Justice Roy Moore Fired

MONTGOMERY, Ala. (Nov. 13) -- Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore was removed from office Thursday for refusing to obey a federal court order to move his Ten Commandments monument from the rotunda of the state courthouse.

The state Court of the Judiciary unanimously imposed the harshest penalty possible after a one-day trial in which Moore said his refusal was a moral and lawful acknowledgment of God. Prosecutors said Moore's defiance, left unchecked, would harm the judicial system.

Moore, a champion of religious conservatives, had been suspended since August but was allowed to collect his $170,000 annual salary. He was halfway through his six-year term.

Speaking immediately after the decision, a defiant Moore told supporters he had only acknowledged God as is done in other official procedures and documents.

''I have absolutely no regrets. I have done what I was sworn to do,'' he said, drawing applause.

''It's about whether or not you can acknowledge God as a source of our law and our liberty. That's all I've done. I've been found guilty,'' he said.

Moore said he had consulted with his attorneys and with political and religious leaders and would make an announcement next week which he said ''could alter the course of this country.'' He did not elaborate. He could appeal to the Alabama Supreme Court.

Under Thursday's decision, the governor will appoint someone to serve the rest of Moore's term, which expires in 2006.

Presiding Judge William Thompson said the nine-member court had no choice in its decision after Moore willfully and publicly ignored the federal court order. ''The chief justice placed himself above the law,'' Thompson said.

A federal judge had ruled the monument was an unconstitutional promotion of religion by the government. A federal appeals court upheld the ruling, and the U.S. Supreme Court refused to hear Moore's appeal. The monument eventually was rolled to a storage room on instructions from the eight associate justices.

The Judicial Inquiry Commission filed the complaint about Moore's defiance with the Court of the Judiciary, an ad hoc panel of judges, lawyers and others appointed variously by judges, legal leaders and the governor and lieutenant governor.




On Thursday Moore said he had no animosity toward the court. But, he said, unless the states stand up, ''public acknowledgment of God will be taken from us. In God we trust will be taken from our money and one nation under God from our pledge.''

Greg Sealy, head of the Sitting at His Feet Fellowship in Montgomery, an inner-city mission, said it was the ''darkest day'' he has seen in America since he moved to the United States from Barbados 23 years ago.

''They stole my vote. The judiciary stole my vote. I voted for Roy Moore,'' he said.

The prosecutor, Attorney General Bill Pryor, on Wednesday termed Moore's defiance ''utterly unrepentant behavior'' that warranted removal from office.



The chief justice testified he was fulfilling his duties and promises to voters when he refused to follow the court order.
Moore, 56, testified that he followed his conscience and did nothing to violate judicial ethics.

''To acknowledge God cannot be a violation of the Canons of Ethics. Without God there can be no ethics,'' Moore testified.

He had also reiterated his stance that, given another chance to fulfill the court order, he again would refuse to do so. When one panelist, Circuit Judge J. Scott Vowell of Birmingham, asked Moore what he would do with the monument if he were returned to office, the chief justice said he had not decided, but added: ''I certainly wouldn't leave it in a closet, shrouded from the public.''

In closing arguments, Assistant Attorney General John Gibbs said Moore's public refusal to obey a court order ''undercuts the entire workings of the judicial system.''

''What message does that send to the public, to other litigants? The message it sends is: If you don't like a court order, you don't have to follow it,'' he said.

It was as a circuit court judge in Gadsden in the 1990s that Moore became known as the ''Ten Commandments Judge,'' after he was sued by the American Civil Liberties Union for opening court sessions with prayer and for displaying a hand carved Ten Commandments display behind his bench.

He said Wednesday that when he ran for chief justice in 2000, his entire campaign was based on ''restoring the moral foundation of law.'' He added that it took him eight months to personally design the monument, which he helped move into the judicial building in the middle of the night on July 31, 2001.

Jones asked Moore why he didn't just go ahead and move the monument as Thompson ordered.

''It would have violated my conscience, violated my oath of office and violated every rule of law I had sworn to uphold,'' Moore said.

it's a sad day folks...

[Marlin]

I wouldn't say, "Fired!", Rick.

Technically, the people hired Roy when they elected him; it would take the people to fire him.....

That was AOL's heading Marlin, along with,

"Thou Shalt Not Keep Your Job" ...

Go figure!

[1952Sniper]

It is really scary to me, the way people in this country are turning against Christianity. I never in my wildest dreams thought that it would be so dangerous to be an outspoken Christian. I remember my mother (an ordained Methodist minister) reading me stories when I was a child from Revelations, about how in the end days Christians would be persecuted. But I figured they were just stories. Little did I know...

I heard on the radio this morning that the schools are allowed to put up a Jewish Menorah in the school, as well as Muslim religious holiday decorations. But Christians are not allowed to put up a nativity scene display.

