Newbie and Mistake - Page 3 - The Firearms Forum

Munch · 04-30-2012, 10:20 PM

I"ll start asking when I'm in there. Thank you again. After reading a lot of info it seems to help, me at least, to have it explained, while watching the process. I really hope I can find such a class. I love reloading already, and I have only loaded 100 rounds.

CBirnley · 04-30-2012, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 76Highboy

First, a squib is a load that is purposely underpowered. Bases on that, I doubt you had a squib.

I doubt you had a dud. Think of a dud as a fire cracker that did not work. It's just a dud. A dud would cause a bullet to become lodged in the barrel. If that happened and you were rapidly firing (or firing slowly) the casing most definately can be ejected out and the next round would then be chambered. Then, when you pull the trigger after the dud the catastrophie happens. The trigger is pulled and everyting happens causing the bullet to be sent down the barrel but the barrel is blocked by the bullet that is stuck because it was the dud. When the two meet, alot can happen. I have never seen it first hand, but I have seen barrels blown apart in gun shops. I have also see barrels that are bulged, where the second bullet forces the first dud bullet out leaving a buldge. Is your barrel bulged?

76highboy: great stuff here. Regarding the ring, those were the only three that turned out that way. To your point, I did not attempt to load them I the mag, given their condition. As for the barrel, it does not appear to be bulged, albeit I cannot get to it, as a result of the destruction.

This is my opinion. (I hope ALPO and JLA chime in because we need them. Where are the Supermen when you need them?) You either had head spacing issues or that crimp ring was your problem.

I doubt the crimp ring was your problem for two reasons.

First, it would not load into the chamber without jamming. IMO, the chamber is tight and that extra ring would hang up and your slide would not shut. However, just advice. A crimp ring should never be missed when reloading. If you see it, stop because it ruins brass and find out why. For crimping, I suggest the Lee Taper Crimp die. It's very wise.

Second, you were loading minimum pressures so even if the C.O.L. were short I don't believe with tight group the pressures would be high enough to cause that problem. If you were at the upper end of the scale then MAYBE that would happen, but where you are starting at minimum pressures I personally would count that out.

I think you either had head space issues, or you double charged a case. I don't use a powder cop because I inspect each case with my eyes. When each cartridge comes off the press, I grab it and run my thumb around it and set it upside down so I can see the primer. Each cartridge gets the full approval check over. I reweigh the powder every tenth round.

I am not a pro, I am just trying to pick it apart from my end the best I can.

CBirnley · 04-30-2012, 10:58 PM

76 highboy: I cannot thank you all enough for your thoughts! The class idea would be awesome...our local Community College may offer a "personal development"course. I could also contact Hornady and see if I could swing through their place...I only live about 90 miles from them! I do find it interesting that I could or locate a step by step outline for loading??

CBirnley · 04-30-2012, 11:01 PM

Munch: thank you for the concern...it could easily have been much worse! I think I'll go back through the Hornady DVD as well as have a friend stop over who has loaded for about 18 months or so.

JohnTheCalifornian · 05-01-2012, 12:09 AM

I can't comment on what may have went wrong with the cartridges you have loaded. But please, get yourself a reloading manual or two and read up on them before going any further. There is a wealth of knowledge in those books and they are worth every penny.

If anything, this should help serve as a lesson to people who are thinking of starting out and skipping the important step of reading a manual.

Even having the knowledge from a manual will not guarantee a mishap such as the one you had from happening. But, you would have more knowledge of what to look for and how to correct any issues.

Thankfully you are not hurt, and even more so, no innocent bystander was hurt as well. People have been killed by other peoples guns blowing up due to mis loaded amuuntion.

Archie · 05-01-2012, 12:09 AM

Mr. Birnley, it sounds like you have lots of thoughts by now. I'll make a couple observations.

One is the over pressure event happened in the chamber. A bullet stuck in the barrel (from an underpowered round) will oft move down the bore far enough for the next round to chamber and fire. The barrel bursts at the base of the stuck bullet. So, unless the prior bullet stuck in the bore just exactly in a place to allow the next round to chamber, this is NOT a stuck bullet event.

