Son of God

[Bobitis]

or not?

Jesus was born from the Immaculate conception. In my mind, that would make him half god, half human.

Why do some call him God? He's clearly not.

Discuss please.

[ka64]

Can God sit at his own right hand?

[Bobitis]

Originally Posted by ka64

Can God sit at his own right hand?

I would think not. Someone else could, but that does not make the someone equal.

[BlackEagle]

Originally Posted by ka64

Can God sit at his own right hand?

Understanding the idea of a triune God, (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) means that the Son of God can indeed sit at the right hand of God the Father. Psalm 110:1 uses that phrase:

The LORD says to my lord: “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.”

and it gets quoted in the New Testament in each of the Gospels, when Jesus was talking to the Jews about who He is.

Peter also used this phrase when he was addressing the Jews in Acts 2 starting verse 14, and Hebrews 1 uses the phrase in describing Christ's role.

Jesus was born from the Immaculate conception. In my mind, that would make him half god, half human.

Why do some call him God? He's clearly not.

Discuss please.

Sounds like some of my university and post grad exam questions!

I never thought about that before, but I suppose that would make him genetically half human, half God, which is consistant with Scripture: he was God made Man; One place in the Bible calls Jesus "Emmanuel", or"God with us". The idea is that God sent His Son to be with us, in a human body, as a human, to live with us, among us, to be hit with all the things a human can be hit with (temptation, blisters, headaches, hunger, pain, happiness, laughter, sadness, etc.) yet without falling for the temptations we fall for.

Hebrews 4:15 says it better than I can:

For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.

Verses 14 and 16, and Hebrews 5 are pretty good on this subject also.

I don't generally get into extended discussions, and I abhore theological arguments and will not get caught up in them. I do enjoy answering honest questions. Yours is a good question, Bob. I may come back with something more later.

[Bobitis]

Originally Posted by BlackEagle

Understanding the idea of a triune God, (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) means that the Son of God can indeed sit at the right hand of God the Father. Psalm 110:1 uses that phrase: and it gets quoted in the New Testament in each of the Gospels, when Jesus was talking to the Jews about who He is.

Peter also used this phrase when he was addressing the Jews in Acts 2 starting verse 14, and Hebrews 1 uses the phrase in describing Christ's role.




Sounds like some of my university and post grad exam questions!

I never thought about that before, but I suppose that would make him genetically half human, half God, which is consistant with Scripture: he was God made Man; One place in the Bible calls Jesus "Emmanuel", or"God with us". The idea is that God sent His Son to be with us, in a human body, as a human, to live with us, among us, to be hit with all the things a human can be hit with (temptation, blisters, headaches, hunger, pain, happiness, laughter, sadness, etc.) yet without falling for the temptations we fall for.

Hebrews 4:15 says it better than I can:

Verses 14 and 16, and Hebrews 5 are pretty good on this subject also.

I don't generally get into extended discussions, and I abhore theological arguments and will not get caught up in them. I do enjoy answering honest questions. Yours is a good question, Bob. I may come back with something more later.

Excellent response.

It just seems to me that sitting at the right hand isn't quite as good (not that the Christ isn't good). It's more like Jesus was/is a tool to get ta know the true God.
Please don't get all bunched up with 'tool' referance. It's NOT a trolling term.

The presumption that Jesus was a child of God does not make him an equal to the Almighty. My son is not my equal. He's half me, and half his mom. He will never be me.

[BlackEagle]

Originally Posted by Bobitis

Excellent response.

It just seems to me that sitting at the right hand isn't quite as good (not that the Christ isn't good). It's more like Jesus was/is a tool to get ta know the true God.
Please don't get all bunched up with 'tool' referance. It's NOT a trolling term.

The presumption that Jesus was a child of God does not make him an equal to the Almighty. My son is not my equal. He's half me, and half his mom. He will never be me.

I don't think you are not the trolling type, Bob.

Jesus Himself said "I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father except through me" in John 14:6.

