AR 223 stopping power

[JasonS]

So it seems to be the most widely disputed subject in my quest for an AR, time and time again,,,,,,,,no stopping power, short range power, long range still with the velocity it will stop people and so on.

Question is this, with a shotgun and a 45, would the AR be a good choice for shooting at a range and also for my main rifle for 1-200 yards and such in case of a street attack or whatever lol. Chupacabras coming down my block, whatever.

[norahc]

Absolutely. Stopping power is more about shot placement anyway, and the AR platform is very accurate.

[HG&A]

Please don't take me as an expert and I don't want to misinform anyone but here I go...
I was sitting on the training field at Fort Benning GA. back around 1990, while a Drill Sargent told us that the 5.56X45 MM was designed not to kill the victim immediately, but to disable the victim. This was so the enemy would use one or two additional soldiers to remove the wounded soldier...hence removing 3 of the opposition from the battle field temporarily. It was also a compact ammunition so the soldier could carry a larger amount of it at one time.
As far as 200 yards this round is just warming up. A 500 yard shot is very doable for the practiced shooter. I love the round and it is very accurate in the right rifle...and hands.
Hope this helps...a little...

[mogunner]

I heard the same story at Fort Benning GA, but it was in 1982...

I went with the 7.62x39 over the .223 personally for my chupacabra defense rifle.

[norahc]

But wouldn't "disabling the enemy" constitute a stop for all intents and purposes, especially in the role the OP was talking about?

[ryan42]

Originally Posted by mogunner

I heard the same story at Fort Benning GA, but it was in 1982...

I went with the 7.62x39 over the .223 personally for my chupacabra defense rifle.

chupacabra????

[Albtraum]

I think the low recoil of the .223 is a MAJOR advantage. Stopping power is plenty, even with lower velocity from an 11" M4 barrel. No reason to go bigger, like a .308 or something, when the recoil is going to disrupt following shots.

[jack404]

your .223 will do a good job ,

if your hitting the targets at 300 or less thats lethal shooting right there

dont stress , practise more then know what ever you aim for will be dead next heartbeat ...

[ryan42]

what is a chupacabra?

[jack404]

me in my other suit

i made a mistake in Tijuana when visiting and things got outta hand and now everyone is persecuting the helll outta me , i mean they where only 6 goats ...

[Albtraum]

Originally Posted by ryan42

what is a chupacabra?

A rumored creature, like big foot, spotted throughout Mexico and Latin America, and southern US. Farmers find goats and cattle dismembered and blood drained. People that claim sightings say they are demonic looking creatures with spikes and red eyes.

[jack404]

see!!!

one night out on the town and now all i hear about is THIS ..

now its spread to cattle .. but there where only 6 goats

[JasonS]

lol thanks for the info guys, and the humor.

[Zane71464]

Originally Posted by JasonS

So it seems to be the most widely disputed subject in my quest for an AR, time and time again,,,,,,,,no stopping power, short range power, long range still with the velocity it will stop people and so on.

Question is this, with a shotgun and a 45, would the AR be a good choice for shooting at a range and also for my main rifle for 1-200 yards and such in case of a street attack or whatever lol. Chupacabras coming down my block, whatever.

1-200yds yes. And with the right ammo, ie., HP and FMJ, the FMJ ammo
will penetrate more and at more distances. As said above the .223 round
coming out of an AR has alot more potential then 200yds and with the right
shot placement, the .223 will take about anything "out" of the equation @ 100-
200yds.

[jack404]

yes lotsa "holy martyrs" made by them

[carver]

Originally Posted by JasonS

So it seems to be the most widely disputed subject in my quest for an AR, time and time again,,,,,,,,no stopping power, short range power, long range still with the velocity it will stop people and so on.

Question is this, with a shotgun and a 45, would the AR be a good choice for shooting at a range and also for my main rifle for 1-200 yards and such in case of a street attack or whatever lol. Chupacabras coming down my block, whatever.

The .223 is a good round, and known for it's accuracy. Stopping power has been debated for a long time with this round, but the new Cor-Bon DPX Solid Copper Lead Free 53 Grain bullets at 3300 fps will put a deer down right now. Not sure about Chupacabras, they are supposed to be a lot larger, and meaner than white tailed deer!

[CHW2021]

I will have to look for chupacabra sightings in Australia, there have been rumors.....

Jack, please limit yourself, your input is informative.

[muddober]

HG&A, while I know you didn't make that dumb claim rather some drill Sergeant did it is wrong. While it is true that a wounded solder takes three out of the field but the gun and the cartridge was NOT designed to only wound and the statement defies logic because a wounded man can very often shoot back. The gun and the cartridge were designed so that the solder had a lighter weapon and could carry more ammo. The 223 was replacing the 308 which weighed almost twice as much. Same thing with the M14 weighing about 1.7 times that of the M16. Also one of the criteria is it had to shoot through both sides of a standard issue GI helmet at 500 yards, hardly making wounding to be a consideration.

There was so much folk lore about the gun and the cartridge when it first came out it was funny, most of which came from guys in the military who knew nothing about guns let alone internal ballistics. One of the best ones was that the bullet tumbled yet no one could explain the round holes it made in paper targets.

One of the most real issues when it first came out was that a new AR15 cost $163.50 in my local hardware store, serial number 9xx and the government was paying over $700.00 for the very slightly modified M16 venison making it fairly easy to convert the early guns to full auto. All of this caused suspension of the gun being sold to the public for about a year. Additionally the first M16 battle guns did not have forward assist which created huge problems on battle field.

