Is the pro-2nd Amendment Vote Taken for Granted? - The Firearms Forum

45Auto · 03-12-2012, 11:16 AM

Reading between the lines of posts like Newt's anti-gun record and Mitt Romney's anti-assault weapon antics got me thinking. If the Republican Party is so pro-2nd Amendment why are these candidates even up for consideration?

Do you think the Republican Party is taking the 2nd Amendment vote for granted?

carver · 03-12-2012, 11:19 AM

graehaven · 03-12-2012, 12:22 PM

That, and they're not the least bit interested in protecting it. They will eventually sell out all gun owners. They're trying to do it now with Romney.

jlloyd73 · 03-12-2012, 12:25 PM

Without a doubt. They are stupid and are too worried about who they can appease, not who they are angering.

Compromise is the worst thing for the 2nd Amendment IMO. Is it straight forward....it even says "shall not be infringed", but they do all the time to make the anti gun people happy.

The anti gun people are too ignorant to see that the government is slowly taking away the rights and freedoms our ancestors gave their life for....not just the 2nd either.

The minority (not a racial statement either) ruling the majority.

pickenup · 03-12-2012, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 45Auto

Do you think the Republican Party is taking the 2nd Amendment vote for granted?

Of course they are.
Many WILL vote that way.
SAD.

45Auto · 03-13-2012, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlloyd73

Without a doubt. They are stupid and are too worried about who they can appease, not who they are angering.

Compromise is the worst thing for the 2nd Amendment IMO. Is it straight forward....it even says "shall not be infringed", but they do all the time to make the anti gun people happy.

The anti gun people are too ignorant to see that the government is slowly taking away the rights and freedoms our ancestors gave their life for....not just the 2nd either.

The minority (not a racial statement either) ruling the majority.

You are right on target. There is a major lack of understanding on the part of the anti-2nd Amendment folks. The so called liberals and conservatives don't talk about things in a civil and respectful manner. If I can get an anti-gun person to try some shooting at the range, they often end the day talking about buying their first pistol. One step in doing my part to make a united country out of a bunch of political factions.

45Auto · 03-13-2012, 04:33 PM

Back on target: If the GOP is taking the 2nd Amendment vote for granted, how can we hold thier feet to the fire and make them pass more sweeping changes to strengthen the 2nd Amendment?

raven818 · 03-13-2012, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 45Auto

Back on target: If the GOP is taking the 2nd Amendment vote for granted, how can we hold thier feet to the fire and make them pass more sweeping changes to strengthen the 2nd Amendment?

The only way is to put more conservatives on the supreme court. Nothing else counts. Anything new, disliked by the left, will get there eventually.

jlloyd73 · 03-13-2012, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raven818

The only way is to put more conservatives on the supreme court. Nothing else counts. Anything new, disliked by the left, will get there eventually.

BINGO...........

Marlin T · 03-13-2012, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 45Auto

Back on target: If the GOP is taking the 2nd Amendment vote for granted, how can we hold thier feet to the fire and make them pass more sweeping changes to strengthen the 2nd Amendment?

Get 'compromising' organizations OUT of DC. Organizations like the NRA.
As it is now Mitt was more than happy to state that he worked with the NRA while passing anti Constitution laws. Sad sad sad.

We need to get other organizations that believe in NOT compromising when it comes to our Natural Rights.

Inalienable Rights VS Compromise

It appears to me that most people don't know WHY the Second Amendment is there in the first place, that needs to change.

V
V
V

Old Guy · 03-13-2012, 09:29 PM

The liberal progressive movement involves both the Dems and the GOP. There are too many who double speak. We simply need to replace them and we do so at the ballot box.

45Auto · 03-14-2012, 07:35 AM

Someone from the NRA called me --again-- about giving them money. Not that it would do alot of good, but I informed the caller of my disappointment with the NRA for not providing me with the whole story of Newt and Mitt's anti gun activities. I kept it polite, but I could tell by the end of the call that the NRA caller was not happy with me.

hogger129 · 03-14-2012, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 45Auto

Reading between the lines of posts like Newt's anti-gun record and Mitt Romney's anti-assault weapon antics got me thinking. If the Republican Party is so pro-2nd Amendment why are these candidates even up for consideration?