Based on that, there are two or three causes of in chamber overpressure events.
1. Double charge, or
2. Impacted bullet - the bullet somehow was pressed deeper into the case, or
3. The case failed due to defect, or
Some combination of the above.

So - since you seem to be pretty sure you didn't double charge the case, check to see how much tension the remaining loaded rounds have between case neck and bullet. See if you can push them deeper with your fingers or against the bench.

Also, examine the remaining loaded rounds for defects like cracks or oddities around the case, just forward of the extractor groove. The folds you showed in the middle of the case are odd, but not the area of the case that failed in the catastrophe photos you initially posted. (Someone pointed out that sort of fold typically comes from too much pressure in the crimping stroke.) If you have some unloaded brass from that same batch of brass you used, examine those and see if you can find bulges or INTERIOR cracks at the bottom of the case chamber.

As a last resort, get a bullet puller and pull all the bullets from the remaining rounds and weigh each charge to make sure none were double charged. (Yes, it's a pain in the neck.) If you find a double charge or two, you will need to review your process to see how it happened. (If it happened and you're looking for it, you'll find it.)

Allow me to add my gratitude to the Lord who watches out over those of us who aren't as careful as we though we were. (I've removed several stuck bullets from bores; although I've never blown anything up, I've pierced a couple primers and had a couple rounds that were considerably 'louder' than they should have been.) I am glad you were not damaged and you remembered your safety glasses.

MILGUY · 05-01-2012, 12:28 AM

Sorry about Your Accident, this Looks like the Same Thing That Happened to a Friend of Mine, He Was Shooting Reloaded 45's, Not His but from Someone He Knew, Gun Went off and the Guy next to Him Thought He Heard a Funny Noise, but it Was Too Late, One Stuck in the Barrel about a Little over an Inch from the Casing, and the next Round Went off and the Top of the Gun Went over His Head, Not Many Good Parts Left, My Friend Never Shot Again for over a Year, Milguy

CBirnley · 05-01-2012, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnTheCalifornian

I can't comment on what may have went wrong with the cartridges you have loaded. But please, get yourself a reloading manual or two and read up on them before going any further. There is a wealth of knowledge in those books and they are worth every penny.

THE CAPS ARE NOT YELLING....JUST TRYING TO DISTINGUISH MY REPSONSE FROM YOUR THOUGHTS.

AS FAR AS NOT BEING ABLE TO COMMENT ON MY QUESTION, I APPRECIATE YOUR INSIGHT.

PLEASE ADVISE ON WHAT OTHER MANUALS I SHOULD OWN/READ VS THE HORNADY 8th Ed. LYMAN'S, AND THE ABCs OF SHOOTING. WHILE ALL THREE ARE WELL WRITTEN, THE ABCs BOOK WAS EXTREMELY DATED. I HAD THE HORNADY MANUAL AND DVDs AVAILABLE THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE PROCESS. IF THERE ARE BETTER BOOKS, PLEASE LET ME KNOW.

If anything, this should help serve as a lesson to people who are thinking of starting out and skipping the important step of reading a manual.

I AGREE, HENCE THE REASON I READ ALL THREE OF THESE BOOKS, WATCHED THE HORNADY DVDs, AND VISITED THE ULTIMATERELOADER SITE.

Even having the knowledge from a manual will not guarantee a mishap such as the one you had from happening. But, you would have more knowledge of what to look for and how to correct any issues.

I AGREE, HENCE THE REASON I READ AND DID MY HOMEWORK. OF THE THREE BOOKS I READ, THE DVDs, AND THE WEBSITE, I DON'T RECALL READING ANYTHING ABOUT THE CASE FAILING OTHER THAN IN THE BARREL.

Thankfully you are not hurt, and even more so, no innocent bystander was hurt as well. People have been killed by other peoples guns blowing up due to mis loaded amuuntion.