I will never be my dad's equal, and my children will never be my equal. I agree completely. However, only Jesus was able to say "I and the Father are one" when he was talking with the Jews in John 10:30, and the Jews immediately tried to stone him because they understood him to mean he is God.

Understanding the Trinity is not easy, but it holds the key to understanding why Jesus could say that He is God.

I'm happy to keep answering questions; just won't be able to answer all, and will have to take a break sometime soon. I'm at least 5 hours ahead of you here.

[Bobitis]

'Jesus Himself said "I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father except through me" in John 14:6'.

^This is exactly why I brought up the discussion. ^

Jesus is clearly the subordinate. So why do some claim he is God?

[BlackEagle]

Originally Posted by Bobitis

So why do some claim he is God?

One of the ones who claim he is God is Jesus himself, when He said "I and the Father are one."

Scholars have written large hard-to understand books about the Trinity, but simply stated it is something like "three persons in one being" and "one being in three persons". Because it is God we are talking about, there is no easy human analogy to compare it with. All three (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) are one. I think understanding that will go a long way to answering your question.

Not fair, Bob; you're making me have to think. I can feel the wheels trying hard to turn...please be patient, I'll try to come up with answers; perhaps someone else will kick in with some ideas. It's been a while...I may be able to come up with a book or two to recommend--not the scholarly tomes but something humans can read. I think CS Lewis might have written something.

[jack404]

In the Trinitarian view, the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost share the one essence, substance or being. The central and crucial affirmation of Christian faith is that there is one savior, God, and one salvation, manifest in Jesus Christ, to which there is access only because of the Holy Spirit. The God of the Old Testament is still the same as the God of the New. In Christianity, statements about a single God are intended to distinguish the Hebraic understanding from the polytheistic view, which see divine power as shared by several beings, beings which can and do disagree and have conflicts with each other.

There are a number of passages and teaching in The Good Book that show us that Christ God and the Holy Spirit are one , maybe with my physic's background i see it simpler than most , for me its no problem to see Christ God and the Holy Spirit as part of each other and as part of the whole at the same time , but multiversial theory is something i'm getting good at

[One Shot]

When I read "The Shack" it had me shaking my head and wondering if I should be reading it at all but in the end and in retrospect, I think it did a good job of explaining God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit in non-theological terms.

The Black Lady had me going for awhile but it does work out in the end so read it all.

It is great to ask about things that don't make sense to you. Being a seeker is a good place to be in God's eyes.

[RunningOnMT]

Bob,

The Trinity is one of the hardest concepts to wrap your head around. In fact it's impossible for our mortal minds to understand the immortal. That is something the believer accepts on faith because God said it, and that settles it.

You know I guess I didn't pay close enough attention back in the church where I received my early Christian education because it wasn't well into adulthood that I realized that the Bible teaches that Jesus Christ existed eternally as a seperate person from God the father. I understood that Jesus was God, but didn't realize there was a Son, until Christ was born on earth.

I have questions myself. For example if God is a spirit, what is the difference between God the father and the Holy Spirit? If Christ existed eternally as a seperate person of the Holy Trinity, how is it that He can be the Son of God, and what was the distinction between the two? I mean, how Can the Father and the Son have both always existed?

When I dwell on these things for too long I must admit my mortal mind starts to lead toward disbelief. It is then that I have to consider the even harder to accept concept of existence without a creator, then also to simply read the Words of Christ Himself that convinces me He is who He said He was. People acknowledge and scripture confirms that Jesus was a good man. Would a truly good man be a liar?

It is my firm belief that someday all our questions will be answered, one way or another.

[ampaterry]

I think a lot of the problem with understanding the Trinity lies in the language we are accustomed to using.

This being who we acknowledge as the supreme power in the universe, we call "God".

Jesus calls his father "God".

And confusion sets in.

"God" is the being.

Jesus Christ is one facet - one office - of that being.
The Father is another facet or office of that being.
The Holy Ghost is the third facet or office of that being.

Equate it to this:

I am a human being named "Terry".

Now forgive me for speaking of myself in the third person, which is something I HATE, but necessare for this example.