Do you think the Republican Party is taking the 2nd Amendment vote for granted?

Yes I do think that. After reading a book called "The Conscience of a Libertarian" by Wayne Allan Root, it really awakened me to the fact that Republican v. Democrat is like voting big government vs. bigger government or dumb vs. dumber. The Republican Party is not at all the party they were 30 years ago.

al45lc · 03-14-2012, 10:06 AM

Another "if they don't think EXACTLY the way I do I'm voting for someone else" thread?
Sad?! Or reality? The polls show that once again Paul hasn't a chance, so voting any way besides the Republican nominee is a vote FOR obama.
It's gonna be a close one, so are people gonna vote for the Republican nominee, or adopt a 'come hell or high water' attitude and vote third party?
So the answer is 'Yes', the Pro-2nd IS taken for granted in some respects, because ANY other vote is FOR an institution that is diametrically opposed to our cause and beliefs.
I don't like it, but I'm not one for cutting off my nose to spite my face either.
Political ideals are one thing, but political reality is often quite another.

Gun Geezer · 03-14-2012, 11:02 AM

The mentality of an anti-gunner is that if all guns are outlawed, eventually nobody will have guns. They also believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy. They rationalize this thought process by their belief that we, as a society, have evolved from the violence of Revolutionary America to the modern, high-tech age of benevolent cradle-to-grave government protectionism. Hey, it could happen! LOL!

carver · 03-14-2012, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hogger129

Yes I do think that. After reading a book called "The Conscience of a Libertarian" by Wayne Allan Root, it really awakened me to the fact that Republican v. Democrat is like voting big government vs. bigger government or dumb vs. dumber. The Republican Party is not at all the party they were 30 years ago.

Dead on! The problem is not that the GOP is taking the pro 2nd amendment voters for granted, which they are, but that the whole bunch is corrupt! Who do you vote in that isn't? Take a real hard look at society in America! Know that who ever is voted, or put, into office, is no more than a reflection of our society! How do you get good, Godly, righteous people from a corrupt society? That's akin to looking in a garbage can for something good to eat!

graehaven · 03-15-2012, 07:59 AM

When the Republican "Chosen One" is in the WH and sells out the conservatives, again, and signs into law either the worst gun ban legislation ever, or outright bans them altogether - in order to "save" the country from certain destruction, perhaps then, the Republican Voter Lemmings will wake up and see them for what they really are.

Of course, by that time, it's too late.

Which, is how it's going to be anyway.

CampingJosh · 03-15-2012, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by al45lc

Another "if they don't think EXACTLY the way I do I'm voting for someone else" thread?
Sad?! Or reality? The polls show that once again Paul hasn't a chance, so voting any way besides the Republican nominee is a vote FOR obama.
It's gonna be a close one, so are people gonna vote for the Republican nominee, or adopt a 'come hell or high water' attitude and vote third party?
So the answer is 'Yes', the Pro-2nd IS taken for granted in some respects, because ANY other vote is FOR an institution that is diametrically opposed to our cause and beliefs.
I don't like it, but I'm not one for cutting off my nose to spite my face either.
Political ideals are one thing, but political reality is often quite another.

Voting for someone other than the Republican is NOT a vote for Obama; that's a non sequitur. To think that's the case, you have to work from the assumption that no one would intentionally vote for Obama.

Is a vote for the Green Party or the Communist Party USA a vote for Obama? Of course not; that voter, if limited to only Democratic or Republican, would likely choose the Democratic candidate.

I would rather vote for Obama than Romney, Santorum, or Gingrich. If the Republican Party wins running any of those guys, then the party is in even worse shape moving forward.

Continuing to support the lesser of two evils ensures that you will have two evils eternally. That is the political reality that I'm facing, and I will not take the short term view.

al45lc · 03-15-2012, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CampingJosh

Voting for someone other than the Republican is NOT a vote for Obama; that's a non sequitur. To think that's the case, you have to work from the assumption that no one would intentionally vote for Obama.

Is a vote for the Green Party or the Communist Party USA a vote for Obama? Of course not; that voter, if limited to only Democratic or Republican, would likely choose the Democratic candidate.

I would rather vote for Obama than Romney, Santorum, or Gingrich. If the Republican Party wins running any of those guys, then the party is in even worse shape moving forward.

