Argentine 1911 - The Firearms Forum

Munch · 03-02-2012, 07:31 PM

Years ago I had an Argentine replica of the 1911 and I have been beating myself up since letting it go to pay bills. I would love to find another of these as I have very fond memories of it, it never gave me a single problem, and most importantly, I just want it. Does anyone know if these are sold anywhere? Any help will be very appreciated.

Alpo · 03-02-2012, 08:40 PM

I think you're pretty much SOL. Years ago there were a bunch of 'em come in - both Sistema and Ballester Molina. But I have not heard of any coming in lately. You're only chance, as I see it, is to haunt the auction boards and hope one shows up.

H-D · 03-02-2012, 09:02 PM

I saw a few on the big auction sites a while back

Lanrezac · 03-02-2012, 09:37 PM

Both types of the Argentine 45 automatics - the Colt 1911 clones by DGFM, and the simplified version by Ballester-Molina - are readily available on gun-sales and gun-auction websites, and I usually see more than one at the few gun shows I get to.

The only thing is, since there are no more coming in, prices are going up. People do not hesitate to ask a lot for them, so you have to shop around. Also, they have been in the US long enough for people to have worked on them...with greater or lesser amounts of skill. You can find one OK, you just need to be careful, and decide how much you want to spend. HTH!

Munch · 03-03-2012, 01:21 PM

Thank you all for your insight! I did as all of you suggested and looked on some of the auction site very quickly, and wow, y'all weren't kidding about the prices hitting the roof. If i remember correctly I paid $200.00. Granted, this was nearly 20 years ago. Most I saw just now in decent shape were around 6 to 8 hundred. I will check at the gun show, and on your suggestions, keep an eye on the auctions. Thanks very much for your help!

RunningOnMT · 03-03-2012, 02:49 PM

I believe American Classic 1911's are made in Argentina. At least I know they are made by Bersa which is an Argentine company. Buds has them and at a pretty good price by todays standards.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...ducts_id/49735

Oldeyes · 03-03-2012, 03:24 PM

Years ago I did some tune up gun smithing on a couple of Argentine 1911 Colt pattern pistols. I found them to be quite worthy exact copies of the originals, with the exception that all of the steel in them was harder than the hinges of hell. They could be accuracy tuned quite nicely. However, working on those pistols just absolutely ate good files. When I inquired about the degree of metal hardness that I had found I was told that rumor was that the source metal was salvaged from the armor plate of a sunken WWI German battleship. Based upon my experience, I believe it. Anyway, if I was today looking for a good quality moderately priced forged 1911 pattern pistol, I would probably look at some of the used basic GI model Springfield 1911's that are out there. In this area those models often show up used in good condition at quite reasonable prices.

limbkiller · 03-03-2012, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunningOnMT

I believe American Classic 1911's are made in Argentina. At least I know they are made by Bersa which is an Argentine company. Buds has them and at a pretty good price by todays standards.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...ducts_id/49735

ACIIs are made in the Philipines by Metro Arms and imported by Bersa.

Munch · 03-03-2012, 03:49 PM

That Bersa American Classic looks like a viable option for me. Thats about what I'm looking to spend, I have owned several Bersa handguns in .22 and .380 and found them to be well built, reliable and as accurate as one would expect from a small frame handgun. Thanks for the tip! I hadn't known about Buds until now.

Munch · 03-03-2012, 03:56 PM

Thats an interesting little piece of information about the steel Oldeyes. If I should happen to find another in the future I'll keep that in mind should I ever need to get in and do any tuning or tweaking. Any question I've ever asked of the members at this forum has been answered quickly and the information within has been priceless. This is my favorite place on the internet! Thank you all!!

RunningOnMT · 03-03-2012, 04:40 PM

Munch, After I posted that link I went back to Buds site and was looking at all of the 1911's under the Bersa name. On a customer review of one of these models , a person made reference to it being made in the Philippines, so maybe although Bersa is an Argentine company, they are importing their 1911's from a Philippine company. That wouldn't be unusual as there seems to be a lot of 1911's made in P.I. being sold under different name brands. Personally that wouldn't be a problem because I love my Philippine made RIA 1911, but if you specifically want one made in Argentina, this might not be for you.

