Defense of a "third party" or "property"? - The Firearms Forum

jce07a · 04-05-2012, 01:37 PM

just over a year ago i had my dog at the dog park (for those who are unfamiliar, its a fenced in area designed for people to bring their dogs to play and exercise off leash) and he isnt a small dog (a great dane mix who couldnt hurt a fly if he wanted to...ive seen him try) but he was attacked outright by another dog (a pitbull mastiff mix). he was so shocked during the attack that he didnt even think to defend himself while this other dog had him by the neck. i was able to run over and myself and 3 other people ended up pulling the other dog off mine. in the process of getting the dog off, i got bit through my finger. my question is, legally, instead of trying to pry the dog off mine could i have just drawn my pistol and shot it? in my opinion, i am defending a third party. and also dogs are typically considered "property" could i have not shot the attacking dog in defense of my property? i typically have a knife in my pocket for various tasks around work also, would i have been in the right to use that to defend my dog? and i now carry a 7.8million volt stun gun whenever i go to the park, would this be a good defense?

i know its a lot of questions but it was kind of a complicated situation and i continue to go to the park with my dog so i am looking for justification if that sort of situation ever arises again. if it makes any difference, my dog is also certified with the AKC as a canine good citizen and certified with the Delta Society as an approved therapy dog

Old Grump · 04-05-2012, 05:44 PM

Shoot the sumbitch then cut it's head off and hand it to the owner in a gunny sack. If it doesn't socialize with other dogs it should never be off leash.

ryan42 · 04-05-2012, 06:14 PM

I do not know about using a knife or a gun that would be deadly force but im pretty sure you could use non lethat force to get him off.There are some law enforcement officers on here that would be better to answer,they will probably be on later.

Alpo · 04-05-2012, 07:22 PM

I'm afraid that neither Old Grump, in Wisconsin, ryan in Indiana or me in Florida could offer you any real advice, since you are in Texas and the laws are different.

I do know that, here, if I was walking my dog on a leash and she was attacked I would be justified in shooting the attacking dog. I don't know about running lose in a dog park though. That would be one to ask a lawyer about.

Sticking your hand into a dog fight, whether you have a knife in it or a stun gun, is, in my opinion, asking to get chewed on. A heavy boot in the ribs will do a better job, but a pistol works better.

RunningOnMT · 04-06-2012, 04:06 AM

Well, here in Ohio you can't shoot a "person" to defend your property, but I really don't know about shooting one dog to defend another. Now if you can make a reasonable case that you personally felt threatened, I'd be willing to bet you could shoot that dog. It's a good question but as Alpo said you can't go by the laws in other states.

Your best bet would be to contact a certified NRA firearms instructor in your state. I say that because it has been my experience it can be a crapshoot if you ask a cop. A lot of times they really don't know so they'll wing it or tell you what they'd like the law to be, not what it is.

yetiman · 04-06-2012, 05:46 AM

By the time you got PETA off your butt you would be better off not shooting a gun.....this just happened a few miles from where I live. A man was walking his Poodle on a leash and a Pit Bull attacked his dog. From what the news projected the Pit Bull owner is going to be liable and they are talking about banning the breed.

carver · 04-06-2012, 06:56 AM

Alpo nailed it! If you don't already have an attorney, then you are behind in the SD game, so to speak. If you are going to carry a gun for SD get an attorney. He will be your advisor in all cases of the law, and the use of deadly force at any time.

76Highboy · 04-06-2012, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpo

I'm afraid that neither Old Grump, in Wisconsin, ryan in Indiana or me in Florida could offer you any real advice, since you are in Texas and the laws are different.

I do know that, here, if I was walking my dog on a leash and she was attacked I would be justified in shooting the attacking dog. I don't know about running lose in a dog park though. That would be one to ask a lawyer about.

Sticking your hand into a dog fight, whether you have a knife in it or a stun gun, is, in my opinion, asking to get chewed on. A heavy boot in the ribs will do a better job, but a pistol works better.