Continuing to support the lesser of two evils ensures that you will have two evils eternally. That is the political reality that I'm facing, and I will not take the short term view.

Apparently, your missing my point of voting all together.
If shared by most, that "will not take the short term view" of yours could result in legislation or an Administration that only a revolution will resolve.
You see, the point is to win, at all costs. Because we KNOW what the cost of losing is.
And so, PARTY trumps PERSON.
Your not facing reality at all, yours is a fantasy if you believe that ALL evil will EVER be defeated, ESPECIALLY in politics!
BUt hey, by your own words, we know how you will (or will not) vote.
And I think that's a cop out.
But you won't be the first, nor the last. And eventually, if your attitude persists in the masses, that will be OUR downfall.
Such is the fate of the uncompromising conservative voter.
And unfortunately, all those whom he drags down with him.

CampingJosh · 03-15-2012, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by al45lc

Apparently, your missing my point of voting all together.
If shared by most, that "will not take the short term view" of yours could result in legislation or an Administration that only a revolution will resolve.
You see, the point is to win, at all costs. Because we KNOW what the cost of losing is.
And so, PARTY trumps PERSON.
Your not facing reality at all, yours is a fantasy if you believe that ALL evil will EVER be defeated, ESPECIALLY in politics!

Party doesn't trump person for me, because I am not a Republican.

The Republican Party doesn't represent me any more than the Democratic Party does, so I won't vote for either one. I want a third party to be viable.

The short term view that only Rs or Ds can win means that currently only Rs or Ds can win. But if you have Rs losing by 3-5 percentage points and a conservative/libertarian party getting 8-12%, then the Rs will either (1) start changing their positions to draw in the voters from that other party or (2) become irrelevant forever, in which case the "third party" becomes one of the big two.

That is a political reality. It's happened here in the US before, and it will happen again.

The point is to win at all costs. The Republican candidates do not represent "win" for me. Why would I then support them?

Quote:

BUt hey, by your own words, we know how you will (or will not) vote.
And I think that's a cop out.
But you won't be the first, nor the last. And eventually, if your attitude persists in the masses, that will be OUR downfall.
Such is the fate of the uncompromising conservative voter. (Emphasis added)
And unfortunately, all those whom he drags down with him.

I'm not a conservative. "Conservative" in this country has come to mean freedom-hating war monger who pays lip service to some deist god.
I'm a Christian, but I don't think that we should make people who are choosing for themselves to reject Christ to live according to my moral standards. God lets people have free will; who are we voters to take it away?
Why are we paying for every war in the entire world? Let countries handle their own international relations.

This chart may help you see this upcoming election from my perspective.

Name: Political Spectrum.jpg
Views: 89
Size: 51.5 KB

Why on earth would I care how close a candidate is to the right-hand corner? That's not at all my view.

45Auto · 03-15-2012, 12:24 PM

From the above posts, I see 2nd Amendment voters and pragmatists.

The pragmatic view is to vote for a Republican, even one with an anti-gun record, because an anti-gun Republican is better than Obama. But the trouble with being a pragmatist these days is the inability to trust the data needed to make a pragmatic decision. If the NRA informs us that Mitt Romney is pro-gun while Obama has a "secret conspiracy" to take our guns away, then the choice is simple. But the facts are not that simple: Mitt Romney signed a permanent assault weapon ban in Mass, and Obama signed legislation to permit CCW in Federal Parks. Thus, our 2nd Amendment choices are not simple.

If enough angry 2nd Amendment voters refused to vote for Mitt it would send a valuable lesson to the GOP.

pickenup · 03-15-2012, 12:52 PM

What ANTI-gun legislation has our current president passed?

Double D · 03-15-2012, 12:59 PM

CampingJosh · 03-15-2012, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double D

Dan, I know that you see Obama as the worst president we've ever had (and I definitely put him in the top three). And I know that you believe that he needs to go, no matter who else goes in.