Are we at the beginning of the end? Are we seeing the signs of the true holocaust? With the way this world is going, I'm starting to think so. Right now, it's very unpopular to be a Christian in certain places. And we're seeing the opening salvos of legal actions against people for promoting Christianity. It won't be much longer until we're being persecuted in full force.

[keppler]

What ever happened to " By the people, for the people" ?

[Marlin]

Roy never minced any words. The fight was NOT specifically the Ten Commandments, but, rather, Constitutional law and States Rights, the basic right granted by the Constitution for the states to handle EVERYTHING not specifically delegated to the Federal folks.

This is only further sign that the Constitution of the United States is under constant attack, and, for the time being, it appears successful on the part of those who would destroy us. This is the very point we have been trying to make on the Forum about the importance of our being active and getting into the fight to save the Republic.

[Hydra Shok]

Roy Moore wasn't "fired" for not removing the Commandments, but rather for disobeying a court order to remove the monument. When he was ordered to remove it, he more or less said....Naaaa, I don't like that, I'm not going to do it. If Moore ordered someone in his coutroom to say go to counceling, and that person said he wasn't going to go, that person could be held in contempt of court and possibly face jail time. So if a judge is held in contempt of court for not following a ruling, is this judge above the law? Regardless of what he was standing up for, I think he went about it the wrong way. Don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying the Ten Commandments can't or shouldn't be displayed, but the law is the law and Roy Moore broke the law so he should face the concequences.

[SouthernMoss]

The point Judge Moore was trying to make was that the court didn't have the authority to tell him to remove the monument. He didn't break the law; the court broke the law by stepping beyond their authority and making a ruling that they had no right to make.

[1952Sniper]

Right, SM. Roy Moore didn't break a law. He decided to ignore an order by the court which overstepped its bounds. There is no basis in law for them to tell him to remove that display, and even less for them to remove him from office over it.

This is a clear case of judges thinking they can make up the law as they go along, and force others to abide by it.

If it were all that simple, there would not be a problem in the 1st place.

Fired?, call it what you like but, Judge Roy is without a job and factors are wanting him disbarred.

IMO, Roy did break the law... what law?
He disobeyed the courts ruling, and the outcome of it was/is no different than for anyone else.

Now the court stands accoutable...

I hope and pray, he's victourios if/when he appeals.

[1952Sniper]

IMO, Roy did break the law... what law?
He disobeyed the courts ruling, and the outcome of it was/is no different than for anyone else.

Since when is a random court ruling equal to law?

If a judge decides that it's illegal to wear pants, are they going to arrest me for it?

A judge's decision has to be based on current written law. They can't just make up the law as they go along.

IMO, Roy did break the law... what law?

it's about accountability, will the means justify the end?

This is what I'm waiting with baited breath to see...

and yep, if you are told by a court of law not to wear pants, and do, you too may find yourself locked-up. Or they may give you an option, something other than pants, where if you agree to the option and then wear pants... opppssss locked-up again. hehehe

in other words, bureaucracy!

[frosty]

I liked what SoMo said.

In this country there are countless hundreds of thousands of individuals who are not Christian. They have come to this country to have the freedom to follow their religion as they please with out the Govt. stepping on their beliefs. They like being in a country that will uphold the law even if it upsets people. The checks and balances system is at work here. I like to see it working for all of us to keep the playing field even. If one form of belief gains the upper hand then the rest must push harder.

Fairness is the order of the day...........our country is made up of all nations and peoples.......respect one another and peace will be kept.

[Hydra Shok]

If Roy Moore had just taken the monument down and gone about it another way he would still be employed and this wouldn't have gotten to the point it has now. I applaud the man for standing up for what he believes in, but when you get a court order to do something and you refuse to do so....well then you suffer the consequences I reckon. He could have gone about his appeals a more "legal" ( for lack of a better word ) way. By the way, the taxpaying Alabamians, including myself, are now having to pay for his legal costs . If he wants to fight it, let him pay for it.

[djohns6]

Did anyone see the press conference after he left the courtroom ?
He made me proud to be one of his supporters .

[Marlin]

I think that most are missing the point or the main issue involved in the argument by the Attorney General and in the decision by the Judicial Inquiry.

Justice Moore did not suffer his fate because of the Ten Commandments nor did he suffer the fate due to the unconstitutional basis for his taking issue in the first place. Further, the Judicial Inquiry did not consider in any way, shape or fashion the matter of the constitutionality of the issue, state's rights or otherwise, or whether there was a separation of church and state. The sole issue was whether or not there was a violation of the Canons of Judicial Ethics.