Ditto. Big boots and a gun.

Old Grump · 04-06-2012, 08:04 AM

Sorry folks but I don't care if I am in the middle of Boston Square, in front of Monterey's Fish Market in San Francisco or in city hall in New York City, a large dog attacks me or mine it is going to get stopped. I been on the losing side a few times when I was younger. Now I put the dog down any way I can and so far the only negative reaction has been the neighbor who owned the black lab moved away because the police wouldn't do anything about all the holes in his dog. I'm to old for holes, I don't heal as fast as I used to and I done lost my patience and sense of humor.

CampingJosh · 04-06-2012, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yetiman

By the time you got PETA off your butt you would be better off not shooting a gun.....this just happened a few miles from where I live. A man was walking his Poodle on a leash and a Pit Bull attacked his dog. From what the news projected the Pit Bull owner is going to be liable and they are talking about banning the breed.

Is the "breed" here terrible dog owners? Because I've never had a problem with any dog of any breed, but I've had problems with the owners of many breeds.

Any domesticated breed is controllable by an owner who will do it. The owner should definitely be liable when they do not do so.

jbrescue · 04-06-2012, 11:42 AM

Unfortuantely I think you are accepting some responsibility and liability in the dog park. I am pretty sure that if you shot or stabbed the dog that would be a problem. The stun gun would work and a boot would be better. The worst that would happen is the owner would get pissed, the cops get called and both of you get banned from the dog park. The worst part is that so many people think that they have a great dog. My dog was a great dog too. There is no way I would have taken her to a dog park. She would have tried to "play" with a smaller dog and probably killed it.

yetiman · 04-07-2012, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CampingJosh

Is the "breed" here terrible dog owners? Because I've never had a problem with any dog of any breed, but I've had problems with the owners of many breeds.

Any domesticated breed is controllable by an owner who will do it. The owner should definitely be liable when they do not do so.

I agree completely, you have got to be a responsible owner! As a bicycle enthusiast I encounter hundreds of dogs even though the entire state has a leash law. Almost came to blows with a guy over a lab....I just wanted to know if he had his rabies vaccination and the guy went ballistic until I showed him the bite.

redwing carson · 04-07-2012, 08:03 AM

I have seen a dog park in Dallas, Txs. It would be dangerous to fire a weapon there. Adults, children and pets every where. I would fear a stray bullet hiting someone. I expect in Texas you would be charged for discharging a weapon in the city. I would carry a can of bear spray. That will knock a dog on his butt.

whirley · 04-07-2012, 03:36 PM

I saw something like this happen. The one dog owner in the process of breaking up the fight, "accidently" fell on his knees on the attacking dog. "Accidently" crushed the attacking dogs ribs, and killed it "accidently. "Accidents do happen." The man was young and agile, so was able to move around. No grounds for a law suit and a vicious dog eliminated. I'm too old, so always keep my dog leashed and carry a good stout stick. Actually it's an old club the railroad brakemen used to manually lock the brakes on the freight cars years ago. About the diameter of a billy club, but longer. When I want my dog worked, I take her to a nearby Game Lands off season, and let her work the brush. A good training session for both of us.

jce07a · 04-10-2012, 01:48 PM

reaching in to stop the fight was my last ditch effort. i kicked the hell out of the thing to try to stop it. i grabbed it by the nuts and yanked. punched it in the sides and throat. all to no avail. the owner said to me afterwards "if that ever happens again, don't try to break em up, just let them settle their differences." at the time he said this to me, he was lucky i didnt "settle my differences" with him and his dog. i have nothing against the breed. pits are awesome dogs, two of my really good friends have pits that are both some of the best behaved dogs ive seen. in the months following the event i contacted the owner several times in order to have him pay back my medical bills and my dogs vet bills which he agreed verbally to do and was liable to do anyways according to the city ordinance regarding the park. he neglected to reply to my calls and voicemails so i took the matter to small claims court and won my case. however, i am still waiting for his payment.

