Mosin Nagant jam ...Help !!!!!!!! - The Firearms Forum

terryu1 · 03-24-2012, 06:26 PM

I took the Mosin out again today and after firing about 30 shots I switched to another type of surplus ammo I bought at a local gun shop and I fired the first shot and the bolt is jammed some how. It moves but does not want to come all the way up so that it can be moved back to eject the round. I was able to clear the other live rounds from the bottom. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated since I cannot clean that caustic crap out of the gun either.

warriflefan · 03-24-2012, 06:45 PM

I had this problem when I switched from brass cased surplus to steel cased surplus in my mosin. The steel cases don't contract like the brass cases so they are really hard to get out. This video on Youtube uses a similar process that I used to get mine up and running.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLL20Oh4P8M

Laquer and dried cosmoline can decrease the diameter of the chamber and they get extra sticky when they get warm from firing the gun.

jack404 · 03-24-2012, 06:50 PM

that laquer or whatever it is is a pain , only issue with mosin's , ammo ..

some methylated spirits and brush will clean that out , just hit it every so often

terryu1 · 03-24-2012, 07:55 PM

I watched the video and understand what may have caused the problem HOWEVER I have a gun with a bolt that will not open and has a spent casing still in closed chamber. I cannot clean it until I can eject the casing but the bolt does not open.

Zane71464 · 03-24-2012, 08:31 PM

If the bolt will move up and it's an emty caseing, take you a small dow rod with
the bolt lifted up and try pushing it out along with working the bolt back.

JLA · 03-24-2012, 11:35 PM

Dale nailed it. Just unlock the bolt and put a brass cleaning rod down the bore and whack it with a hammer with the butt resting on the floor, youll break the extractor if the case is stuck good and you force the bolt to the rear. Gotta drive it by the case itself to prevent damage to the bolt components..

Once open clean er up and never use cheap unknown quality steel cased crap ammo.

MSGT-R · 03-24-2012, 11:53 PM

I fired surplus ammo through a Carcano once.. never again. It had a soft delivery to where I was lucky the bullet cleared the bore!

Munch · 03-25-2012, 12:23 AM

My Mosin has had that problem in the past as well. For me it was as easy as letting the spent case cool for a few minutes and then hitting the bolt upward with my palm like I really meant it. This was also with surplus ammo, and I don't really want to cycle more through it, but I have a few hundred left. Seems like a waste to just forget it in an ammo box...

terryu1 · 03-25-2012, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munch

My Mosin has had that problem in the past as well. For me it was as easy as letting the spent case cool for a few minutes and then hitting the bolt upward with my palm like I really meant it. This was also with surplus ammo, and I don't really want to cycle more through it, but I have a few hundred left. Seems like a waste to just forget it in an ammo box...

This is exactly my problem. The bolt will not lift enough to allow it to be moved back to even expose the spent cartridge. We tried hitting quite hard with the palms of our hands and for quite a while. I was not cycling a lot of shots so the gun never really got hot. I poured a little gun solvent down the barrel last night and some over front of bolt and let it set overnight and will try again in a little. I was very upset as this was only second time out since I won the gun here. Here is a picture of my target from 100 yds open sights from an old fart who has not shot a rifle in a few years.

jack404 · 03-25-2012, 07:36 AM

sorry Terry, i'm a bit thick .. hope its sorted soon eh

terryu1 · 03-25-2012, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLA

Dale nailed it. Just unlock the bolt and put a brass cleaning rod down the bore and whack it with a hammer with the butt resting on the floor, youll break the extractor if the case is stuck good and you force the bolt to the rear. Gotta drive it by the case itself to prevent damage to the bolt components..

Once open clean er up and never use cheap unknown quality steel cased crap ammo.

Like I said I cannot unlock the bolt. It will not lift enough to unlock and open. It just about gets to where I can move bolt backwards but just not quite enough. thanks for help though

Bindernut · 03-25-2012, 09:00 AM

Warm the rifle up good...sit it next to the furnace or wherever you've got some heat going. Maybe try a hair dryer on the action & chamber area to warm it up good too if you've got the furnace shut down for the year already.

The Mineral Spirits that we've got here in the states doesn't work all that hot on lacquer. It might soften the goo up a bit, but probably not enough to break it loose.
You will need get some lacquer thinner instead.
Be careful not to get the stuff on the stock though as it'll also strip the varnish off of the wood!