When Justice Moore chose to defy the order of a higher court, being that of the Supreme Court of the United States who, by its not accepting certiorari, affirmed the lower court ruling, it was a flagrant violation of the Canons of Judicial Ethics. That was the sole issue and is why the decision was unanimous. I am familiar or acquainted with several who served on that court of inquiry and know that many were in sympathy with Justice Moore insofar as the constitutional issue on either separation or states rights is concerned. However, each was disturbed by the flagrant violation of the ethical standards required of any judge or justice in the State of Alabama. Their decision was on that issue and that alone.

Those of you who know me or have followed my thoughts on this Forum for many months know that my interpretation of the Constitutional issues are identical with those of Justice Moore. That does not change the facts as determined by the Judicial Inquiry Commission or Court, however. Each of you should also know by now where my Christian loyalties lie - - -

- - - - - - s q u a r e l y in the identical place as my friend and colleague, Roy, and his great supporter, Jim Kennedy of the Coral Ridge Ministeries!

[stash247]

God bless Roy Moore!
Got a hundred dollar bill? How 'bout a five, or a single? Then, look on a dime, or a penny. IN GOD WE TRUST.
Ain't this the same dude?
You can bray like a jackass 'til the cows come home, but the man did not do anything wrong.
I'm all for the separation of church and state, but definitely NOT for the abolishment of one, at the expense of the other.
If you don't like God, perhaps a move to a rice eating country is in order; of course, if you don't like rice, it would be nice if you like really warm weather, like the middle east.
This country was founded on a concept of tolerance, not compliance, and consequently, is very diverse.
If one assumes the IQ of a bug existed in the voters who elected Judge Moore, then the courts have effectively negated the electoral process.
Even if I don't agree, entirely, with his politics, (I just happen to agree, entirely!) still, those who live and work where he does, do.
A classic example of your Government, Here to Serve You, Like it or Not.
In my humble opinion, it's total Bullshit. Let Alabama run Alabama, since D.C. has already more problems than it can manage.

[sig_230]

Thank God they threw him out. Shoulda thrown him in jail.

[Evilahole]

I still have to sit back and chuckle at comments these zelots use to justify their position:

I'm all for the separation of church and state, but definitely NOT for the abolishment of one, at the expense of the other

I have not heard a single account of a church being closed down nor of a single person being jailed or beaten for his faith nor of any religion being banned. I have heard of no christians being fed to lions for quite a long time.

If you don't like God, perhaps a move to a rice eating country is in order; of course, if you don't like rice, it would be nice if you like really warm weather, like the middle east.

This country was founded on a concept of tolerance, not compliance, and consequently, is very diverse.

HAHAHA!!! Typical contradictory rambling...in one breath shouts "get out of my country if you don't believe the way I do" and in the very next breath describe how this country was founded on a concept of "tolerance". If this country was any more tolerant I might actually be able to walk around and be accepted for being an athiestic white male who has never owned a slave instead of being labeled as a heathen and a white devil.

And I still can't get an answer to a hypothetical question I've put forth to every zelot who stands on his soap box over this ruling:
If I were a Satanist would YOU be willing to let me post the "eleven satanic rules of the earth" on "your" courthouse wall?
Why not? As long as we're putting religious dogma on the walls of government buildings, who are you to say that your ways are any more relevant than anyone elses?
And don't try that tired argument of "our country was founded on the 10 commandments". Only 2 "commandments" are actually law, so by my calculations that's only 20%. How can our entire country be founded on 20% of a doctrine and we decided to ignore the other 80%?
Is it not enough that you can visit your church any day you please? Or do you believe that you have the right to use government to force others to believe as you?

[stash247]

No contradiction, as I can see. If you don't like God, perhaps a Bhuddist, Taoist, or Moslem environment would be more inviting;
the deep south is a strong Traditional Christian area.
As a resident there, you would certainly be within your rights to seek posting of the 11 satanist whatevers, in a school, the courthouse,or where ever else. Community support may, however, be somewhat lacking.
In Roy Moore's case, the community almost unanimously supported him and the sculpture; it is no business of the Federal government. They have enough problems in DC to last a lifetime, without any meddling in states' rights.
That Moore was crosswise with the canon of judicial ethics seems anti-climactic; that issue is a fight about how, when, where to argue; The sculpture and it's propriety is the fundamental cause. If we taught more of the Ten Commandments, and less debate in our schools and homes, we'd need many less courthouses.
Even as an athiest, EvilA, you must agree that the commandments only outline rules common to nearly all cultures, rules that are about WHAT's RIGHT, sot what' LEAGAL.
The Second World War was legal, according to the courts of Germany, but was it right?

[Evilahole]

Perhaps you watch too much ABC or CNN news, but we do not live in a Democracy where the "overwhelming support" sets the rules. We live in a Democratic Republic and are suppose to be a country run by the rule of law.
As far as living in the south, I know about religion here...I was raised as a southern baptist and I know all to well the furry displayed if you DARE to question the "word of god".
You do not have the right to demand the teaching of creationalism in school any more than I have the right to demand the teaching of darwinism in sunday school.
You do not have the right to force your religion into government any more than I have the right to use government to banish religion.
Government run by religious law is a theocracy, much like that warm weather "godless" region called the middle east that you refered to.