armoredman · 04-10-2012, 04:50 PM

Can you attach any real property? Lien on his car?
Pepper spray works wonders.

jce07a · 04-11-2012, 11:47 PM

im not 100% sure. apparently all i can do is file a "failure to pay" against him that last for 10 years and basically prevents him from owning property within the county until he pays me what he owes me.

yellerdawg · 04-25-2012, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jce07a

just over a year ago i had my dog at the dog park (for those who are unfamiliar, its a fenced in area designed for people to bring their dogs to play and exercise off leash) and he isnt a small dog (a great dane mix who couldnt hurt a fly if he wanted to...ive seen him try) but he was attacked outright by another dog (a pitbull mastiff mix). he was so shocked during the attack that he didnt even think to defend himself while this other dog had him by the neck. i was able to run over and myself and 3 other people ended up pulling the other dog off mine. in the process of getting the dog off, i got bit through my finger. my question is, legally, instead of trying to pry the dog off mine could i have just drawn my pistol and shot it? in my opinion, i am defending a third party. and also dogs are typically considered "property" could i have not shot the attacking dog in defense of my property? i typically have a knife in my pocket for various tasks around work also, would i have been in the right to use that to defend my dog? and i now carry a 7.8million volt stun gun whenever i go to the park, would this be a good defense?

i know its a lot of questions but it was kind of a complicated situation and i continue to go to the park with my dog so i am looking for justification if that sort of situation ever arises again. if it makes any difference, my dog is also certified with the AKC as a canine good citizen and certified with the Delta Society as an approved therapy dog

Yes, a lot of questions.

I am not a lawyer or magistrate or even a reserve LEO any longer.
I am a DPS trained CHL instructor.

The training you received per your CHL and the Texas penal codes varies
by instructor, but all require students to follow up and stay as up to date as
they can on their own.

The park...There are public parks where CHL is not allowed, I'm sure you
checked on that. There are no such parks without "posted" rules and
responsibilities and reliefs etc...

Yes, a legal action against the other owner is your route. In future, be sure
and obtain any witness info and contacts. Know all rules and such when
you are off your own property.

The dog is your property, but as with any penal code provisions as they
are stated, any action per your part must be viewed as "reasonable" by
final peer review and the courts. The risks of firing a weapon within
city limits for the reason(s) you state are too great for all aspects as
I see you report.

The State of Texas has, and does allow a great deal of leeway as to
property owners defending ones property, and even still has special
provisions for protecting such "when dark".

The use of your CHL to "stop the threat" against your dog, in an
enclosed area it was put into by you, to mix with other unleashed or controlled dogs, is something I would not advise. I also would not
consider a dog, no matter how much valued or loved, as a "third person"
with respect to self defense laws. However, it is as lawful to defend a
third person as one's self, if and when that third person is under the
same threat requirements as you would be etc...but it still will fall into
the "as deemed reasonable" when you are judged.

You will need to ask an attorney as to your best legal recourse to recover
any possible damages from such an incident, civilly. I told you I was not
an attorney, but I strongly feel after a week of teaching by the DPS, and
years of other experience that although protecting one's property, especially if on one's property to start with, is very liberally offered by the State and is well written within the penal code(s) and has little to do with CHL, with exceptions of stopping "aggravated" sexual/criminal/robbery assault etc...your use of your CHL to stop such a dog situation would seem ill advised, as I read it.

Had the other dog, God forbid, grabbed a child or woman and was injuring
and a threat to them..then possibly you could have put yourself between
this and removed the threat if you "reasonably" decided you could...

Anyway...am sorry you were injured or your good dog...but without trying
to muddy anything further in my attempts, wanted you to know it "appears" to me that you did right by not using your weapon.

At claims court , you might have respectfully petitioned the court to have
party furnish "proof" that his home owners (if he had any) insurance would
not have covered such damages...as the dog was his property...many
would have covered it....etc....

