Newbie and Mistake - The Firearms Forum

CBirnley · 04-29-2012, 07:16 PM

Well by the title, you know how this is going to go...on the plus side, I can still type, which means this mistake could have been MUCH worse...

I am looking for feedback on what went wrong with a reload.

I am new to reloading, watched Hornady's videos (having purchased their AP LnL, watched YouTube vids with Hornady footage, went to the Hodgdon site, measured the powder (tared with the pan), verified several times I was throwing the correct amt of powder (measured and Powder Copped) measured the C.O.L (multiple times), spoke with a friend who has several years of experience (verified that I was doing everything correctly), and was VERY VERY LUCKY! I am NOT a fan of relying on luck...

.40 XDm
CCI small primer
.40 Winchester case (either was new or only once fired)
155 Gr JHP Remington
Hodgdon Titegroup (5.4 grs - starting load)

Pics are attached...this mistake was way too close to be tragic...

What happened? and how do I ensure to NEVER do this again?

gun-nut · 04-29-2012, 07:45 PM

Is it posibal that you put the primer in the wrong way?

rcairflr · 04-29-2012, 07:53 PM

If everything you said is true, than this should not have happened. The powder charge is within the safe limits.

Are you absolutely sure, you did not throw a double charge of powder into that case.

jlloyd73 · 04-29-2012, 07:57 PM

Ouch............I am glad you aren't hurt. That is my reloading nightmare.

Frogtop · 04-29-2012, 07:58 PM

Was this the first round that you fired? If not, approx how many rds fired before this one? Did any sound "funny" or feel differently? Reg or mag primers (can't imagine making that much of difference). Any chance there was something in the bbl? Did you physically look in the cases after powder charging for any that looked strange?

CBirnley · 04-29-2012, 08:11 PM

Gun-nut: I didn't think I could do that with an AP. My assumption is that the Loader would only load in the correct orientation.

Rcairflyer: I would have thought the Powder Cop would have caught it. As nervous as I was about this being my first batch of rounds...anything is possible, but man, I even recall weighing the finished round and they were fairly close.

Jlloyd73: yeah, well hopefully I'm done with this experience. I will say that firing the next round of reloads will be uhmmmm, well the pucker factor will be high.

Frog top: I had fired about 28 rounds prior to this event and felt no issues. Regular primers...as for the barrel, there was nothing in it afterword. In the one pic, you can see the case inside the barrel and in another pic (with the toothpick) you can see the base of the case (sorry for not knowing the technical term). It appears as though the case base separated from the case, causing all the pressure to build up and take the path of least resistance. Mi did not look I the cases, but probably weighed every other round...,again, being new and nervous.

I need to find out what I did wrong and get back on the bike, horse, motorcycle, whatever mode of transportation you choose.

Thank you for your thoughs...keep'em coming. Oh and btw, had I not had my shooting glasses on...this could have gone REALLY bad, I felt the blast.

gdmoody · 04-29-2012, 08:31 PM

Rapid fire or slow fire? Was the previous round a squib that caused an obstruction in the barrel???

CBirnley · 04-29-2012, 08:36 PM

Gdmoody: it was under a rapid fire situation. If a squib was the issue, would it and the next bullet remain in the barrel? As I'm new, a squib is a result of an underpowered load, correct?

76Highboy · 04-29-2012, 08:40 PM

CBirnley · 04-29-2012, 08:47 PM

76Highboy: no to the manipulation or moving the case back a step. Regarding the Titegroup, I will try a double load and see if it spills over or not, if not, I would have thought the Powder Cop would have shown the larger load? I did not check the headspace, however I did ensure the COL was correct on about every other load.

Thank you for the feedback and keep it coming!

gdmoody · 04-29-2012, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBirnley

Gdmoody: it was under a rapid fire situation. If a squib was the issue, would it and the next bullet remain in the barrel? As I'm new, a squib is a result of an underpowered load, correct?

If is were a squib load, the squib bullet would have left the brass and lodged in the barrel (could have gone half an inch or it could have gone three inches). The next cartridge, being of full power, the bullet would have hit the obstruction and blow the barrel. After looking at the pictures closer, that really doesn't look like the results of a squib load, it looks like a catastrophic failure of the brass itself!!

I have had squib loads myself, but I never fire in such a rapid fire that I don't hear every round going off and have always caught it before sending a second bullet down the barrel.

Was the bullet still in the barrel or in the piece of brass after this happened?