[Shizamus]

The American Inquisition Has Begun
By Chuck Baldwin
November 15, 2003


I was in attendance at Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore's trial in
Montgomery this past Wednesday and Thursday. "Trial" is not
really the proper word, however. A better word is "inquisition."

There was never a doubt that the "judges" had made up their minds
to remove Chief Justice Moore from the bench before the
proceedings ever began. They sat like wooden Indians throughout
the trial, taking few notes and, with only one exception, making no
comments, and asking no questions.

Furthermore, Moore's attorneys had some 20 pieces of evidentiary
material that they could have presented. This was denied. There
were also several credible witnesses, including former Alabama
Governor Fob James, that could have been called to testify on
Moore's behalf. This was also denied.

The trial took upon itself a distinctive tone of inquisition when
Alabama Attorney General Bill Pryor questioned Chief Justice
Moore. Here is an exchange between Pryor and Moore taken from
the official transcript of the trial:

Pryor: Mr. Chief Justice? And your understanding is that the
Federal court ordered that you could not acknowledge God; isn't
that right?

Moore: Yes.

Pryor: And if you resume your duties as Chief Justice after this
proceeding, you will continue to acknowledge God as you have
testified that you would today---

Moore: That's right.

Pryor: ---no matter what any other official says?

Moore: Absolutely. (Chief Justice Moore then elaborated.)

Pryor: The only point I am trying to clarify, Mr. Chief Justice, is
not why, but only that, in fact, if you do resume your duties as
Chief Justice, you will continue to do that [acknowledge God]
without regard to what any other official says; isn't that right?

Moore: (He responds by listing numerous examples of the public
acknowledgement of God, and concluded answering the question.)
I think you must.

Does any reader of this exchange not see what Bill Pryor was
demanding? He was demanding that Chief Justice Roy Moore not
acknowledge God! Pryor did not even refer to the Ten
Commandments. He repeatedly asked Moore if he would continue
to acknowledge God. To acknowledge God was deemed an
impermissible activity and for this Roy Moore was removed as
Alabama Chief Justice.

Watching Bill Pryor examine Roy Moore in such a fashion
reminded me of the movie "Luther." It was shockingly similar to
the moment when the great reformer stood in front of the Roman
council and heard the inquisitor shout, "Will you recant? Will you
recant? Will you recant?"

It is more than interesting that Bill Pryor asked Chief Justice
Moore three times whether he would continue to acknowledge
God, because Satan asked the Lord Jesus three times to fall down
and worship him, and Simon Peter denied Christ three times. There
does seem to be a pattern!

The point that all Americans must understand is that Chief Justice
Roy Moore was removed from the bench, not for committing any
crime, not for participating in unethical conduct, and not even for
posting the Ten Commandments in the Alabama Judicial Building.
He was removed from office for acknowledging God!

Americans must understand that people such as judge Myron
Thompson and Alabama Attorney General Bill Pryor actually
believe that the public acknowledgement of God is illegal activity.
Even more dangerous, they believe that a federal judge's order, not
the U.S. Constitution, is the supreme law of the land. Pryor said as
much during the trial.

There is yet another similarity of Roy Moore's trial to a Dark
Ages-style inquisition. Not only was he commanded to recant his
public acknowledgment of God, the trial itself was conducted out
of public view. No television cameras or recording devices were
allowed. Obviously, the inquisitors did not want the American
people to see and hear for themselves what took place inside the
Alabama Judicial Building on that day.

However, reminiscent of Dark Ages-style punishment, while the
trial took place in obscurity, TV cameras were allowed in the
courtroom the next day when the verdict to remove Moore from
the bench was announced, so all America could witness the
"hanging."

The removal of Chief Justice Roy Moore as Alabama Supreme
Court Chief Justice is a travesty of justice, a reproach upon our
national honor, and an insult to the voters of Alabama! It is also
painfully obvious that since the American inquisition has begun, it
is now time for an American reformation!

The American reformation should begin with the voters of
Alabama electing Roy Moore to the highest office of that state and
by the American people electing men and women to Congress who
will immediately put a stop to these black-robed inquisitors!

Let the reformation begin!

© Chuck Baldwin

[Marlin]

I am awaiting with baited breath the announcement Roy says he will make at a news conference this week. I suspect that we have just begun to hear from and of him and that he will be a large part of the future in Alabama and in this great republic of ours.

[Evilahole]

I think your right Marlin...I can see the country's first red-neck theocracy state coming soon.
From a state that has made sex toys illegal...it's not enough that they've invaded their citizen's bed rooms...now they want to envade their religious beliefs too.
Won't it be a great day to be an American?