In Dec around 79 when it was pretty cold here...a pit grabbed a liitle
girl on our street in Hurst, TX. A neighbor and I ran to the ruckuss and
he grabbed the girl and I grabbed the dog, which locked onto my right
arm pretty good. I walked to the nearest tree with the dog and took him
out using the tree. I dont advise such for all, but, all are not 6'3' and 300 lbs and
had the temper or training I once had.

regards, and remember to use your weapon only to "stop" the threat
as needed.

yellerdawg

time2shoot · 04-25-2012, 09:59 AM

Since you have his address and know where he lives watch what he drives get make model and plate number. Go back-to-back court house to the clerks office and get an execution order list his car or truck in it pay the fee to the sheriff and they will go get it and auction it off.

And use your boot in the dogs ribs.

Hammerslagger · 04-25-2012, 02:42 PM

Well said yellerdawg.

Alpo · 04-25-2012, 03:31 PM

I definitely ain't a lawyer, but that sounds dumb.

Dog A is chewing on dog B. Dog B's owner should stand aside, and then seek redress in the courts, for damages, as dog B, his property, was "damaged", by dog A?

How about dog B laying there screaming in agony as dog A chews on him? It's okay, because he's just "property"? If dog A chews him into little bitty dog chunks, A's owner can just replace him?

Hammerslagger · 04-25-2012, 04:13 PM

[QUOTE=yellerdawg;913736]Yes, a lot of questions.

...but without trying
to muddy anything further in my attempts, wanted you to know it "appears" to me that you did right by not using your weapon.

When one shoots some person or another person's animal there are often unpleasant legal complications afterward. Shooting is usually a last resort action.

yellerdawg · 04-25-2012, 10:01 PM

[QUOTE=Hammerslagger;913958]

Quote:

Originally Posted by yellerdawg

Yes, a lot of questions.

...but without trying
to muddy anything further in my attempts, wanted you to know it "appears" to me that you did right by not using your weapon.

When one shoots some person or another person's animal there are often unpleasant legal complications afterward. Shooting is usually a last resort action.

I would suggest there is a 28 year old with business to conclude
in Florida who would 2nd that.

Hammerslagger · 04-25-2012, 11:24 PM

Looking at the totality of the Florida situation, to the extent which is possible, for a person not directly involved, but who has done some independent investigation; I would expect that there will either be an acquittal or two hung juries.

The major news media coverage of this matter can only be called racially biased, and about 90% blatantly inaccurate and unfair. The special prosecutor demonstrated bias in the way that she announced that she was filing information for criminal charges.

It is now appears that this entire matter has turned political. Facts do not matter. Witnesses who have significantly changed their stories are credible. Witnesses who apparently say that they saw the decedent on top of the shooter smashing his head against the sidewalk, and the shooter calling for help, do not matter. A so called expert in the pseudo-science of voice analysis is to be believed when he declares that there is only a 48% chance that the voice calling for help is the voice of the shooter. The decedent's mother is to be believed when she swears that the voice calling for help is definitely that of her 2 month dead son.

Certain racist individuals whose livelihoods and social standing has long depended upon stirring up racial strife have been quite effective in doing what they do best in this case.

May the truth and justice, whatever it is, come out and be done.

Caneman · 04-26-2012, 09:23 AM

In my state you can not shoot an animal to protect your property, but you can shoot the animal if it is attacking you and you are "in fear of your life or great bodily harm"... I think in Texas, their version of the castle doctrine allows lethal force in protection of personal property, but I don't know if this applies once you are outside the "domain of your castle"... every state is different, you need to read the self-defense laws of your state and see if it includes provisions for personal property... once the dog was biting you on the hand, and you were in fear of "great bodily harm" you could pull out your gun and shoot the dog in public... of course, if you did not have a permit to carry you would have to answer for that, but at least you would be alive...