CBirnley · 04-29-2012, 09:37 PM

Gdmoody: There was no bullet in either the barrel or brass. It does appear that the base of the brass gave away. I am fairly certain that the brass left the barrels on both rounds.

Weird deal...

76Highboy · 04-29-2012, 09:41 PM

Look at the brass that you have shot that was in that batch. Does it appear that the primers appear to be flat and partially extruded from the head of the case? Any that appear flat and extruded, or just dont look right, take a pic of them and post them. A flat primer is a sign of head space issues.

C.O.L. and head spacing are two different issues. From what I understand, and someone correct me if I am wrong, you can have C.O.L. and still have head space issues. Head space issues can cause dangerous situations like this.

todd51 · 04-29-2012, 09:48 PM

How about a weak crimp allowing the bullet to be pushed back in the case raising pressures?

76Highboy · 04-29-2012, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by todd51

How about a weak crimp allowing the bullet to be pushed back in the case raising pressures?

Great question. Measure the C.O.L. of the ones you have not shot. Are they shorter than they should be?

JasonS · 04-29-2012, 09:55 PM

glad your hand is ok bud.

CBirnley · 04-29-2012, 10:04 PM

76highboy and todd51: I will measure the remaining rounds and check the primers (post pics). As for the crimp..I think I have it adjusted as per the video as well as manuals...obviously something went wrong and I greatly appreciate your input. I will post pics in the AM.

CBirnley · 04-29-2012, 10:07 PM

JasonS: ya, I cannot believe how fortunate I was. If my mistake can help prevent this issue for someone else, then some good will come out of this event. Again..I was so lucky.

todd51 · 04-29-2012, 10:25 PM

I set my crimp dies per instructions and also measure the completed crimped round to see what the crimp measures. But I also randomly check by placing the nose of the bullet against the edge of my bench and pushing on the case to see if the bullet can easily be set back into the case. I have had this happen at times and it requires more adjustment on the crimp die to increase the crimp but you still have to measure as you can over due the crimp too. You will develop a feel when crimping and occasionally a different case thickness will make things seem easier than normal and when that happens it gets checked to make sure it got the needed crimp. With a weak crimp the bullet could be pushed deeper in the case when it goes through the cambering process. Check some of the left over unfired rounds to see if they have a good crimp.

CBirnley · 04-29-2012, 10:32 PM

Todd51: thank you for the suggestions...I will give them a try tomorrow evening. So much to learn...

312shooter · 04-29-2012, 10:40 PM

CBirnley,

First off I am terribly sorry to see this, and yet very relieved you are not showing us pictures of stumped digits.

Heres something else that may need a closer look....

Quote:

.40 Winchester case (either was new or only once fired)

sounds as if the source of your brass is unknown. If this brass was perhaps fired from an older generation Glock, you may have experienced a buldged casing which may have resulted in a few abnormal conditions. First a buldged cartrige may have not entered fully into battery and the gun fired in an out of battery condition. Another may be that a buldge was there and it turned into a "smiley face" as the brass folded over itself during resizing- a weak spot near the head that let go upon firing.

Lastly I would have recommended you stay faaar away from titegroup as a new reloader, that is rather fast and it will allow a good 2 1/2 charge in a 40 case. If you havent lost interest at this point start using slower powders that require more case volume for proper charge- a double will dump out and become quickly obvious. Just my .02

shorter260513 · 04-29-2012, 10:43 PM

Im new myself and I would like to know also but could the gun have fired before seating the load completely in the chamber causing the case to fail

JasonS · 04-29-2012, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBirnley

JasonS: ya, I cannot believe how fortunate I was. If my mistake can help prevent this issue for someone else, then some good will come out of this event. Again..I was so lucky.

I think it will, things like this are very good to see. Thanks for posting it and not hiding it out of pride. I dont reload but I respect it and hope everyone stays safe.

steve4102 · 04-29-2012, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 312shooter

CBirnley,

Lastly I would have recommended you stay faaar away from titegroup as a new reloader, that is rather fast and it will allow a good 2 1/2 charge in a 40 case. If you havent lost interest at this point start using slower powders that require more case volume for proper charge- a double will dump out and become quickly obvious. Just my .02

This is good advice. TG is responsible for many a 40 KB. Not that TG is the reason for your KB. it's just a poor choice for beginner reloaders in the 40.

As for a "Squib" I don't think so. If the round didn't have enough energy to get the bullet past the muzzle it wouldn't have had enough energy to cycle the action. You didn't hand cycle a round due to a jamb did you?

