Colt guys need help Ientifing one

[Little Rooster]

The first table at the gun show this weekend had a Colt revolver that caught my eye. Possibly a cartridge conversion. I will post some not so detailed photo's of it. Shot from a poor quality phone. Briefly the frame was brass completely circling the cylinder much like a Remmington. The frame was notched but not gated. The cylinder would be removed for loading. The barrel address was Colt Firearms NewYork not Hartford Ct. We think it was a 32 long but may have been a 36 converted to a 38 colt or S&W round. Not positive and neither was the seller. This was a pocket size like the Colt Police models of the day. I will ad more details if I can remember. Since I will not be going back today, the photo's I have are the only ones. Thanks for any replies

[TRAP55]

That is one Frankenstein pistol, I can't even ID the parts used to make it. Whoever did it, was good at it though.

[Hammerslagger]

Need clearer detailed pics. I would strongly suspect that it is not a Colt product.

[H-D]

looks like a colt bp frame(modified) with an 1860 model bbl (modified) with some strange bits put on it

[Hammerslagger]

Yes, looks like a percussion open top frame modified by someone with a piece of brass (cast or Machined??) to make it a close top frame. How does the barrel fit into the brass addition? We need more clear detailed pictures.

[Little Rooster]

sorry the gunshow was over the weekend...It was what my cheap @$$ phone produced. Frankenstien is what I am getting from others at another forum. I know I've looked at thousands of colts in person on line and in books. I have never seen anything like it.

[Hammerslagger]

Well, since you seem to have significant experience with old Colts, I will share this concept with you.

You could have a one of a kind prototype pistol modified at Colt or elsewhere. However, something can be so rare as to be effectively unknown. Thus, often there is almost no market for such items in some collectible arenas, that include guns and knives. {Coins and rare paintings are another matter. Collector experts, will declare a almost certain forgery genuine, and then a speculator/dealer/collector will pay a Million or more US Dollars for it! Insane, or is it, when it gets resold at a huge profit a few years later? Kind of like the recent US real estate boom.}

For example relative to knives, when I was a boy my father was given a large quantity of assorted old ammo that dated from the turn of the Century to about 1934. Going through some of the loose and mixed material I stumbled across two unusual 7X57 Mauser cartridges. One was in near pristine condition, one was somewhat damaged.

The cartridges initially caught my attention because they were nickle plated brass with a cupro-nickle, round nose, FMJ bullet. Further investigation revealed that they bore a commercial Remington headstamp, and the primers had a neat about 3/64" offset hole in them. Further investigation revealed that they were special factory made non-bullets that held about a 1.75" mass produced (by stamping and grinding) penknife blade blade. In other word they were Remington made (or contracted) bullet knives that functioned like a reversible pocket pencil that was common in the 1950's.

Thirty years ago, I contacted anybody and everybody, that I could find, who knew anything about old Remington knives. No one had any knowledge whatsoever of them and no serious monetary interest in them.

{Best assessment is that these knives were made as advertising/goodwill handouts for the Bannana Republics armies that used 7X57 mm, and that Remington wanted to sell to in the early 1920's. Generals likely received gifts of Remington 51 pistols and the bullet-knives. Non-coms likely got just the bullet-knives. Very few of these "handout" items would have had any US distribution.}

In any case, I hope that you got your revolver for a good price. You migt want to try partially or completely dissembling it and pay close attention to how the brass addition was manufactured and or marked.

Hope some of this is useful.

[Jim K]

Quite a good discussion, and enlightening, but rather wasted. The "gun" is a dummy, made for display in "Western" steak houses and the like. It is cast zinc; it doesn't fire anything and was never intended to.

Those guns are not really cheap; they sell for around $80 if you check restaurant supply houses or sellers of display pieces.

Jim

[Hammerslagger]

Interesting.

[Jim K]

FWIW, here are a couple of sites selling such replica guns:

http://www.collectorsarmoury.com

http://replicagunsswords.com

Some are fairly good and even capable of deceiving the inexperienced.

Jim

[Little Rooster]

Jim K this one cycled properly with a working firing pin. Not to say it wasn't hashed together for display purposes. It was not cast zinc. I have seen the ones offered in the links. The Fort in Lincoln Ne. use to sell them also.
This more likely someones project. I did not buy it not knowing a 100% what it was. With no way of verifiing it. However I found it interesting and have the dealers number.


Hammerslagger I see a old Bullet knife every couple years. When I was kid they were more common. My dad may of had one, he was a bit of a picker. Always had some kind of trade or deal going. I got the last of his knifes and his rifle still.

[FlashBang]

The rear portion of the frame looks like that of the Type 7, but I've never seen one converted from percussion to cartridge. Early Colts were often stamped NY until Sam Colt moved everything to Hartford. To bad you couldn't get the SN off it, Colt keeps good records. :-)

[Jim K]

OK, it is a super secret experimental model made by John Browning and Sam Colt for George Patton. Probably worth millions.

Jim

[berto64]

Sounds about right to me!