In my opinion there are a myriad of guns out there that are far better battle guns than any AR type rifle. That being said there probably isn't anything much better for private protection use where the gun would most likely would never see the riggers of war and that is why I carry one in my car. I have a red dot scoped carbon Bush Master with a 60 round magazine and a bump slide stock that fully loaded weighs about 7 pounds and it will lay down about 900 rounds a minute if I ask it too. For those who do not know what a bump slide stock is you need nothing more than to Google "bump slide" and it works as advertised.

Ron

[muddober]

Originally Posted by Albtraum

A rumored creature, like big foot, spotted throughout Mexico and Latin America, and southern US. Farmers find goats and cattle dismembered and blood drained. People that claim sightings say they are demonic looking creatures with spikes and red eyes.

I dare you to talk about my wife that way here on the forum, how rude?


Ron

[Trevor1837]

TFF, you may come for the knowledge, but you'll stay for the humor!

[Zhurh]

Three years back, the Indians down Ft Yukon (village couple hundred miles downriver) killed a young sow polar bear that was wandering through the village with an AR in 556 fmj; filled it through with holes but bear went down. I know some of the Indians down there and saw the picts they took.

We've killed a few caribou, wolves, and blk bear with AR's over the years, but fmj's just go in and out the other side; since we went to the 6.8's (hunting rounds) for caribou & bear, they all go down within 20-30 yards.

[RunningOnMT]

Originally Posted by muddober

HG&A, while I know you didn't make that dumb claim rather some drill Sergeant did it is wrong. While it is true that a wounded solder takes three out of the field but the gun and the cartridge was NOT designed to only wound and the statement defies logic because a wounded man can very often shoot back. The gun and the cartridge were designed so that the solder had a lighter weapon and could carry more ammo. The 223 was replacing the 308 which weighed almost twice as much. Same thing with the M14 weighing about 1.7 times that of the M16. Also one of the criteria is it had to shoot through both sides of a standard issue GI helmet at 500 yards, hardly making wounding to be a consideration.

There was so much folk lore about the gun and the cartridge when it first came out it was funny, most of which came from guys in the military who knew nothing about guns let alone internal ballistics. One of the best ones was that the bullet tumbled yet no one could explain the round holes it made in paper targets.

One of the most real issues when it first came out was that a new AR15 cost $163.50 in my local hardware store, serial number 9xx and the government was paying over $700.00 for the very slightly modified M16 venison making it fairly easy to convert the early guns to full auto. All of this caused suspension of the gun being sold to the public for about a year. Additionally the first M16 battle guns did not have forward assist which created huge problems on battle field.

In my opinion there are a myriad of guns out there that are far better battle guns than any AR type rifle. That being said there probably isn't anything much better for private protection use where the gun would most likely would never see the riggers of war and that is why I carry one in my car. I have a red dot scoped carbon Bush Master with a 60 round magazine and a bump slide stock that fully loaded weighs about 7 pounds and it will lay down about 900 rounds a minute if I ask it too. For those who do not know what a bump slide stock is you need nothing more than to Google "bump slide" and it works as advertised.

Ron

+1 Everytime I hear that nonsense it almost makes me angry. That would make about as much sense as going to war with rubber bullets. There are an awful lot of dead NVA who will be happy to know the 5.56X45 round isn't lethal.

[fuzebox40]

Frankly theres been too many people killed by a .22 to question the lethality of a .223!

BTW Jack, incase you wondering we were suspicious already.

[armoredman]

Obama has claimed to have sewn up the Chupacabra vote by offering amnesty...

[hawaiianbasshead]

the thing with 223 that alot of people who have not owned one consider is the fact that it plain has alot of projectile options, soft point, hollow point, ballistic tip stuff that I personally think must be against the rules of engagement or something that do unreal damage to game while hunting are the same rounds you would want for stoppage imo.

as stated fmj goes in and out so shot placement would be UTMOST important as you don't want anything wounded hunting you after you think it's been "stopped", for me, fmj is my plinking/target stuff. I have a box of hollow point and ballistic tip medium game stuff in the safe, as well as 22LR birdshot, mini mags, subsonics and other specialty 22 ammo lol. my ready mag for my old slide fire equipped mp15 was a kci 100 round drum loaded with 62gr softpoint hunting rounds, they mushroom so do real damage, 100 round drum because it has an infinite shelf life fully loaded with no damage and will just be able to be put in rifle and fired. I've since sold the gun with the mag but it was legit, had a green laser that would light up my house at night and you see the entire beam also in the dark it would shine MUCH further than I think a bmg 50 could even shoot, daytime you'd see the laser dot at maybe 50 yards in direct hawaii sunlight, it was rated for 100 but it made for a great point and shoot weapon imo with much longer range than a shotty.

mfs steel case soft points come to mind for an affordable stopping round. but with the ar you also have the modular platform you can keep a larger bore upper around for real stuff, 6.8 is a serious stopper SSA has ballistic/hunting ammo costs close to that of 308 at about or a little over $1/round but all good accurate hunting rounds cost about that from my research here locally and a little online so not a big deal imo. the ball stuff is more for plinking and target sighting for me. but I'm very confident I can easily do headshots at 50-80 yards with a red dot non magnified. that's just not my primary goal for an AR platform lol a 22 will be plenty lethal at that range imo. use some velocitor or aquila varmint rounds and it will stop anything human sized with a head shot under 100 yards

+1 definitely can have stoppage if you use rounds made for that purpose and nothing was made to stop like hunting rounds imo