CBirnley · 04-29-2012, 11:02 PM

312 Shooter: i did have two case "wrinkle" mid case..li thought I was doing something wrong, maybe it was the bulging issue? Any suggestions you have fr powder would be immensely appreciated.

Shorter: it's looking that way...kinda

JasonS: believe me, I was initially embarrassed, and them I thought this event might be helpful. Maybe we should start a thread on "screw ups" not the person, the event

Steve: great feedback...lease advise on what "KB" refers to (I'm not real strong on the reloading vernacular just yet.)

Thanks again folks...keep it coming!

04-29-2012, 07:16 PM	#1
CBirnley V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Contributor Posts: 64	Newbie and Mistake Well by the title, you know how this is going to go...on the plus side, I can still type, which means this mistake could have been MUCH worse... I am looking for feedback on what went wrong with a reload. I am new to reloading, watched Hornady's videos (having purchased their AP LnL, watched YouTube vids with Hornady footage, went to the Hodgdon site, measured the powder (tared with the pan), verified several times I was throwing the correct amt of powder (measured and Powder Copped) measured the C.O.L (multiple times), spoke with a friend who has several years of experience (verified that I was doing everything correctly), and was VERY VERY LUCKY! I am NOT a fan of relying on luck... .40 XDm CCI small primer .40 Winchester case (either was new or only once fired) 155 Gr JHP Remington Hodgdon Titegroup (5.4 grs - starting load) Pics are attached...this mistake was way too close to be tragic... What happened? and how do I ensure to NEVER do this again? Attached Images -->

04-29-2012, 07:45 PM	#2
gun-nut Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: ohio Contributor Posts: 931	Re: Newbie and Mistake Is it posibal that you put the primer in the wrong way? __________________ Don't retreat just reload.

04-29-2012, 07:53 PM	#3
rcairflr Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Wichita, Ks Posts: 1,317	Re: Newbie and Mistake If everything you said is true, than this should not have happened. The powder charge is within the safe limits. Are you absolutely sure, you did not throw a double charge of powder into that case.

04-29-2012, 07:57 PM	#4
jlloyd73 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Contributor Posts: 1,931	Re: Newbie and Mistake Ouch............I am glad you aren't hurt. That is my reloading nightmare. __________________ --------------------------------------------------- The only thing better than good family is good friends. J and D Lloyd Get ready...it's getting "real" and really fast!

04-29-2012, 07:58 PM	#5
Frogtop V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: NE Tenn Posts: 220	Re: Newbie and Mistake Was this the first round that you fired? If not, approx how many rds fired before this one? Did any sound "funny" or feel differently? Reg or mag primers (can't imagine making that much of difference). Any chance there was something in the bbl? Did you physically look in the cases after powder charging for any that looked strange?

04-29-2012, 08:11 PM	#6
CBirnley V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Contributor Posts: 64	Re: Newbie and Mistake Gun-nut: I didn't think I could do that with an AP. My assumption is that the Loader would only load in the correct orientation. Rcairflyer: I would have thought the Powder Cop would have caught it. As nervous as I was about this being my first batch of rounds...anything is possible, but man, I even recall weighing the finished round and they were fairly close. Jlloyd73: yeah, well hopefully I'm done with this experience. I will say that firing the next round of reloads will be uhmmmm, well the pucker factor will be high. Frog top: I had fired about 28 rounds prior to this event and felt no issues. Regular primers...as for the barrel, there was nothing in it afterword. In the one pic, you can see the case inside the barrel and in another pic (with the toothpick) you can see the base of the case (sorry for not knowing the technical term). It appears as though the case base separated from the case, causing all the pressure to build up and take the path of least resistance. Mi did not look I the cases, but probably weighed every other round...,again, being new and nervous. I need to find out what I did wrong and get back on the bike, horse, motorcycle, whatever mode of transportation you choose. Thank you for your thoughs...keep'em coming. Oh and btw, had I not had my shooting glasses on...this could have gone REALLY bad, I felt the blast.

04-29-2012, 08:31 PM	#7
gdmoody Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Northeast Georgia Contributor Posts: 6,313	Re: Newbie and Mistake Rapid fire or slow fire? Was the previous round a squib that caused an obstruction in the barrel??? __________________ NRA Endowment Member GeorgiaCarry.Org Member Retired US Army Postal Worker Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take an ass whoopin'.....author unknown (but obviously brilliant)

04-29-2012, 08:36 PM	#8
CBirnley V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Contributor Posts: 64	Re: Newbie and Mistake Gdmoody: it was under a rapid fire situation. If a squib was the issue, would it and the next bullet remain in the barrel? As I'm new, a squib is a result of an underpowered load, correct?