I just happen to see Romney, Santorum, and Gingrich all being potentially much worse than Obama.

al45lc · 03-15-2012, 02:22 PM

Campingjosh, I see your point, but as a minority you seem unable to come to terms with the true reality of U.S. demographics.
You will NEVER be on a winning side with a third party that caters to Christians or other Conservative LEANING people's, for they will take from the Republican vote and THAT does indeed end up being a vote for the Demmies, because they will win. There are few, if any lefties working for a alternative party, and that is their strengh.
You may not be a conservative, but you won't be a winner either, and you will HAVE TO live in their world or leave and find your own.
Past elections not withstanding, that world is gone, and a more 'moderate' one is at hand. Even 'conservatives' are now more willing to accept gay unions, certain social programs, amnesty for illegals, and so on.
The question really is one of whether your willing to compromise, and if so, which party is asking the least in that question.
The Democrats offer no compromise, only Big Brothers way.
You act as though you have a choice other than the two evils. You don't.
Whether you vote or not, one or the other will be thrust upon you, and if that be the case, wouldn't you rather have it be the lesser?

03-12-2012, 11:16 AM	#1
45Auto Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,121	Is the pro-2nd Amendment Vote Taken for Granted? Reading between the lines of posts like Newt's anti-gun record and Mitt Romney's anti-assault weapon antics got me thinking. If the Republican Party is so pro-2nd Amendment why are these candidates even up for consideration? Do you think the Republican Party is taking the 2nd Amendment vote for granted? -->

03-12-2012, 11:19 AM	#2
carver TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: DAV, Deep in the Pineywoods of East Texas, just west of Shreveport, LA Contributor Posts: 11,291	Re: Is the pro-2nd Amendment Vote Taken for Granted? Yep! __________________ Y'all be safe now, ya hear! Lamentations Chapter 5: 1. Remember, O LORD, what is come upon us: consider, and behold our reproach. 2. Our inheritance is turned to strangers, our houses to aliens. 3. We are orphans and fatherless, our mothers [are] as widows. 5. Our necks [are] under persecution: we labour, [and] have no rest. 16. The crown is fallen [from] our head: woe unto us, that we have sinned! 21. Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.

03-12-2012, 12:22 PM	#3
graehaven Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 2,853	Re: Is the pro-2nd Amendment Vote Taken for Granted? That, and they're not the least bit interested in protecting it. They will eventually sell out all gun owners. They're trying to do it now with Romney. __________________ The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." - Thomas Jefferson RESISTANCE IS FEUDAL... PREPARE TO SERVE.

03-12-2012, 12:25 PM	#4
jlloyd73 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Contributor Posts: 1,932	Re: Is the pro-2nd Amendment Vote Taken for Granted? Without a doubt. They are stupid and are too worried about who they can appease, not who they are angering. Compromise is the worst thing for the 2nd Amendment IMO. Is it straight forward....it even says "shall not be infringed", but they do all the time to make the anti gun people happy. The anti gun people are too ignorant to see that the government is slowly taking away the rights and freedoms our ancestors gave their life for....not just the 2nd either. The minority (not a racial statement either) ruling the majority. __________________ --------------------------------------------------- The only thing better than good family is good friends. J and D Lloyd Get ready...it's getting "real" and really fast!

03-13-2012, 04:33 PM	#7
45Auto Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,121	Re: Is the pro-2nd Amendment Vote Taken for Granted? Back on target: If the GOP is taking the 2nd Amendment vote for granted, how can we hold thier feet to the fire and make them pass more sweeping changes to strengthen the 2nd Amendment?

03-13-2012, 09:29 PM	#11
Old Guy V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Beaufort County, NC Contributor Posts: 343	Re: Is the pro-2nd Amendment Vote Taken for Granted? The liberal progressive movement involves both the Dems and the GOP. There are too many who double speak. We simply need to replace them and we do so at the ballot box. __________________ Old Guy ___________ NRA Life Member GOA Life Member

03-14-2012, 07:35 AM	#12
45Auto Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,121	Re: Is the pro-2nd Amendment Vote Taken for Granted? Someone from the NRA called me --again-- about giving them money. Not that it would do alot of good, but I informed the caller of my disappointment with the NRA for not providing me with the whole story of Newt and Mitt's anti gun activities. I kept it polite, but I could tell by the end of the call that the NRA caller was not happy with me.

