going and don't even bother doing two things at the same time.

I set up my chronograph so that I'm shooting groups and recording velocities at the same time.
I like to record every shot so I can see if the velocity is consistent. If I see a flyer in a group and the velocity for that shot is off compared to the rest of the string then I know I either fudged the charge a bit. Or if there are quite a few of those "off" rounds then that powder or charge weight might not be quite right for that particular rifle.

And yeah, it takes a bit of adjusting to find where to set up the chrony.
You'll have it easier though since you've got a fixed bench to shoot from.
Unless I'm down at the farm where I have my own bench set up, I have to use the public range and each bench there is a little different so I need to tweak my tripod height/position every time I set up at the range.

I use a cheap Targus brand camera tripod from WalMart ($30 or so if I remember right). Same tripod that I use for my cameras too so it gets double-duty. On this tripod, it has a hook on the bottom that you can hang a weighted bag from to help anchor the tripod. I've got a 2lb sandbag that I use as an anchor. Never have a problem with the wind blowing the tripod over with either a camera or my Shootin Chrony set up on it.

For those magnums you've got with a healthy muzzle-blast, I would set up your sky-screens (Vs) at least 20' from the muzzle. I need to set up a minimum of 15' with a .264 or 7mm Mag.

BlackEagle · 02-24-2012, 06:06 PM

I chose the CED because it's "modular", so if (when?) I shoot the chrony I only have to replace the parts that get damaged. I don't have extensive experience using chronographs, but I'm happy to tell you what little I've found out.

At the base of each sky screen is an electric eye that sees the shadow of the bullet. The one closest to you is the "start" signal, the other is the "stop" signal. The shadow of the bullet passing over the first eye starts the timer and passing over the second stops the timer. The distance between the two electric eyes divided by the time is the speed.

If one of the sensors doesn't see the bullet you get an error message on the readout screen. So far as I can tell this can be caused by poor or inconsistant lighting conditions, or muzzle blast inteference. I think part of my problem has also been the sun was too low, throwing the shadow off the sensors. Maybe wind making the chronograph move is also a factor.

The manual says to place the chronograph about 7-10 ft away from the muzzle to eliminate muzzle blast inteferance. The wires connecting the chronograph to the contoller are about 20 ft. long.

The sensors can be separated by 2 ft, or 4, 6 or 8 ft.
I tend to see if I can get a decent group, then check for speed; concentrate on just not hitting the chrony, and if I can, as Bindernut suggests, check fliers against speed.

From watching some of the others in the club, I have noticed some guns just don't shoot tight groups. My .223 with 1:9 twist heavy barrel will knock the center out of the target at 100 yards on a regular basis, 1/2" groups of 10 using my reloads. Others in the club are happy to get a 2 or 3 inch group at 100 yards with their sporting rifles. The M-16/AR15 is usually a lot more precise/tighter group than an AK47.

As a barrel warms up it often affects precision, but there are lots of others on the forum who know more about those things than I do.

I suggest getting a couple of extra 9 volt batteries to power the unit.

The unit comes with software and you can download via usb directly from the unit to your computer, and then export the data to an Excel spreadsheet. I haven't tried it with an Openoffice spreadsheet or other spreadsheet.

I got a cheap tripod from ebay, or I can use a bench at the range, depending on the wind.

Here's a link to the owner's manual .pdf:
http://www.shootingsoftware.com/ftp/CED%20Manual.pdf

Zhurh · 02-25-2012, 11:11 AM

Thanks to all, I'll probably get that CED end of nx week if we get mail plane with predicted snow. I really won't start shooting until April anyway. It's still around zero, nice for cutting/hauling nx winters birch in with snowmachine, but I'll wait till it's above freezing to start shooting off that porch bench. I'm reloading some tonight; keep working on the 30-378 for nx fall's hunting.

BlackEagle · 02-26-2012, 12:55 PM

Got the chronograph out and got some numbers. It's picky about light and being set up straight. I got some error messages; it could have been due to wind shaking the whole thing, or it could have been not quite straight on to the trajectory. I tried marking the heads black and the first of those worked OK, then I got error messages. The chronogaph was a little squint to the trajectory. Straightened the chronograph and got some more numbers, and then some errors. The wind was shaking the chronograph some but it was still straight with the trajectory. I tried some unmarked bullets and got results for those as well. Here's the setup at the range...

Now to digest the numbers. I can work out trajectories better now.

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02-23-2012, 05:58 PM	#26
Bigr Bang Thry V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Western New York Posts: 186	Re: Chronograph Recommendation I recommend getting the longest base available. I think they offer a four foot and an eight foot base or rail- whatever they call it. You will probably want to support the rail from both ends. Looking at your shooting bench, i think it would be feesable to put in a couple of permanent support posts- that way, the distance from the barrel is always the same, and the unit wouldn't be affected by wind. That would simplify setup, as well. When you get the unit, I'm sure that it will come with a book full of optional products. The ced that I have is excellent, even though it's several years old now. I really love it. ....Alaska ?? Maybe I'll come visit you some day ...