Terry is a Pastor.
Terry is an Engineer.
Terry is a Husband.

Is the Pastor only 1/3 of Terry?
Is the Husband the same as the Engineer?
Is Terry greater than the Engineer?

Do you see it?
Terry is the being -
the Pastor, the Engineer, the Husband, are the three FACETS or OFFICES of Terry.

So God is the being we are dealing with.
God the Son, Jesus, is one facet of that being.
God the Father is another facet of that being.
God the Holy Ghost is another facet of that being.

Each of the offices is different than the other two, yet each is God.

The Trinity is one of the most difficult concepts with which we deal, IMHO, Bob -

[tcox4freedom]

I agree Terry.
We are limited in our understanding & knowledge. This makes certain topics very difficult to discuss. Our carnal minds just have difficulty grasping things of the SPIRIT.

This is why Faith is so important. In some things we must place our TRUST in his word. There are many, MANY scriptures that support the Trinity and that claim Jesus & God to be one; not the list of these is John 1:1-

John 1:1 (ASV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 (NKJV)
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

We also see in the book of Philippians that Jesus did not see "equality with God as something that could be grasp.

Philippians 2:4-11 (ASV)
4 not looking each of you to his own things, but each of you also to the things of others.
5 Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men;
8 and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, becoming obedient even unto death, yea, the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore also God highly exalted him, and gave unto him the name which is above every name;
10 that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven and things on earth and things under the earth,
11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

But at the same time Jesus said that "HE" and the "FATHER" are one.

John 10:30 (NKJV)
30 "I and My Father are one."

Though we must take some things by FAITH & not understanding, I don't think this is a difficult thing to comprehend; "IF" we look at it through the "SPIRIT".

These things are NOT meant for the "carnal" mind to understand.

1 Corinthians 2:13-14 (NKJV)
13 These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

-

[BlackEagle]

Bob, from what Terry and others are saying, and from what the Bible says, can you accept that Jesus is God?

That's the first step.

Thanks for asking the original question. It's a good discussion.

[ryan42]

Originally Posted by BlackEagle

Bob, from what Terry and others are saying, and from what the Bible says, can you accept that Jesus is God?

That's the first step.

Thanks for asking the original question. It's a good discussion.

hey Bill I know a fella who would like to be in this discussion,His name is Roy Blackwood do you know of him?

[Python]

Genesis 1:26..Then God said, "Let US make man in OUR image, in OUR likeness". Note US & OUR= Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

[Double D]

Originally Posted by Bobitis

or not?

Jesus was born from the Immaculate conception. In my mind, that would make him half god, half human.

Why do some call him God? He's clearly not.

Discuss please.

He is absolutely God.

[BlackEagle]

Originally Posted by ryan42

hey Bill I know a fella who would like to be in this discussion,His name is Roy Blackwood do you know of him?

I believe we've met on occasion.
To my understanding he would be a good resource. Just a minor detail: he doesn't do computers.

[Archie]

The "Jesus isn't God" claim or argument is a very old heresy.

It dates from just after the Ascension of Jesus and has continued to the present.

One of the arguments is as you presented; if Jesus is half human and half Divine, then Jesus is a demi-god, much as Hercules and others of the Greek and Roman pantheon. This is based on a misconception: Jesus had no human father. And no, his human mother doesn't really apply to the argument either; God caused the pregnancy through a supernatural action; Jesus was not the result of anything close to a normal inception. (Or abnormal, like Zeus as a swan inseminating Leda.)

Jesus is completely human and completely Divine. While on Earth, He surrendered His Divine power and relied upon God - we call the Father - for all His needs. Jesus was subservient to the Father as that was the pre-arranged plan. And even that phrase is limited - the plan was Eternal; God exists not in time but in Eternity.

When Jesus talked with the Pharisees, He said, "Before Abraham was, I am." (John (Gospel) 8:58) This phrase "I AM" is the same phrase used by God to identify Himself to Pharoah through Moses. It is the Hebrew spelling of the unspoken name of God. That's why the Pharisees wanted to kill Jesus immediately; by their standards, He claimed to be God.