I AGREE. GIVEN HOW ANXIOUS/NERVOUS/ATTENTIVE I WAS DURING THE PROCESS, I WOULD SURE APPRECIATE KNOWING WHAT CAUSED THE ERROR. GIVEN THAT THIS WAS LOAD 31 OF 32 IN THE MAG, I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THE FAILURE WOULD HAVE OCCURED EARLIER IN THE PROCESS.

Thank you for your time and consideration. Please let me know what other manuals would be helpful.

CBirnley · 05-01-2012, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MILGUY

Sorry about Your Accident, this Looks like the Same Thing That Happened to a Friend of Mine, He Was Shooting Reloaded 45's, Not His but from Someone He Knew, Gun Went off and the Guy next to Him Thought He Heard a Funny Noise, but it Was Too Late, One Stuck in the Barrel about a Little over an Inch from the Casing, and the next Round Went off and the Top of the Gun Went over His Head, Not Many Good Parts Left, My Friend Never Shot Again for over a Year, Milguy

CAPS ARE FOR DIFFERNTIATION OF COMMENTS ONLY.

MILGUY: GLAD TO HEAR THAT OTHER THAN THE PISTOL THERE WAS NO DAMAGE TO YOUR FRIEND OR OTHERS. BELIEVE ME THE FIRST TIME I FIRE A RE-LOAD....THE PUCKER FACTOR WILL BE HIGH.

CBirnley · 05-01-2012, 02:29 PM

Mr. Archie: Your feedback is greatly appreciated and while have done some of the "testing" you suggested, I have not yet pulled the bullet. I will try that suggestion. Btw, I was out in your neck of the woods (kinda) I ran to G.I. today for work today. Thanks again for the input.

JohnTheCalifornian · 05-01-2012, 05:45 PM

CBirnley

Here is a list of Books/Manuals that people here have suggested and own for thier own use:

The ABC's of Reloading
Hornady 8th Edition
Lyman 49th Edition
Modern Reloading 2nd Edition

Any of these books have loads of information in them and would be very beneficial. I know I have learned a lot from reading these books.

Big Chevy · 05-02-2012, 12:24 PM

Just wanted to say good to see your Ok!! And thanks for posting this I also load for a .40 xdm, I found reading books helped, but look for info from everywhere. I'm sure you have realized by now there are a lot of really good people in this forum that are more than happy to answer any questions you can think of. I am also new to reloading, and always love seeing more people get into it.

04-30-2012, 10:20 PM	#51
Munch V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Puyallup, WA. Posts: 321	Re: Newbie and Mistake I"ll start asking when I'm in there. Thank you again. After reading a lot of info it seems to help, me at least, to have it explained, while watching the process. I really hope I can find such a class. I love reloading already, and I have only loaded 100 rounds.

04-30-2012, 10:58 PM	#53
CBirnley V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Contributor Posts: 64	Re: Newbie and Mistake 76 highboy: I cannot thank you all enough for your thoughts! The class idea would be awesome...our local Community College may offer a "personal development"course. I could also contact Hornady and see if I could swing through their place...I only live about 90 miles from them! I do find it interesting that I could or locate a step by step outline for loading??

04-30-2012, 11:01 PM	#54
CBirnley V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Contributor Posts: 64	Re: Newbie and Mistake Munch: thank you for the concern...it could easily have been much worse! I think I'll go back through the Hornady DVD as well as have a friend stop over who has loaded for about 18 months or so.

05-01-2012, 12:09 AM	#55
JohnTheCalifornian V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Bakersfield Posts: 439	Re: Newbie and Mistake I can't comment on what may have went wrong with the cartridges you have loaded. But please, get yourself a reloading manual or two and read up on them before going any further. There is a wealth of knowledge in those books and they are worth every penny. If anything, this should help serve as a lesson to people who are thinking of starting out and skipping the important step of reading a manual. Even having the knowledge from a manual will not guarantee a mishap such as the one you had from happening. But, you would have more knowledge of what to look for and how to correct any issues. Thankfully you are not hurt, and even more so, no innocent bystander was hurt as well. People have been killed by other peoples guns blowing up due to mis loaded amuuntion. __________________ Im not a complete idiot.... parts are missing