04-05-2012, 01:37 PM	#1
jce07a V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Abilene, Texas Posts: 216	Defense of a "third party" or "property"? just over a year ago i had my dog at the dog park (for those who are unfamiliar, its a fenced in area designed for people to bring their dogs to play and exercise off leash) and he isnt a small dog (a great dane mix who couldnt hurt a fly if he wanted to...ive seen him try) but he was attacked outright by another dog (a pitbull mastiff mix). he was so shocked during the attack that he didnt even think to defend himself while this other dog had him by the neck. i was able to run over and myself and 3 other people ended up pulling the other dog off mine. in the process of getting the dog off, i got bit through my finger. my question is, legally, instead of trying to pry the dog off mine could i have just drawn my pistol and shot it? in my opinion, i am defending a third party. and also dogs are typically considered "property" could i have not shot the attacking dog in defense of my property? i typically have a knife in my pocket for various tasks around work also, would i have been in the right to use that to defend my dog? and i now carry a 7.8million volt stun gun whenever i go to the park, would this be a good defense? i know its a lot of questions but it was kind of a complicated situation and i continue to go to the park with my dog so i am looking for justification if that sort of situation ever arises again. if it makes any difference, my dog is also certified with the AKC as a canine good citizen and certified with the Delta Society as an approved therapy dog -->

04-05-2012, 05:44 PM	#2
Old Grump Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Little hut in the woods near Blue River Wisconsin Posts: 2,290	Re: Defense of a "third party" or "property"? Shoot the sumbitch then cut it's head off and hand it to the owner in a gunny sack. If it doesn't socialize with other dogs it should never be off leash. __________________ "When once a republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil."~~- Thomas Jefferson Roman Catholic, Life Member of American Legion, VFW, Wisconsin Libertarian party, Wi-FORCE, WGO, NRA, JPFO, GOA, SAFand CCRKBA

04-05-2012, 06:14 PM	#3
ryan42 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: marion indiana Contributor Posts: 1,549	Re: Defense of a "third party" or "property"? I do not know about using a knife or a gun that would be deadly force but im pretty sure you could use non lethat force to get him off.There are some law enforcement officers on here that would be better to answer,they will probably be on later.

04-05-2012, 07:22 PM	#4
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,662	Re: Defense of a "third party" or "property"? I'm afraid that neither Old Grump, in Wisconsin, ryan in Indiana or me in Florida could offer you any real advice, since you are in Texas and the laws are different. I do know that, here, if I was walking my dog on a leash and she was attacked I would be justified in shooting the attacking dog. I don't know about running lose in a dog park though. That would be one to ask a lawyer about. Sticking your hand into a dog fight, whether you have a knife in it or a stun gun, is, in my opinion, asking to get chewed on. A heavy boot in the ribs will do a better job, but a pistol works better. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

04-06-2012, 04:06 AM	#5
RunningOnMT Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Akron, Ohio Contributor Posts: 4,720	Re: Defense of a "third party" or "property"? Well, here in Ohio you can't shoot a "person" to defend your property, but I really don't know about shooting one dog to defend another. Now if you can make a reasonable case that you personally felt threatened, I'd be willing to bet you could shoot that dog. It's a good question but as Alpo said you can't go by the laws in other states. Your best bet would be to contact a certified NRA firearms instructor in your state. I say that because it has been my experience it can be a crapshoot if you ask a cop. A lot of times they really don't know so they'll wing it or tell you what they'd like the law to be, not what it is. __________________ "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!"

04-06-2012, 05:46 AM	#6
yetiman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Martin, Tn Contributor Posts: 501	Re: Defense of a "third party" or "property"? By the time you got PETA off your butt you would be better off not shooting a gun.....this just happened a few miles from where I live. A man was walking his Poodle on a leash and a Pit Bull attacked his dog. From what the news projected the Pit Bull owner is going to be liable and they are talking about banning the breed.