Later in the New Testament, Paul in Romans (ch 1, the first paragraph) identified Jesus as (verse 3) "...concerning his Son who was a descendant of David with reference to the flesh, 1:4 who was appointed the Son-of-God-in-power according to the Holy Spirit by the resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord." The Resurrection demonstrates Jesus' Godhood.

The Old Testament speaks of the Triune God. There is the 'Father' God in Heaven who is spirit, then there is the 'Physical' God who walks in the Garden of Eden and wrestles Jacob; then there is the 'Spirit of God' who descended on the prophets from time to time. All God, all markedly different 'persons'.

<deleted>

[H-D]

I was raised a oneness pentacostal, and have been to many other denominations over the years I have heard countless arguements about the godhead, I was on the debate team at school qt debated the godhead regularly, I had all the students and 1 teacher stumped by the vast amount of trinitarian scripture in the bible but I don't pretend to be able to comprehend the mysteries of Godliness ,

[Python]

People who don't believe don't want to believe, so they "refuse" to believe. Even when Christ is on the throne of David ruling during the Millennium and there is 1,000 years of absolute truth and knowledge is complete, people will still refuse to believe. There are no excuses, just choices, it's man's rebellious sin nature plain and simple. God makes this very clear in Revelation 20:7 for those still having doubts.

[tcox4freedom]

As Christians we must always defer to the "WORD" as the authority. When doing so, we need to look at the Bible in it's entirety. We must also be careful NOT to listen to people who pick & choose scriptures that lead to inerrant beliefs and confusion.

It is ultimately up to the individual christian to study the WORD in it's entirety. For when one takes the Bible as a whole and studies under the "power" & "discernment" of the Holy Spirit there will be no confusion; because the Bible tells us the "SPIRIT" will guide us into "all" TRUTH.

-

[carver]

For me it's simple. I am a triune being, I have a body, a soul, and a sprit. Just as God has, we are made in his image.

Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

We could go on, and on, from the Old Testament to the New. Jesus is God!

[CJ_56]

To me a couple of verses prove that Jesus is far more than just a man or even a half man. This is in addition to the fact that a person's lineage comes from his father which in the case of Jesus was the Father of course so he was of God and from God and was God in his birthright.

But Jesus existed long before His earthly birth. A few verses point to this. First look at John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. "I am" is of course the name God gave to the Israelites as His name. And here is Jesus saying, "Before Abraham was, I am." That is Jesus claiming to be God right there. He existed outside of this universe and in fact He created this universe. That brings me to the second verse I think is important. John 1:1 says, "In the beginning was the Word." And of course Jesus says He is the Word. And in John we are told that the Word created the universe. In Genesis we are told that God created the universe so that can only mean that God the Father and the Word are one being. But even then they were separate. People have struggled over the quote where God says He will create man in "our" image. That has led to lots of debate about whether Jehovah or Yahweh (same being) was the only god. To me the answer is quite clear. It was the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit having this discussion. That's why the pronoun is plural.

There are lots of other instances where there are hints and proof that God exists in 3 beings all the same yet all different. From saying I and the Father are one to saying the Holy Spirit would come into the world and give men knowledge of the true nature of Jesus I just don't think it can be disputed that the Trinity is real.

There are many, many different directions this discussion can go. I don't want to step on any toes here but some of the religions that claim there is no Trinity are clearly not Christian (like Islam for instance). There are others some of whom make fantastic claims that don't jibe with what the Bible actually teaches. I don't think this is the forum for that discussion because some people have been taught since birth to believe a certain way and IMO only the Holy Spirit can open their eyes. In fact that is clearly stated in the New Testament.

[Appliancedude]

Jesus is the son of God.

Matthew 19:17, Mark 10:18
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Matthew 27:46, Mark 15:34
My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Mark 16:19
So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

John 8:40
But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God.

John 14:28
My Father is greater than I.

John 20:17
I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Acts 17:31
Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
+
1 Corinthians 15:28
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Colossians 3:1
Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 3:21-22
It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone inot heaven and is at God's right hand