Inthewind1976 · 03-03-2012, 05:01 PM

The Argentine 1911's, NOT the two Ballester's, but the true 1911's are made on Colt machinery and jigs, and are essentially a COLT 1911, in its truest form. They are excellent pistols and were an incredible bargain when they were readily available for under $200 a few years ago. Like all "good things" however, they have dried up (there werent millions of em built to begin with) and the prices are going up considerably. They are now beginning to demand some "collector premium" in addition to the fact that ANY true 1911 format pistol is much more expensive than it was a few years ago. The Ballester's were a simplified semiautomatic pistol designed by/for the Argentine military and police, to supplement/replace the earlier exact Colt copies, and while they are decent, well made pistols, they are NOT a '1911' by any standards. They are mechanically different internally, and the only part that swaps are magazines. The prices are going up for Ballisters these days too - the sub-$200 specials we saw a few years ago are long gone. The same is true with many of the fine automatics made by Star in Spain. They are 1911 PATTERN pistols, like the Ballester, but are so only in appearance, not mechanics. So far, many of the fine Star's are still available at a pretty decent price, but their days are numbered as well, because there arent millions of em out there either, and they are not current production arms. Good luck in your search, and if the one you had in the past was a "true" 1911, versus the Ballester, you may wish to consider one of the Philipine current productions ones (like the Rock Island) because they, too, arent going to get any "cheaper" and curretly are available right around $400 give or take a buck. Good luck.

ignats · 03-03-2012, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldeyes

Y had found I was told that rumor was that the source metal was salvaged from the armor plate of a sunken WWI German battleship. Based upon my experience, I believe it. .

That isn't true. Some steel was salvaged from the Graf Spee, which was scuttled just outside of Montevideo in about 36 feet of water. Some salvage work began during 1942 but mostly to remove what was considered a hazard of navigation. Some of that steel was used by HAFDASA to manufacture engine parts. Argentina imported most of their weapons from the U.S. and Germany up until the end of WWII. Production of Ballester Molinas actually began during WWII. The steel was imported from England and some where between 8000 to 10000 thousand of the them went to England others went to the Argentine military. Production ran from 1938 to 1953 totaling just under 110,000 pistols.

03-02-2012, 07:31 PM	#1
Munch V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Puyallup, WA. Posts: 317	Argentine 1911 Years ago I had an Argentine replica of the 1911 and I have been beating myself up since letting it go to pay bills. I would love to find another of these as I have very fond memories of it, it never gave me a single problem, and most importantly, I just want it. Does anyone know if these are sold anywhere? Any help will be very appreciated. -->

03-02-2012, 08:40 PM	#2
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,662	Re: Argentine 1911 I think you're pretty much SOL. Years ago there were a bunch of 'em come in - both Sistema and Ballester Molina. But I have not heard of any coming in lately. You're only chance, as I see it, is to haunt the auction boards and hope one shows up. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

03-02-2012, 09:02 PM	#3
H-D Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Mississippi Posts: 1,334	Re: Argentine 1911 I saw a few on the big auction sites a while back __________________ And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. Revelation 19:11

03-02-2012, 09:37 PM	#4
Lanrezac Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 687	Re: Argentine 1911 Both types of the Argentine 45 automatics - the Colt 1911 clones by DGFM, and the simplified version by Ballester-Molina - are readily available on gun-sales and gun-auction websites, and I usually see more than one at the few gun shows I get to. The only thing is, since there are no more coming in, prices are going up. People do not hesitate to ask a lot for them, so you have to shop around. Also, they have been in the US long enough for people to have worked on them...with greater or lesser amounts of skill. You can find one OK, you just need to be careful, and decide how much you want to spend. HTH!

03-03-2012, 01:21 PM	#5
Munch V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Puyallup, WA. Posts: 317	Re: Argentine 1911 Thank you all for your insight! I did as all of you suggested and looked on some of the auction site very quickly, and wow, y'all weren't kidding about the prices hitting the roof. If i remember correctly I paid $200.00. Granted, this was nearly 20 years ago. Most I saw just now in decent shape were around 6 to 8 hundred. I will check at the gun show, and on your suggestions, keep an eye on the auctions. Thanks very much for your help!