It's gonna be a stinker to get that lacquer to loosen up again. The nasty stuff got good and melted when you were firing it, but now the rifle has cooled down and the lacquer has set itself back up.
Basically it's like the case is held in the chamber by mild loctite so treat it as such.

terryu1 · 03-25-2012, 09:43 AM

Again, maybe I am not explaining it too well but I cannot get to the casing to put any lacquer or thinner to it. The bolt is still closed and cannot be opened. Here is a picture of how the gun is now. The bolt will move up and down about an inch or so but will not move all the way up so that the spent casing can even be accessed. The action on this gun has been very tight from when I got it but it is odd that the very first shot with this type of ammo jammed the bolt closed.

MSGT-R · 03-25-2012, 10:03 AM

If there is no screw to undo that the bolt itself covers up, take the action off the stock.
Pour the solvent down through the muzzle.

..or take it to a gun smith.

terryu1 · 03-25-2012, 10:46 AM

After padding the gun well I put it in my vise and held the bolt down as far as it would go until getting stuck and then gave it a few sharp raps with a rubber mallet and the action popped open and when I opened the bolt the spent round popped right out. As as side benefit, putting the solvent in yesterday may have really loosened things up as the bolt opens and closes very easily now and it never did before.

Thank You Munch for your advise of hitting it "like you mean it" LOL. I didn't really have to hit it too hard with the rubber mallet and it popped. Thank You to all for the great advice. I think I will try that Youtube fix to clean it up good now.

TRAP55 · 03-25-2012, 11:00 AM

A bent extractor will cause the same issue too.
Most common cause is the combo of melted cosmolene, and lacquer from the cases.
It's a Mosin, built with all the finesse of an anvil, for Russian peasants to use. If the bolt got stuck, it got opened with a piece of firewood for a hammer.
You have two choices;
pour lacquer thinner down the bore and use a rubber mallet to open the bolt, with the thinner most likely stripping half the stock finish, or my choice:
Just use the rubber mallet and chance a broken extractor. They're cheap and easy to replace.
So that it doesn't happen again:
After you get the bolt out, remove the barreled action. You'll need a .410 shotgun bronze bore brush (.45cal rifle brush works too), 0000 steel wool, spray can of carb cleaner (easier to use than pouring lacquer thinner), tip section of a shotgun cleaning rod, and an electric hand drill.
Take a small piece of the steel wool and pull it apart. Wrap that evenly around the bore brush. Put the brush in the cleaning rod end, and chuck it in the drill.
Insert the brush into the chamber, good hosing with carb cleaner, spin slowly working the brush in and out of the full length of the chamber for a five count. Hose it again, repeat. Repeat until the chamber is bright and shiny. It helps to have a second set of hands to spray the cleaner while you work the brush, more cleaner...the faster it works.
All that nasty crap just flushed down your bore, so clean it like you normally would. You're good to go.
Lacquer cases won't gum up a chamber unless that chamber is too hot to touch, and the round sits in it for more than a minute, giving the lacquer time to melt.
If you're doing a lot of shooting with it, and the bolt starts to get sticky, stop shooting, and use the above to clean the chamber.
Good idea to get a broken case extractor too. Brass, and steel surplus, can and will separate on occasion. Chamber the extractor and eject it, day not ruined.

TRAP55 · 03-25-2012, 11:02 AM

Well dam, in the time it took me to type that, you already did it!

Clean that chamber now!

terryu1 · 03-25-2012, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRAP55

Well dam, in the time it took me to type that, you already did it!

Clean that chamber now!

Just got done. Used 20 patches after rigorous brushing. Topped off with a good thin coat of "Silver Bullet Gun Oil". Took bolt out and thoroughly cleaned chamber with a 12 gauge mop and actually , by accident, figured how to take the bolt apart. I cleaned the three pieces of the bolt and reassembled after oiling with Silver Bullet. You can almost close the bolt by breathing on it now. I am thoroughly content. Thanks again to all here. No need to go anywhere else.

warriflefan · 03-25-2012, 02:28 PM

I couldn't unlock mine with the palm of my hand so I laid it on it's side and took a rubber tent stake mallet to mine ( hitting it from side to side) and it turned over and came loose.

Bindernut · 03-25-2012, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terryu1

Again, maybe I am not explaining it too well but I cannot get to the casing to put any lacquer or thinner to it. The bolt is still closed and cannot be opened. Here is a picture of how the gun is now. The bolt will move up and down about an inch or so but will not move all the way up so that the spent casing can even be accessed. The action on this gun has been very tight from when I got it but it is odd that the very first shot with this type of ammo jammed the bolt closed.

Terry, if it happens again...hopefully not, but it probably will...you can pour the lacquer thinner down the barrel. Like a good penetration oil, It's thin enough that it will creep between the chamber and the case to soften the lacquer crud up.
As I mentioned earlier, the lacquer thinner will attack the finish on the stock so if you can, pull the barreled action off the wood before doing any cleaning with the thinner.