04-29-2012, 08:40 PM	#9
76Highboy Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Meridian, Idaho Contributor Posts: 6,949	Re: Newbie and Mistake . Last edited by 76Highboy; 11-08-2012 at 08:40 PM..

04-29-2012, 08:47 PM	#10
CBirnley V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Contributor Posts: 64	Re: Newbie and Mistake 76Highboy: no to the manipulation or moving the case back a step. Regarding the Titegroup, I will try a double load and see if it spills over or not, if not, I would have thought the Powder Cop would have shown the larger load? I did not check the headspace, however I did ensure the COL was correct on about every other load. Thank you for the feedback and keep it coming!

04-29-2012, 09:37 PM	#12
CBirnley V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Contributor Posts: 64	Re: Newbie and Mistake Gdmoody: There was no bullet in either the barrel or brass. It does appear that the base of the brass gave away. I am fairly certain that the brass left the barrels on both rounds. Weird deal...

04-29-2012, 09:41 PM	#13
76Highboy Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Meridian, Idaho Contributor Posts: 6,949	Re: Newbie and Mistake Look at the brass that you have shot that was in that batch. Does it appear that the primers appear to be flat and partially extruded from the head of the case? Any that appear flat and extruded, or just dont look right, take a pic of them and post them. A flat primer is a sign of head space issues. C.O.L. and head spacing are two different issues. From what I understand, and someone correct me if I am wrong, you can have C.O.L. and still have head space issues. Head space issues can cause dangerous situations like this.

04-29-2012, 09:48 PM	#14
todd51 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Central, Ohio Contributor Posts: 2,572	Re: Newbie and Mistake How about a weak crimp allowing the bullet to be pushed back in the case raising pressures? __________________ Retired Praefectus Vigilum NRA Endowment Member

04-29-2012, 09:55 PM	#16
JasonS V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: UHG California Contributor Posts: 194	Re: Newbie and Mistake glad your hand is ok bud. __________________ Did you build people up today or break them down?

04-29-2012, 10:04 PM	#17
CBirnley V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Contributor Posts: 64	Re: Newbie and Mistake 76highboy and todd51: I will measure the remaining rounds and check the primers (post pics). As for the crimp..I think I have it adjusted as per the video as well as manuals...obviously something went wrong and I greatly appreciate your input. I will post pics in the AM.

04-29-2012, 10:07 PM	#18
CBirnley V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Contributor Posts: 64	Re: Newbie and Mistake JasonS: ya, I cannot believe how fortunate I was. If my mistake can help prevent this issue for someone else, then some good will come out of this event. Again..I was so lucky.

04-29-2012, 10:25 PM	#19
todd51 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Central, Ohio Contributor Posts: 2,572	Re: Newbie and Mistake I set my crimp dies per instructions and also measure the completed crimped round to see what the crimp measures. But I also randomly check by placing the nose of the bullet against the edge of my bench and pushing on the case to see if the bullet can easily be set back into the case. I have had this happen at times and it requires more adjustment on the crimp die to increase the crimp but you still have to measure as you can over due the crimp too. You will develop a feel when crimping and occasionally a different case thickness will make things seem easier than normal and when that happens it gets checked to make sure it got the needed crimp. With a weak crimp the bullet could be pushed deeper in the case when it goes through the cambering process. Check some of the left over unfired rounds to see if they have a good crimp. __________________ Retired Praefectus Vigilum NRA Endowment Member

04-29-2012, 10:32 PM	#20
CBirnley V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Contributor Posts: 64	Re: Newbie and Mistake Todd51: thank you for the suggestions...I will give them a try tomorrow evening. So much to learn...

04-29-2012, 10:43 PM	#22
shorter260513 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 262	Re: Newbie and Mistake Im new myself and I would like to know also but could the gun have fired before seating the load completely in the chamber causing the case to fail

04-29-2012, 11:02 PM	#25
CBirnley V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Contributor Posts: 64	Re: Newbie and Mistake 312 Shooter: i did have two case "wrinkle" mid case..li thought I was doing something wrong, maybe it was the bulging issue? Any suggestions you have fr powder would be immensely appreciated. Shorter: it's looking that way...kinda JasonS: believe me, I was initially embarrassed, and them I thought this event might be helpful. Maybe we should start a thread on "screw ups" not the person, the event Steve: great feedback...lease advise on what "KB" refers to (I'm not real strong on the reloading vernacular just yet.) Thanks again folks...keep it coming!