03-03-2012, 02:49 PM	#6
RunningOnMT Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Akron, Ohio Contributor Posts: 4,720	Re: Argentine 1911 I believe American Classic 1911's are made in Argentina. At least I know they are made by Bersa which is an Argentine company. Buds has them and at a pretty good price by todays standards. http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...ducts_id/49735 __________________ "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!"

03-03-2012, 03:24 PM	#7
Oldeyes V.I.P. Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 218	Re: Argentine 1911 Years ago I did some tune up gun smithing on a couple of Argentine 1911 Colt pattern pistols. I found them to be quite worthy exact copies of the originals, with the exception that all of the steel in them was harder than the hinges of hell. They could be accuracy tuned quite nicely. However, working on those pistols just absolutely ate good files. When I inquired about the degree of metal hardness that I had found I was told that rumor was that the source metal was salvaged from the armor plate of a sunken WWI German battleship. Based upon my experience, I believe it. Anyway, if I was today looking for a good quality moderately priced forged 1911 pattern pistol, I would probably look at some of the used basic GI model Springfield 1911's that are out there. In this area those models often show up used in good condition at quite reasonable prices.

03-03-2012, 03:49 PM	#9
Munch V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Puyallup, WA. Posts: 317	Re: Argentine 1911 That Bersa American Classic looks like a viable option for me. Thats about what I'm looking to spend, I have owned several Bersa handguns in .22 and .380 and found them to be well built, reliable and as accurate as one would expect from a small frame handgun. Thanks for the tip! I hadn't known about Buds until now.

03-03-2012, 03:56 PM	#10
Munch V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Puyallup, WA. Posts: 317	Re: Argentine 1911 Thats an interesting little piece of information about the steel Oldeyes. If I should happen to find another in the future I'll keep that in mind should I ever need to get in and do any tuning or tweaking. Any question I've ever asked of the members at this forum has been answered quickly and the information within has been priceless. This is my favorite place on the internet! Thank you all!!

03-03-2012, 04:40 PM	#11
RunningOnMT Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Akron, Ohio Contributor Posts: 4,720	Re: Argentine 1911 Munch, After I posted that link I went back to Buds site and was looking at all of the 1911's under the Bersa name. On a customer review of one of these models , a person made reference to it being made in the Philippines, so maybe although Bersa is an Argentine company, they are importing their 1911's from a Philippine company. That wouldn't be unusual as there seems to be a lot of 1911's made in P.I. being sold under different name brands. Personally that wouldn't be a problem because I love my Philippine made RIA 1911, but if you specifically want one made in Argentina, this might not be for you. __________________ "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!"

03-03-2012, 05:01 PM	#12
Inthewind1976 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Central Pennsylvania Posts: 533	Re: Argentine 1911 The Argentine 1911's, NOT the two Ballester's, but the true 1911's are made on Colt machinery and jigs, and are essentially a COLT 1911, in its truest form. They are excellent pistols and were an incredible bargain when they were readily available for under $200 a few years ago. Like all "good things" however, they have dried up (there werent millions of em built to begin with) and the prices are going up considerably. They are now beginning to demand some "collector premium" in addition to the fact that ANY true 1911 format pistol is much more expensive than it was a few years ago. The Ballester's were a simplified semiautomatic pistol designed by/for the Argentine military and police, to supplement/replace the earlier exact Colt copies, and while they are decent, well made pistols, they are NOT a '1911' by any standards. They are mechanically different internally, and the only part that swaps are magazines. The prices are going up for Ballisters these days too - the sub-$200 specials we saw a few years ago are long gone. The same is true with many of the fine automatics made by Star in Spain. They are 1911 PATTERN pistols, like the Ballester, but are so only in appearance, not mechanics. So far, many of the fine Star's are still available at a pretty decent price, but their days are numbered as well, because there arent millions of em out there either, and they are not current production arms. Good luck in your search, and if the one you had in the past was a "true" 1911, versus the Ballester, you may wish to consider one of the Philipine current productions ones (like the Rock Island) because they, too, arent going to get any "cheaper" and curretly are available right around $400 give or take a buck. Good luck.