But yep, the best way to prevent it is to keep the chamber clean of that stuff and avoid the lacquered ammo in the future if you can.

Glad you got it open and cleaned up!

03-24-2012, 06:26 PM	#1
terryu1 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: NE Pennsylvania Contributor Posts: 1,265	Mosin Nagant jam ...Help !!!!!!!! I took the Mosin out again today and after firing about 30 shots I switched to another type of surplus ammo I bought at a local gun shop and I fired the first shot and the bolt is jammed some how. It moves but does not want to come all the way up so that it can be moved back to eject the round. I was able to clear the other live rounds from the bottom. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated since I cannot clean that caustic crap out of the gun either. __________________ ARMED INFIDEL -->

03-24-2012, 06:45 PM	#2
warriflefan V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Meadow Vista, CA Posts: 243	Re: Mosin Nagant jam ...Help !!!!!!!! I had this problem when I switched from brass cased surplus to steel cased surplus in my mosin. The steel cases don't contract like the brass cases so they are really hard to get out. This video on Youtube uses a similar process that I used to get mine up and running. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLL20Oh4P8M Laquer and dried cosmoline can decrease the diameter of the chamber and they get extra sticky when they get warm from firing the gun. __________________ "Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, The Federalist Papers #46 at 243-244) "I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." (Thomas Jefferson)

03-24-2012, 06:50 PM	#3
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: Mosin Nagant jam ...Help !!!!!!!! that laquer or whatever it is is a pain , only issue with mosin's , ammo .. some methylated spirits and brush will clean that out , just hit it every so often Last edited by jack404; 03-24-2012 at 06:52 PM..

03-24-2012, 07:55 PM	#4
terryu1 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: NE Pennsylvania Contributor Posts: 1,265	Re: Mosin Nagant jam ...Help !!!!!!!! I watched the video and understand what may have caused the problem HOWEVER I have a gun with a bolt that will not open and has a spent casing still in closed chamber. I cannot clean it until I can eject the casing but the bolt does not open. __________________ ARMED INFIDEL

03-24-2012, 08:31 PM	#5
Zane71464 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Ohio NRA Member Contributor Posts: 5,408	Re: Mosin Nagant jam ...Help !!!!!!!! If the bolt will move up and it's an emty caseing, take you a small dow rod with the bolt lifted up and try pushing it out along with working the bolt back. __________________ Two Words; "Simple Man", song by Charlie Daniels sums up my thoughts on a "few things"!

03-24-2012, 11:35 PM	#6
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,398	Re: Mosin Nagant jam ...Help !!!!!!!! Dale nailed it. Just unlock the bolt and put a brass cleaning rod down the bore and whack it with a hammer with the butt resting on the floor, youll break the extractor if the case is stuck good and you force the bolt to the rear. Gotta drive it by the case itself to prevent damage to the bolt components.. Once open clean er up and never use cheap unknown quality steel cased crap ammo. __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF! Last edited by JLA; 03-24-2012 at 11:36 PM..

03-24-2012, 11:53 PM	#7
MSGT-R Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: SoCal Posts: 939	Re: Mosin Nagant jam ...Help !!!!!!!! I fired surplus ammo through a Carcano once.. never again. It had a soft delivery to where I was lucky the bullet cleared the bore! __________________ If you suck, go back to the range.

03-25-2012, 12:23 AM	#8
Munch V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Puyallup, WA. Posts: 321	Re: Mosin Nagant jam ...Help !!!!!!!! My Mosin has had that problem in the past as well. For me it was as easy as letting the spent case cool for a few minutes and then hitting the bolt upward with my palm like I really meant it. This was also with surplus ammo, and I don't really want to cycle more through it, but I have a few hundred left. Seems like a waste to just forget it in an ammo box...

03-25-2012, 07:36 AM	#10
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: Mosin Nagant jam ...Help !!!!!!!! sorry Terry, i'm a bit thick .. hope its sorted soon eh

03-25-2012, 09:00 AM	#12
Bindernut Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: ND, USA Posts: 2,489	Re: Mosin Nagant jam ...Help !!!!!!!! Warm the rifle up good...sit it next to the furnace or wherever you've got some heat going. Maybe try a hair dryer on the action & chamber area to warm it up good too if you've got the furnace shut down for the year already. The Mineral Spirits that we've got here in the states doesn't work all that hot on lacquer. It might soften the goo up a bit, but probably not enough to break it loose. You will need get some lacquer thinner instead. Be careful not to get the stuff on the stock though as it'll also strip the varnish off of the wood! It's gonna be a stinker to get that lacquer to loosen up again. The nasty stuff got good and melted when you were firing it, but now the rifle has cooled down and the lacquer has set itself back up. Basically it's like the case is held in the chamber by mild loctite so treat it as such.