03-14-2012, 10:06 AM	#14
al45lc Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: colorful colorado Posts: 1,016	Re: Is the pro-2nd Amendment Vote Taken for Granted? Another "if they don't think EXACTLY the way I do I'm voting for someone else" thread? Sad?! Or reality? The polls show that once again Paul hasn't a chance, so voting any way besides the Republican nominee is a vote FOR obama. It's gonna be a close one, so are people gonna vote for the Republican nominee, or adopt a 'come hell or high water' attitude and vote third party? So the answer is 'Yes', the Pro-2nd IS taken for granted in some respects, because ANY other vote is FOR an institution that is diametrically opposed to our cause and beliefs. I don't like it, but I'm not one for cutting off my nose to spite my face either. Political ideals are one thing, but political reality is often quite another. __________________ You are what you do, when it counts.

03-14-2012, 11:02 AM	#15
Gun Geezer Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Central Florida Posts: 1,710	Re: Is the pro-2nd Amendment Vote Taken for Granted? The mentality of an anti-gunner is that if all guns are outlawed, eventually nobody will have guns. They also believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy. They rationalize this thought process by their belief that we, as a society, have evolved from the violence of Revolutionary America to the modern, high-tech age of benevolent cradle-to-grave government protectionism. Hey, it could happen! LOL!

03-15-2012, 07:59 AM	#17
graehaven Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 2,853	Re: Is the pro-2nd Amendment Vote Taken for Granted? When the Republican "Chosen One" is in the WH and sells out the conservatives, again, and signs into law either the worst gun ban legislation ever, or outright bans them altogether - in order to "save" the country from certain destruction, perhaps then, the Republican Voter Lemmings will wake up and see them for what they really are. Of course, by that time, it's too late. Which, is how it's going to be anyway. __________________ The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." - Thomas Jefferson RESISTANCE IS FEUDAL... PREPARE TO SERVE.

03-15-2012, 12:24 PM	#21
45Auto Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,121	Re: Is the pro-2nd Amendment Vote Taken for Granted? From the above posts, I see 2nd Amendment voters and pragmatists. The pragmatic view is to vote for a Republican, even one with an anti-gun record, because an anti-gun Republican is better than Obama. But the trouble with being a pragmatist these days is the inability to trust the data needed to make a pragmatic decision. If the NRA informs us that Mitt Romney is pro-gun while Obama has a "secret conspiracy" to take our guns away, then the choice is simple. But the facts are not that simple: Mitt Romney signed a permanent assault weapon ban in Mass, and Obama signed legislation to permit CCW in Federal Parks. Thus, our 2nd Amendment choices are not simple. If enough angry 2nd Amendment voters refused to vote for Mitt it would send a valuable lesson to the GOP.

03-15-2012, 12:52 PM	#22
pickenup Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains Posts: 6,838	Re: Is the pro-2nd Amendment Vote Taken for Granted? What ANTI-gun legislation has our current president passed? __________________ The gene pool needs chlorine

03-15-2012, 12:59 PM	#23
Double D TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: North Florida Contributor Posts: 8,087	Re: Is the pro-2nd Amendment Vote Taken for Granted? __________________ I own a bunch of scary guns. You want em? Come and take em..... Liberalism is a serious, non curable, mental disorder... NRA LIFE MEMBER Oath Keepers Member NRA Certified Instructor 30 Yr CC permit holder.

03-15-2012, 02:22 PM	#25
al45lc Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: colorful colorado Posts: 1,016	Re: Is the pro-2nd Amendment Vote Taken for Granted? Campingjosh, I see your point, but as a minority you seem unable to come to terms with the true reality of U.S. demographics. You will NEVER be on a winning side with a third party that caters to Christians or other Conservative LEANING people's, for they will take from the Republican vote and THAT does indeed end up being a vote for the Demmies, because they will win. There are few, if any lefties working for a alternative party, and that is their strengh. You may not be a conservative, but you won't be a winner either, and you will HAVE TO live in their world or leave and find your own. Past elections not withstanding, that world is gone, and a more 'moderate' one is at hand. Even 'conservatives' are now more willing to accept gay unions, certain social programs, amnesty for illegals, and so on. The question really is one of whether your willing to compromise, and if so, which party is asking the least in that question. The Democrats offer no compromise, only Big Brothers way. You act as though you have a choice other than the two evils. You don't. Whether you vote or not, one or the other will be thrust upon you, and if that be the case, wouldn't you rather have it be the lesser? __________________ You are what you do, when it counts.