02-23-2012, 10:33 PM	#28
Zhurh Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Upper Yukon, Alaska Posts: 1,807	Re: Chronograph Recommendation Big Bang, I've never used a chrono, haven't been to public gun range in near 25 years; they'd probably throw me out for doing something unsafe or worse, ha ha. So, I don't know a thing about chronos. From what I have read, one must place the V's away from bench so barrel blast don't affect it. I'm mostly shooting my 30-378 and then a 7 mag, 270,6.8, 338 fed, 338 win mag, 45-70, and couple 556's. The 30-378 has some shock power I think. So do I set the V's up like 10 or 15 yards away from bench? What is sufficient? I could sink in some 4X4's and then build a base for the V's; heck I call them V's; they probably have a real name but I don't know what it is, ha. I'll just set some posts in the wifey's iceberg patch; she should like that. How far away from bench do I want the V's? We came from north western pa, use to spend time at chattagua riding snowmachines & ice fishing. Every winter, would go ice fishing up Simcoe, catch some junior games around Toronto. Every summer, would haul lund up Shining Tree in Ontario, motor up chain of lakes 100 miles. I came up creek into mouth of lake, here was this guy with red brick house on shoreline; lived there year around, hauled fuel in over ice road on creeks, ha. Got me thinking, about living remote; moved to Alaska the following summer; ain't ever looked back. I'd feel like I was in a prison camp or sanitarium, ha if I had to live back east ever again; not to mention all the shootin I get here in ALaska.

02-23-2012, 11:02 PM	#29
Zhurh Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Upper Yukon, Alaska Posts: 1,807	Re: Chronograph Recommendation BlackEagle, Thanks for the picts, makes more sense now. Let me ask ya this? Do people set the V's up to use while shooting at 100 yard targets or is that how ya just end up buying new V's? I guess most shooters just want to find out how fast their loads are going and don't even bother doing two things at the same time. My porch is about 4 foot above the ground level, but target is level on 4-8 ply at 100 yards. Maybe I should set some posts in to the right of my line of sight between bench & plywood at 100 yards, then could see my bullet velocity separately. What do you all do? When I'm all done putting posts in, I'm going to get some 2 inch wide, 1/2 inch strips and weld a steel frame around the V on bench side. I'll just tell the local Indians that I did that just especially for them, ha. I kinda got into reloading 2 years back, still learning & trying to improve my long range shooting. I have some guns that are 1/2 at 100 yards others not, and others yet that after 5-6 shots get real wild. I haven't been able to make an average gun a 1/2 inch gun by reloading yet, maybe something that just never happens. So, I'm watching all those David Tubbs dvds and buying all the gadgets that are suppose to make your ammo more repeatable. Time will tell. Let Big "O" tax supplies to death, my grandkids won't be wanting for ammo to go kill some caribou & moose. That's one good thing about reloading, I know got supplies for three lifetimes, a good thing actually. Hey thanks again for the picts, to think I was going to use a cheap tripod I had downstairs.

02-24-2012, 06:06 PM	#31
BlackEagle Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: UK Posts: 3,154	Re: Chronograph Recommendation I chose the CED because it's "modular", so if (when?) I shoot the chrony I only have to replace the parts that get damaged. I don't have extensive experience using chronographs, but I'm happy to tell you what little I've found out. At the base of each sky screen is an electric eye that sees the shadow of the bullet. The one closest to you is the "start" signal, the other is the "stop" signal. The shadow of the bullet passing over the first eye starts the timer and passing over the second stops the timer. The distance between the two electric eyes divided by the time is the speed. If one of the sensors doesn't see the bullet you get an error message on the readout screen. So far as I can tell this can be caused by poor or inconsistant lighting conditions, or muzzle blast inteference. I think part of my problem has also been the sun was too low, throwing the shadow off the sensors. Maybe wind making the chronograph move is also a factor. The manual says to place the chronograph about 7-10 ft away from the muzzle to eliminate muzzle blast inteferance. The wires connecting the chronograph to the contoller are about 20 ft. long. The sensors can be separated by 2 ft, or 4, 6 or 8 ft. I tend to see if I can get a decent group, then check for speed; concentrate on just not hitting the chrony, and if I can, as Bindernut suggests, check fliers against speed. From watching some of the others in the club, I have noticed some guns just don't shoot tight groups. My .223 with 1:9 twist heavy barrel will knock the center out of the target at 100 yards on a regular basis, 1/2" groups of 10 using my reloads. Others in the club are happy to get a 2 or 3 inch group at 100 yards with their sporting rifles. The M-16/AR15 is usually a lot more precise/tighter group than an AK47. As a barrel warms up it often affects precision, but there are lots of others on the forum who know more about those things than I do. I suggest getting a couple of extra 9 volt batteries to power the unit. The unit comes with software and you can download via usb directly from the unit to your computer, and then export the data to an Excel spreadsheet. I haven't tried it with an Openoffice spreadsheet or other spreadsheet. I got a cheap tripod from ebay, or I can use a bench at the range, depending on the wind. Here's a link to the owner's manual .pdf: http://www.shootingsoftware.com/ftp/CED%20Manual.pdf

02-25-2012, 11:11 AM	#32
Zhurh Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Upper Yukon, Alaska Posts: 1,807	Re: Chronograph Recommendation Thanks to all, I'll probably get that CED end of nx week if we get mail plane with predicted snow. I really won't start shooting until April anyway. It's still around zero, nice for cutting/hauling nx winters birch in with snowmachine, but I'll wait till it's above freezing to start shooting off that porch bench. I'm reloading some tonight; keep working on the 30-378 for nx fall's hunting.

02-26-2012, 12:55 PM	#33
BlackEagle Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: UK Posts: 3,154	Re: Chronograph Recommendation Got the chronograph out and got some numbers. It's picky about light and being set up straight. I got some error messages; it could have been due to wind shaking the whole thing, or it could have been not quite straight on to the trajectory. I tried marking the heads black and the first of those worked OK, then I got error messages. The chronogaph was a little squint to the trajectory. Straightened the chronograph and got some more numbers, and then some errors. The wind was shaking the chronograph some but it was still straight with the trajectory. I tried some unmarked bullets and got results for those as well. Here's the setup at the range... Now to digest the numbers. I can work out trajectories better now.