04-06-2012, 06:56 AM	#7
carver TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: DAV, Deep in the Pineywoods of East Texas, just west of Shreveport, LA Contributor Posts: 11,280	Re: Defense of a "third party" or "property"? Alpo nailed it! If you don't already have an attorney, then you are behind in the SD game, so to speak. If you are going to carry a gun for SD get an attorney. He will be your advisor in all cases of the law, and the use of deadly force at any time. __________________ Y'all be safe now, ya hear! Lamentations Chapter 5: 1. Remember, O LORD, what is come upon us: consider, and behold our reproach. 2. Our inheritance is turned to strangers, our houses to aliens. 3. We are orphans and fatherless, our mothers [are] as widows. 5. Our necks [are] under persecution: we labour, [and] have no rest. 16. The crown is fallen [from] our head: woe unto us, that we have sinned! 21. Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.

04-06-2012, 08:04 AM	#9
Old Grump Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Little hut in the woods near Blue River Wisconsin Posts: 2,290	Re: Defense of a "third party" or "property"? Sorry folks but I don't care if I am in the middle of Boston Square, in front of Monterey's Fish Market in San Francisco or in city hall in New York City, a large dog attacks me or mine it is going to get stopped. I been on the losing side a few times when I was younger. Now I put the dog down any way I can and so far the only negative reaction has been the neighbor who owned the black lab moved away because the police wouldn't do anything about all the holes in his dog. I'm to old for holes, I don't heal as fast as I used to and I done lost my patience and sense of humor. __________________ "When once a republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil."~~- Thomas Jefferson Roman Catholic, Life Member of American Legion, VFW, Wisconsin Libertarian party, Wi-FORCE, WGO, NRA, JPFO, GOA, SAFand CCRKBA

04-06-2012, 11:42 AM	#11
jbrescue V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: N. Ridgeville, Ohio Posts: 292	Re: Defense of a "third party" or "property"? Unfortuantely I think you are accepting some responsibility and liability in the dog park. I am pretty sure that if you shot or stabbed the dog that would be a problem. The stun gun would work and a boot would be better. The worst that would happen is the owner would get pissed, the cops get called and both of you get banned from the dog park. The worst part is that so many people think that they have a great dog. My dog was a great dog too. There is no way I would have taken her to a dog park. She would have tried to "play" with a smaller dog and probably killed it.

04-07-2012, 08:03 AM	#13
redwing carson Former Guest Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: western wyoming Posts: 734	Re: Defense of a "third party" or "property"? I have seen a dog park in Dallas, Txs. It would be dangerous to fire a weapon there. Adults, children and pets every where. I would fear a stray bullet hiting someone. I expect in Texas you would be charged for discharging a weapon in the city. I would carry a can of bear spray. That will knock a dog on his butt.

04-07-2012, 03:36 PM	#14
whirley V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Contributor Posts: 457	Re: Defense of a "third party" or "property"? I saw something like this happen. The one dog owner in the process of breaking up the fight, "accidently" fell on his knees on the attacking dog. "Accidently" crushed the attacking dogs ribs, and killed it "accidently. "Accidents do happen." The man was young and agile, so was able to move around. No grounds for a law suit and a vicious dog eliminated. I'm too old, so always keep my dog leashed and carry a good stout stick. Actually it's an old club the railroad brakemen used to manually lock the brakes on the freight cars years ago. About the diameter of a billy club, but longer. When I want my dog worked, I take her to a nearby Game Lands off season, and let her work the brush. A good training session for both of us.

04-10-2012, 01:48 PM	#15
jce07a V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Abilene, Texas Posts: 216	Re: Defense of a "third party" or "property"? reaching in to stop the fight was my last ditch effort. i kicked the hell out of the thing to try to stop it. i grabbed it by the nuts and yanked. punched it in the sides and throat. all to no avail. the owner said to me afterwards "if that ever happens again, don't try to break em up, just let them settle their differences." at the time he said this to me, he was lucky i didnt "settle my differences" with him and his dog. i have nothing against the breed. pits are awesome dogs, two of my really good friends have pits that are both some of the best behaved dogs ive seen. in the months following the event i contacted the owner several times in order to have him pay back my medical bills and my dogs vet bills which he agreed verbally to do and was liable to do anyways according to the city ordinance regarding the park. he neglected to reply to my calls and voicemails so i took the matter to small claims court and won my case. however, i am still waiting for his payment.

