Castle doctrine

[Double D]

Another good story about the NRA working for gun rights and putting pressure on dems.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47038437.../#.T4g7bdlqPIU

[carver]

"It’s not like a case where there were three other witnesses. Who else is going to say he was fearing for his safety when he shot Trayvon Martin?”
Oh really! Zimmerman said that he feard for his life as Martin was on top of him, beating him with his fists, and slamming his head into the concrete sidewalk. One witness has confirmed that situation by stating to police that Martin was on top of Zimmerman, beating him, while Zimmerman cried for help. Then there is the police report. It also confirms that Zimmerman was on his back, as it was covered with grass, and grass stains. It further indicated that Zimmerman had laserations to the back of his head, and that his nose was broken, and that Zimmerman had cuts around his face. That makes three in my book!

"George Zimmerman expected to take the stand in Trayvon Martin murder case, legal observers say". NBC already knows that Zimmerman is guilty!

"But Zimmerman, charged with second-degree murder in the fatal shooting of Martin during a scuffle in a gated Sanford, Fla., community on Feb. 26, will need to explain why he thought his life was in danger when he shot the unarmed black teenager, attorneys not involved with the case say".
A "scuffle"? Broke nose, laserations to the back of the head from being pounded into the concret, and that's a "Scuffle"? Play down Martins part in this NBC!

http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/...next-week.html

For all the relief among civil rights activists over the arrest, legal experts warned there is a real chance the case could get thrown out before it ever goes to trial because of the “stand your ground” law.

At a pretrial hearing, Zimmerman’s lawyers would only have to prove by a preponderance of evidence — a relatively low legal standard — that he acted in self-defense in order to get a judge to toss out the second-murder charges. And if that fails and the case does go to trial, the defense can raise the argument all over again.

There’s a “high likelihood it could be dismissed by the judge even before the jury gets to hear the case,” Florida defense attorney Richard Hornsby said. Karin Moore, an assistant professor of law at Florida A&M University, said the law “puts a tremendous burden on the state to prove that it wasn’t self-defense.”

[gvw3]

I wouldn't want to be in his place. All this national attention, they want blood. Only time will tell. If this was black on black or white on white he would never have been arrested.

[jaydub]

How do we know that the Martin kid wasn't the one "standing his ground"? He was confronted by a person almost twice his size, maybe he believed he was being attacked.

[ryan42]

Originally Posted by carver

"It’s not like a case where there were three other witnesses. Who else is going to say he was fearing for his safety when he shot Trayvon Martin?”
Oh really! Zimmerman said that he feard for his life as Martin was on top of him, beating him with his fists, and slamming his head into the concrete sidewalk. One witness has confirmed that situation by stating to police that Martin was on top of Zimmerman, beating him, while Zimmerman cried for help. Then there is the police report. It also confirms that Zimmerman was on his back, as it was covered with grass, and grass stains. It further indicated that Zimmerman had laserations to the back of his head, and that his nose was broken, and that Zimmerman had cuts around his face. That makes three in my book!

"George Zimmerman expected to take the stand in Trayvon Martin murder case, legal observers say". NBC already knows that Zimmerman is guilty!

"But Zimmerman, charged with second-degree murder in the fatal shooting of Martin during a scuffle in a gated Sanford, Fla., community on Feb. 26, will need to explain why he thought his life was in danger when he shot the unarmed black teenager, attorneys not involved with the case say".
A "scuffle"? Broke nose, laserations to the back of the head from being pounded into the concret, and that's a "Scuffle"? Play down Martins part in this NBC!

http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/...next-week.html

For all the relief among civil rights activists over the arrest, legal experts warned there is a real chance the case could get thrown out before it ever goes to trial because of the “stand your ground” law.

At a pretrial hearing, Zimmerman’s lawyers would only have to prove by a preponderance of evidence — a relatively low legal standard — that he acted in self-defense in order to get a judge to toss out the second-murder charges. And if that fails and the case does go to trial, the defense can raise the argument all over again.

There’s a “high likelihood it could be dismissed by the judge even before the jury gets to hear the case,” Florida defense attorney Richard Hornsby said. Karin Moore, an assistant professor of law at Florida A&M University, said the law “puts a tremendous burden on the state to prove that it wasn’t self-defense.”

I dont know if you seen it but I heard a report that trayonn was trying to get zimmermans gun,That was leaked by a defense attorney,I dont know if it was zimmermans first attorney or not.

[norahc]

Originally Posted by jaydub

How do we know that the Martin kid wasn't the one "standing his ground"? He was confronted by a person almost twice his size, maybe he believed he was being attacked.

Define twice his size...
http://www.ajc.com/news/q-a-on-the-1412739.html

Q: What were the height and weight of Trayvon Martin and of George Zimmerman at the time of Martin's death?