03-25-2012, 09:43 AM	#13
terryu1 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: NE Pennsylvania Contributor Posts: 1,265	Re: Mosin Nagant jam ...Help !!!!!!!! Again, maybe I am not explaining it too well but I cannot get to the casing to put any lacquer or thinner to it. The bolt is still closed and cannot be opened. Here is a picture of how the gun is now. The bolt will move up and down about an inch or so but will not move all the way up so that the spent casing can even be accessed. The action on this gun has been very tight from when I got it but it is odd that the very first shot with this type of ammo jammed the bolt closed. Attached Images __________________ ARMED INFIDEL

03-25-2012, 10:03 AM	#14
MSGT-R Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: SoCal Posts: 939	Re: Mosin Nagant jam ...Help !!!!!!!! If there is no screw to undo that the bolt itself covers up, take the action off the stock. Pour the solvent down through the muzzle. ..or take it to a gun smith. __________________ If you suck, go back to the range.

03-25-2012, 10:46 AM	#15
terryu1 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: NE Pennsylvania Contributor Posts: 1,265	Re: Mosin Nagant jam ...Help !!!!!!!! After padding the gun well I put it in my vise and held the bolt down as far as it would go until getting stuck and then gave it a few sharp raps with a rubber mallet and the action popped open and when I opened the bolt the spent round popped right out. As as side benefit, putting the solvent in yesterday may have really loosened things up as the bolt opens and closes very easily now and it never did before. Thank You Munch for your advise of hitting it "like you mean it" LOL. I didn't really have to hit it too hard with the rubber mallet and it popped. Thank You to all for the great advice. I think I will try that Youtube fix to clean it up good now. __________________ ARMED INFIDEL Last edited by terryu1; 03-25-2012 at 10:48 AM..

03-25-2012, 11:00 AM	#16
TRAP55 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Occupied Territory Of Kalifornia Posts: 1,834	Re: Mosin Nagant jam ...Help !!!!!!!! A bent extractor will cause the same issue too. Most common cause is the combo of melted cosmolene, and lacquer from the cases. It's a Mosin, built with all the finesse of an anvil, for Russian peasants to use. If the bolt got stuck, it got opened with a piece of firewood for a hammer. You have two choices; pour lacquer thinner down the bore and use a rubber mallet to open the bolt, with the thinner most likely stripping half the stock finish, or my choice: Just use the rubber mallet and chance a broken extractor. They're cheap and easy to replace. So that it doesn't happen again: After you get the bolt out, remove the barreled action. You'll need a .410 shotgun bronze bore brush (.45cal rifle brush works too), 0000 steel wool, spray can of carb cleaner (easier to use than pouring lacquer thinner), tip section of a shotgun cleaning rod, and an electric hand drill. Take a small piece of the steel wool and pull it apart. Wrap that evenly around the bore brush. Put the brush in the cleaning rod end, and chuck it in the drill. Insert the brush into the chamber, good hosing with carb cleaner, spin slowly working the brush in and out of the full length of the chamber for a five count. Hose it again, repeat. Repeat until the chamber is bright and shiny. It helps to have a second set of hands to spray the cleaner while you work the brush, more cleaner...the faster it works. All that nasty crap just flushed down your bore, so clean it like you normally would. You're good to go. Lacquer cases won't gum up a chamber unless that chamber is too hot to touch, and the round sits in it for more than a minute, giving the lacquer time to melt. If you're doing a lot of shooting with it, and the bolt starts to get sticky, stop shooting, and use the above to clean the chamber. Good idea to get a broken case extractor too. Brass, and steel surplus, can and will separate on occasion. Chamber the extractor and eject it, day not ruined. __________________ Aim small...Miss small www.mausercentral.com/forum

03-25-2012, 11:02 AM	#17
TRAP55 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Occupied Territory Of Kalifornia Posts: 1,834	Re: Mosin Nagant jam ...Help !!!!!!!! Well dam, in the time it took me to type that, you already did it! Clean that chamber now! __________________ Aim small...Miss small www.mausercentral.com/forum

03-25-2012, 02:28 PM	#19
warriflefan V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Meadow Vista, CA Posts: 243	Re: Mosin Nagant jam ...Help !!!!!!!! I couldn't unlock mine with the palm of my hand so I laid it on it's side and took a rubber tent stake mallet to mine ( hitting it from side to side) and it turned over and came loose. __________________ "Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, The Federalist Papers #46 at 243-244) "I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." (Thomas Jefferson)