05-01-2012, 12:09 AM	#56
Archie V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hastings, Nebraska; the Heartland! Posts: 295	Re: Newbie and Mistake Mr. Birnley, it sounds like you have lots of thoughts by now. I'll make a couple observations. One is the over pressure event happened in the chamber. A bullet stuck in the barrel (from an underpowered round) will oft move down the bore far enough for the next round to chamber and fire. The barrel bursts at the base of the stuck bullet. So, unless the prior bullet stuck in the bore just exactly in a place to allow the next round to chamber, this is NOT a stuck bullet event. Based on that, there are two or three causes of in chamber overpressure events. 1. Double charge, or 2. Impacted bullet - the bullet somehow was pressed deeper into the case, or 3. The case failed due to defect, or Some combination of the above. So - since you seem to be pretty sure you didn't double charge the case, check to see how much tension the remaining loaded rounds have between case neck and bullet. See if you can push them deeper with your fingers or against the bench. Also, examine the remaining loaded rounds for defects like cracks or oddities around the case, just forward of the extractor groove. The folds you showed in the middle of the case are odd, but not the area of the case that failed in the catastrophe photos you initially posted. (Someone pointed out that sort of fold typically comes from too much pressure in the crimping stroke.) If you have some unloaded brass from that same batch of brass you used, examine those and see if you can find bulges or INTERIOR cracks at the bottom of the case chamber. As a last resort, get a bullet puller and pull all the bullets from the remaining rounds and weigh each charge to make sure none were double charged. (Yes, it's a pain in the neck.) If you find a double charge or two, you will need to review your process to see how it happened. (If it happened and you're looking for it, you'll find it.) Allow me to add my gratitude to the Lord who watches out over those of us who aren't as careful as we though we were. (I've removed several stuck bullets from bores; although I've never blown anything up, I've pierced a couple primers and had a couple rounds that were considerably 'louder' than they should have been.) I am glad you were not damaged and you remembered your safety glasses. __________________ Be at Peace; go forth, spread enlightenment and joy to all. Wear clean underwear and take a gun. http://oldmanmontgomery.wordpress.com/ for my thoughts...

05-01-2012, 12:28 AM	#57
MILGUY Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 4	Re: Newbie and Mistake Sorry about Your Accident, this Looks like the Same Thing That Happened to a Friend of Mine, He Was Shooting Reloaded 45's, Not His but from Someone He Knew, Gun Went off and the Guy next to Him Thought He Heard a Funny Noise, but it Was Too Late, One Stuck in the Barrel about a Little over an Inch from the Casing, and the next Round Went off and the Top of the Gun Went over His Head, Not Many Good Parts Left, My Friend Never Shot Again for over a Year, Milguy

05-01-2012, 02:29 PM	#60
CBirnley V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Contributor Posts: 64	Re: Newbie and Mistake Mr. Archie: Your feedback is greatly appreciated and while have done some of the "testing" you suggested, I have not yet pulled the bullet. I will try that suggestion. Btw, I was out in your neck of the woods (kinda) I ran to G.I. today for work today. Thanks again for the input.

05-01-2012, 05:45 PM	#61
JohnTheCalifornian V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Bakersfield Posts: 439	Re: Newbie and Mistake CBirnley Here is a list of Books/Manuals that people here have suggested and own for thier own use: The ABC's of Reloading Hornady 8th Edition Lyman 49th Edition Modern Reloading 2nd Edition Any of these books have loads of information in them and would be very beneficial. I know I have learned a lot from reading these books. __________________ Im not a complete idiot.... parts are missing

05-02-2012, 12:24 PM	#62
Big Chevy V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: S.W. Florida Posts: 347	Re: Newbie and Mistake Just wanted to say good to see your Ok!! And thanks for posting this I also load for a .40 xdm, I found reading books helped, but look for info from everywhere. I'm sure you have realized by now there are a lot of really good people in this forum that are more than happy to answer any questions you can think of. I am also new to reloading, and always love seeing more people get into it.