A: The Associated Press has reported that Martin was 6 feet tall and 140 pounds, but the police report listed him as 6-foot, 160 pounds. The police report stated that Zimmerman is 5-foot-9, but didn’t list his weight. The New York Times reported that witnesses to the fight between Martin and Zimmerman described Martin as 6-foot-1 and 150 pounds and Zimmerman as 5-foot-9, 170 pounds.

Martin was actually taller than Zimmerman, and weighed only 10-30 lbs less, depending upon which source you choose.

[ryan42]

Originally Posted by Double D

Another good story about the NRA working for gun rights and putting pressure on dems.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47038437.../#.T4g7bdlqPIU

It kinda sounds like the politicians are finding out the NRA does matter doesnt it?Thanks for the link double d

[Bobitis]

Originally Posted by jaydub

How do we know that the Martin kid wasn't the one "standing his ground"? He was confronted by a person almost twice his size, maybe he believed he was being attacked.

Sniff, sniff... My allergies are acting up.

[mintaka]

Even if Zimmerman didn't shoot martin, and martin knocked Zimmerman unconscious, martin was protecting his space from an intruder...
Martin was a citizen innocently walking home when confronted by Mr supercop...
It was 2nd degree murder and 1st degree stupidity...martins dead for no reason zimmermanshould have stood his ground at his truck,not in martins face..

[jlloyd73]

LOL....and let the games begin.....again. Some people are clueless to fact and merely want to speculate.

Let me explain this to all the Martin lovers that like to jump in on this debate and feverishly defend that kid.

**Zimmerman is not a racist and if you have been watching a real news program you would see where ABC, NBC and all the left leaning media outlets have been backtracking on everything they have reported on.

**Zimmerman had every right to patrol his neighborhood and watch out for suspicious characters and follow them if he wanted.....even ask that punk what he was doing without being jumped (if that's what happened)

**The kid was no saint and if you want to speculate like you Liberals race baiter, crybabies do...then speculate that just like many young black men running the streets wild at night...that this thug wanna be punk probably had an attitude problem and jumped Zimmerman (just like Zimmerman stated to the police).

**If Martin jumped Zimmerman then Georgie boy had every right to end Martin's life.....especially if Martin was pounding the back of Zimmerman's head against the sidewalk. (that could have led to unconsciousness and further attack, severe brain damage and/or death)

**FL is going to have a hard time convicting this guy if they stick to the facts and don't try to railroad Zimmerman with speculation or smoke and mirrors.....especially since that idiot charged him with 2nd degree murder. (should have been manslaughter)

**This case will be won if the defense effectively argues that there were two separate events that night. One being when Zimmerman called the police, got out of his car to follow Martin and get the building #. Second when he broke away from following of Martin, was going back to his vehicle, and was attacked by Martin. (which is going to be the likely defense strategy)

All I can say to all the people that have already condemned Zimmerman. Don't get upset if Zimmerman doesn't get convicted and walks away free and clear.

[mintaka]

I don't know where you get your info from....the national sherrifs assn in its rules for neighborhood watch programs states 'no person who looks suspicious or dangerous should be personally confronted by NW people'..Mr supercop screwed up and black or white don't matter...no rational unarmed person of any color would confront a suspiscios hooded black man at night, it was the fact that Zimmerman was armed that he followed martin on foot...again electing himself neighborhood supercop...its not a race issue its an issue of prudent behavior, bad choice Mr Z

[25yretcoastie]

One thing is clear the Martins have made millions on this . Every rally has collecting buckets Hoodie and t shirt sales copy right his pictures ( of which none recent have ever been published most show him at 12 and 14) and the phrase Justice for
Trayvon.

Zimmerman deserves his day in court and I hope he wins but I don't think he will ever be a free man again. Too bad the media and others out there have made this into a race issue. If it was a black man shooting a white young man there would be no big deal

[north tex]

Originally Posted by mintaka

Even if Zimmerman didn't shoot martin, and martin knocked Zimmerman unconscious, martin was protecting his space from an intruder...
Martin was a citizen innocently walking home when confronted by Mr supercop...
It was 2nd degree murder and 1st degree stupidity...martins dead for no reason zimmermanshould have stood his ground at his truck,not in martins face..

As much as this event has been discussed all over the internet and news media and you still only have this prejudiced version of the story!!!! Go do some research and see what the rest of the story is.

[jlloyd73]

Originally Posted by mintaka

I don't know where you get your info from....the national sherrifs assn in its rules for neighborhood watch programs states 'no person who looks suspicious or dangerous should be personally confronted by NW people'..Mr supercop screwed up and black or white don't matter...no rational unarmed person of any color would confront a suspiscios hooded black man at night, it was the fact that Zimmerman was armed that he followed martin on foot...again electing himself neighborhood supercop...its not a race issue its an issue of prudent behavior, bad choice Mr Z

National Sheriff's (not sherrifs) Association ....blah, blah, blah. Smoke and Mirrors. That fact of the matter with that is...it doesn't matter. Watching, following, even asking another human a question isn't a crime. I would like to see the document that Zimmerman signed saying he would follow these rules. It is private property...not owned by the NSA.