04-10-2012, 04:50 PM	#16
armoredman Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Proud to be in Arizona Posts: 1,367	Re: Defense of a "third party" or "property"? Can you attach any real property? Lien on his car? Pepper spray works wonders.

04-11-2012, 11:47 PM	#17
jce07a V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Abilene, Texas Posts: 216	Re: Defense of a "third party" or "property"? im not 100% sure. apparently all i can do is file a "failure to pay" against him that last for 10 years and basically prevents him from owning property within the county until he pays me what he owes me.

04-25-2012, 09:59 AM	#19
time2shoot Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Brandon SD Contributor Posts: 2,600	Re: Defense of a "third party" or "property"? Since you have his address and know where he lives watch what he drives get make model and plate number. Go back-to-back court house to the clerks office and get an execution order list his car or truck in it pay the fee to the sheriff and they will go get it and auction it off. And use your boot in the dogs ribs. __________________ I AM A VETERAN MY OATH OF ENLISTMENT HAS NO EXPIRATION DATE!

04-25-2012, 02:42 PM	#20
Hammerslagger Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,099	Re: Defense of a "third party" or "property"? Well said yellerdawg.

04-25-2012, 03:31 PM	#21
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,662	Re: Defense of a "third party" or "property"? I definitely ain't a lawyer, but that sounds dumb. Dog A is chewing on dog B. Dog B's owner should stand aside, and then seek redress in the courts, for damages, as dog B, his property, was "damaged", by dog A? How about dog B laying there screaming in agony as dog A chews on him? It's okay, because he's just "property"? If dog A chews him into little bitty dog chunks, A's owner can just replace him? __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

04-25-2012, 04:13 PM	#22
Hammerslagger Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,099	Re: Defense of a "third party" or "property"? [QUOTE=yellerdawg;913736]Yes, a lot of questions. ...but without trying to muddy anything further in my attempts, wanted you to know it "appears" to me that you did right by not using your weapon. When one shoots some person or another person's animal there are often unpleasant legal complications afterward. Shooting is usually a last resort action.

04-25-2012, 11:24 PM	#24
Hammerslagger Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,099	Re: Defense of a "third party" or "property"? Looking at the totality of the Florida situation, to the extent which is possible, for a person not directly involved, but who has done some independent investigation; I would expect that there will either be an acquittal or two hung juries. The major news media coverage of this matter can only be called racially biased, and about 90% blatantly inaccurate and unfair. The special prosecutor demonstrated bias in the way that she announced that she was filing information for criminal charges. It is now appears that this entire matter has turned political. Facts do not matter. Witnesses who have significantly changed their stories are credible. Witnesses who apparently say that they saw the decedent on top of the shooter smashing his head against the sidewalk, and the shooter calling for help, do not matter. A so called expert in the pseudo-science of voice analysis is to be believed when he declares that there is only a 48% chance that the voice calling for help is the voice of the shooter. The decedent's mother is to be believed when she swears that the voice calling for help is definitely that of her 2 month dead son. Certain racist individuals whose livelihoods and social standing has long depended upon stirring up racial strife have been quite effective in doing what they do best in this case. May the truth and justice, whatever it is, come out and be done.

04-26-2012, 09:23 AM	#25
Caneman Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,271	Re: Defense of a "third party" or "property"? In my state you can not shoot an animal to protect your property, but you can shoot the animal if it is attacking you and you are "in fear of your life or great bodily harm"... I think in Texas, their version of the castle doctrine allows lethal force in protection of personal property, but I don't know if this applies once you are outside the "domain of your castle"... every state is different, you need to read the self-defense laws of your state and see if it includes provisions for personal property... once the dog was biting you on the hand, and you were in fear of "great bodily harm" you could pull out your gun and shoot the dog in public... of course, if you did not have a permit to carry you would have to answer for that, but at least you would be alive...