Oh yeah...Confrontation is the word the sheep like to use. Where is the proof he confronted the kid? You lose any rational argument when you start assuming rather than sticking to the facts.

Electing himself........again blah, blah, blah. He was reportedly elected by the residents of the neighborhood to be watch captain. That doesn't sound like self appointed or self elected to me.

Martin was the one who made the bad choice by jumping on a man that was armed.......

Look on the bright side...if it wasn't this Hispanic man doing it, it would have probably been another black guy a few years from now. The facts at least support that little tid bit.

[Bobitis]

Originally Posted by north tex

As much as this event has been discussed all over the internet and news media and you still only have this prejudiced version of the story!!!! Go do some research and see what the rest of the story is.

Rest of the story? Facts?

Silly goose...

[norahc]

Originally Posted by mintaka

I don't know where you get your info from

From multiple sources instead of being spoof fed to me by those with an agenda

Originally Posted by mintaka

....the national sherrifs assn in its rules for neighborhood watch programs states 'no person who looks suspicious or dangerous should be personally confronted by NW people'

So? The National Sheriff's Assn. is NOT a law enforcement agency or official agency of any type. It is an advocacy group no different than the NAACP or NBPP. Their "rules" are nothing more than recomendations.

Originally Posted by mintaka

..Mr supercop screwed up and black or white don't matter

Neither does the truth, apparently. You've already made up your mind and nothing will change that. The more you are proven wrong, the more you will result to hype and hysteria to prove your point. The proof is in your continued use of the word "supercop" to refer to Zimmerman, in an obvious attempt to divert attention away from your lack of any proof.

Originally Posted by mintaka

...no rational unarmed person of any color would confront a suspiscios hooded black man at night,

What an unmitigated, racist, BS comment that completely lacks any foundation in reality. Did you really just say that "suspicious hooded black" men are so scary and dangerous that nobody in their right mind would approach them at night?

Originally Posted by mintaka

it was the fact that Zimmerman was armed that he followed martin on foot

So you've read his mind and know his motivations or are you basing this upon what you WANT to believe. This may or may not be the case, but to date, there has been nothing that even resembles and proof for this wild claim.

Originally Posted by mintaka

...again electing himself neighborhood supercop

Again with the use of the word "supercop". Maybe he was doing what he was supposed to do in his mind. Follow, observe, and report.

Originally Posted by mintaka

...its not a race issue its an issue of prudent behavior, bad choice Mr Z

In your view, it absolutely is a race issue other wise you wouldn't have made the comment

Originally Posted by mintaka

...no rational unarmed person of any color would confront a suspiscios hooded black man at night,

[mintaka]

You ask for fact....is it a fact that martin jumped Zimmerman? If so says who....
The only irrefutible facts are
Martin is dead
Martin was unarmed
Zimmerman followed martin after 911 told him it was not advisable
Martin had recorded phone conversation with girl friend
Anything else is zimmermans story could be fact or not
Guess we will eventually see..Mr Made poor initial judgement call and all went downhillafter that..to say that the kid would eventually be killed anyway, makes everything else you say very questionable to say the least

[norahc]

Originally Posted by mintaka

You ask for fact....is it a fact that martin jumped Zimmerman? If so says who....
The only irrefutible facts are
Martin is dead
Martin was unarmed
Zimmerman followed martin after 911 told him it was not advisable
Martin had recorded phone conversation with girl friend
Anything else is zimmermans story could be fact or not
Guess we will eventually see..Mr Made poor initial judgement call and all went downhillafter that..to say that the kid would eventually be killed anyway, makes everything else you say very questionable to say the least

So based upon the "irrefutible facts" that you cite, what is your basis for your opinions about what happened and continued referral of Zimmerman as "supercop" or "Mr Made poor initial judgement"?

[jlloyd73]

Originally Posted by mintaka

You ask for fact....is it a fact that martin jumped Zimmerman? If so says who....
The only irrefutible facts are
Martin is dead
So, people die every day.
Martin was unarmed
Shouldn't have jumped an armed man then.
Zimmerman followed martin after 911 told him it was not advisable
There is no proof of that...you are grasping.
Martin had recorded phone conversation with girl friend
"Recorded.....??? Really, are you sure about that?
Anything else is zimmermans story could be fact or not
There is a witness that saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman beating him and slamming his head into the sidewalk.....seems fishy to me that YOU are ignoring that fact.
Guess we will eventually see..Mr Made poor initial judgement call and all went downhillafter that..to say that the kid would eventually be killed anyway, makes everything else you say very questionable to say the least
No, actually that is a fact. If you look at the lifestyle he was living and the ratio that blacks like that kill each other.....sounds pretty plausible.

[Bobitis]

The facts are, Z was attacked. His head was being beat into the pavement. And you refuse to understand the facts.

Go troll somewhere else.

[Jerryboy]

I can hardly wait for mintaka to become a former guest

[mintaka]

So martins lifestyle made him deserving of being killed or eventually killed, but zimmermans previous arrest for assaulting a LEO doesnt count...
I think its fair to say that there are strong opinions on both sides, but to cut me off for my words or opinions is really not what the constitution is all about...
How someone can say martin deserved to die in march or in the future is as sickening a statement as can be said on a site that has a religious theme...what gives...or does everyone agree with this....if so you should be ashamed...
I'm not trolling, I have my opinions, and if you read my previous remarks they are not really onesided as far as race goes..I'm just trying to be honest and not a hypocrite..

[norahc]

Originally Posted by mintaka

So martins lifestyle made him deserving of being killed or eventually killed,

Nobody said that. What was said was that his lifestyle made him statistically more likely for it to happen.

Originally Posted by mintaka

but zimmermans previous arrest for assaulting a LEO doesnt count...

If you really want to bring in previous charges/arrests into the discussion, what about Martin's history of burglary and drugs?

Originally Posted by mintaka

I think its fair to say that there are strong opinions on both sides,

True.

Originally Posted by mintaka

but to cut me off for my words or opinions is really not what the constitution is all about...

The Constitution only restricts what the government can do to the people, not what an internet forum can do to it's members. Also, if you're going to claim the Constitution for your protection here, at least respect it and capitalize it as a proper name (sorry, but it's a pet peeve of mine).

Originally Posted by mintaka

How someone can say martin deserved to die in march or in the future is as sickening a statement as can be said on a site that has a religious theme...what gives...or does everyone agree with this....

If he was assaulting Zimmerman, to the point of beating his head on the concrete after breaking his nose, what did Martin deserve? How much more should Zimmerman have taken before he put a stop to it?

Originally Posted by mintaka

if so you should be ashamed...

So should you for failing to get your facts straight and changing what people said here into what you want them to have said here.

Originally Posted by mintaka

I'm not trolling, I have my opinions, and if you read my previous remarks they are not really onesided as far as race goes..I'm just trying to be honest and not a hypocrite..

And everyone else has theirs. But you're the one tossing about words like "supercop" and making racial comments here. If you were truly being honest, you would avoid such inflammatory descriptions and wording which clearly show you have an agenda, and focus on facts.

[jlloyd73]

Originally Posted by mintaka

So martins lifestyle made him deserving of being killed or eventually killed, but zimmermans previous arrest for assaulting a LEO doesnt count...
I think its fair to say that there are strong opinions on both sides, but to cut me off for my words or opinions is really not what the constitution is all about...
How someone can say martin deserved to die in march or in the future is as sickening a statement as can be said on a site that has a religious theme...what gives...or does everyone agree with this....if so you should be ashamed...
I'm not trolling, I have my opinions, and if you read my previous remarks they are not really onesided as far as race goes..I'm just trying to be honest and not a hypocrite..

LOL....pick and choosing what you want huh. So, its OK to bash Zimmerman's past, but you can't handle the truth when it comes to that thug punk Trayvon.

We have too many punks like him running around already.....so pardon me if I feel no sympathy for his loss. It was a punk (race not a consideration either...just a young punk thug) like him that tried to car jack my wife a few months ago...........so boo hoo, cry a river, I won't.

This has nothing to do with religion or my beliefs.

I refuse to condemn Zimmerman based on assumptions and a clear distorting of the truth by race baiters.

When are people going to finally quit giving the black communities a free pass for all their crap (based on sympathy over slavery decades ago) and hold them accountable for how they are raising their little black thugs. They don't want people to look at them sideways.....then act like decent human beings. I am sick of seeing some black kids underwear because a a stupid fad....I am sick of going places and having black (primarily black women) being loud, obnoxious and rude........

Martin jumped the wrong man.....his error.

[Appliancedude]

The only thing I'm going to interject here is Zimmerman was advised by 911 not to follow him. That's in the 911 recordings. He was not told not to, just told that it wasn't necessary. To me if a 911 officer tells me its not necessary I would take it as advise. However I very rarely follow advise I didn't ask for so I probably would have done as Zimmerman did.

Personally I think Zimmerman should have been charged with manslaughter. I also think unless he gets totally railroaded he's gonna walk. He also has no life from here on out. He's already been convicted in the court of public opinion.