Noob in reloading has a question - The Firearms Forum

Cho · 04-30-2012, 07:08 PM

Hello guys,

As I already said, im a total noob to reloading, I just bought my first kit and pretty much everything I need to reload. I have read a lot on the subject but never done any before. I bought a LEE auto index deluxe version 4 hole turret press with lee carbide 3 dies ... Now I have a huge problem, I noticed that I really gotta take my time to try to place each bullet on the shell VERY PERFECTLY aligned straight before pushing it in the seating die otherwise it gets misaligned and you can see clearly that its not perfectly straight but has a little angle. I guess this is not normal? I worked for 2 hrs to make 10 bullets that are straight, cuz I had to re-do every one of them at least 4-5 times cuz no matter how perfectly I try to align the bullet it still has a little angle in it when finished, MAYBE 1 out of 3 times it seems perfectly straight. Is it me not being experienced or it isnt supposed to be like this? I checked the seating die and everything seems good to me, it is not screwed cross thread or something to my eye it seems straight, only thing is I believe the shell moves just a tad when pressure gets applied on the bullet (cuz when you put the shell in that adapter it is not very solid, its kinda loose I don’t know if its normal .. ) and I believe it moves the shell just a tad and the bullet gets moved just a little to get out of perfect position where I placed it and it makes it go in misaligned.

I thought the die was supposed to be seating the bullet perfectly itself without you doing much, right now I spend 20 seconds to deprime it, prime, resize, put in the powder and then I spend 20 mins trying to put the bullet on top of it. Something seems awfully wrong.

I just did some testing yesterday and I found one part of the problem I believe. That seating die, in the instructions it said to screw it all the way down until it touches the shell and then unscrew 3 full tours and that’s it .. I have tried it, but thing is the bullet finished in the middle of shell way too deep I couldn’t even pull it out, so I unscrew it at least 4 more turns (7-8 total turns) to adjust it to the distance the bullet is supposed to be sitting .. Only today I thought about it and said to myself maybe that’s why the bullet wont go in well aligned maybe the shell needs to go inside of seating die even deeper, makes sense to me .. I already unscrewed once that cap on the top of the seating die but couldn’t understand what was the point of it because there was nothing inside of the die ... so today I completely removed the die from its location and took a close look at it and unscrewed again that cap on the top of it and just then I understood that it might be an adjustment how deep the brass goes in and then I thought maybe that’s the one I need to adjust ... heres a picture I took just to clarify it http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g1...SAM_2285PS.jpg ... so I decide to screw the die completely back in and then out 3 full turns like they recommend and then I adjusted that cap on top so that I get the good measurements of how deep the bullet goes in.... Is that what Im supposed to adjust and is this the right way to do it??? After I did this I loaded about 10 more bullets and saw very quickly that it is MUCH better than before, but still not perfect ... Some bullets are perfectly straight, maybe 3 or 4 out of 10 but the rest still have little misalignment and when I roll them on a flat surface you can clearly see that theyre not perfectly straight. Then I did some more testing to try to understand what is happening because no matter how perfectly I try to put the bullet on the shell with my fingers as soon as the bullet leaves the seating die its not aligned properly. I noticed that when the bullet enters the seating die, you can clearly see that its not perfectly aligned there either so it brings me to the conclusion that there might be a problem with either the die or the press being misaligned or the adapter holding my shell. I took some photos to show you: if you look closely at this one you see that its not entering the die well aligned: http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g1...SAM_2293PS.jpg ... and heres a zoomed picture where u can see even better http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g1...AM_2293PS2.jpg .... and no its not the angle from which I took the picture cuz this is exactly what I see with my eyes no matter from what angle Im looking I clearly see its not aligned properly. Do you guys think this might be the cause of the problem??? I also took a picture of the bullet that completely enters the seating die, is this how deep its supposed to get inside? http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g1...SAM_2296PS.jpg .... Should I maybe try to lower the seating die even lower so that it covers the whole shell and I just unscrew the cap of the die???

Sorry for the very long text, I hope you guys can help me.

Thank you very much.

carver · 04-30-2012, 07:31 PM

put the die in the turret, put the turret in the press, run the ram all the way up, and screw the die in untill it hits the bullet seat on the ram. Palce the brass in the bullet seat, set a bullet on top, making sure the bullet seat on the die is screwed all the way up. Pull the handle, forcing the brass, and bullet into the die. Screw the bullet seat die down untill it contacts the bullet, then make the adjustments you need with very small changes. You should be able to set the bullet on the brass at an angle, and the die will push it into the brass. The brass will cause the bullet to straighten up as it goes in.

Munch · 04-30-2012, 09:17 PM

I find that taking a factory loaded round, measured to be sure it's in limit. Place in your shell holder. Unscrew your seating depth waaay out and run the press all the way up. Tighten your seating die until it is firm, not tight, on the factory load. That gives me a good start and you can adjust down little by little to hit desired length with your loads. I am new to reloading, and hope that isn't wrong to do. So please let me know if I'm doing bad things!

Cho · 04-30-2012, 10:09 PM

I just did what you guys told me, but it doesnt work. The brass wont go inside the die any more than when I first adjusted it. I thought something was blocking it so I completely removed the die and unscrewed the cap on the top completely and pulled out the seater and there was a hole inside, I tried to put my brass completely in it and it wont go ... here's pics to explain ..

Unscrewed everything from the seating die: http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g1...4/IMG_0205.jpg

Proof that its empty inside: http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g1...4/IMG_0206.jpg

Brass inside empty die: http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g1...4/IMG_0208.jpg

What can I do now?? :-/

hunter29180 · 05-01-2012, 06:27 AM

am i looking wrong? in the first 2 pictures the shellholder is off center..when installed correctly on mine it is perfectly centered to die...must be a illusion....

carver · 05-01-2012, 07:46 AM

Inside your Seating and crimping die there is a seating plug. Sometimes these plugs get stuck, and don't move freely. I have had this happen to me once. Take you die apart, and see if the plug is moving freely.

Cho · 05-01-2012, 07:57 AM

hunter29180: Thats what Im showing in those pics too, it seems off center to me too.

carver: the seating plug is the one that is inside that you remove completely when you unscrew the cap or its part of the cap? Either way, I think I have removed it if you look at my pics its in there, I looked inside an empty die and there doesnt seem to be anything else that I can remove inside. Also when I put everything back in its place it moves freely, nothing seems to be blocking.

If the brass goes inside the die off center, it would be logic to me that the bullet gets seated crooked?? Its wierd since every other die, when brass gets inside it seems to be perfectly well aligned, except the seating die, if you look at my first pictures you will see ... yet when Im screwing/unscrewing the die from the turret it doesnt seem off center. Maybe its the turret?? I will try to change the die to another hole in the turret see if its the same problem.

myfriendis410 · 05-01-2012, 09:35 AM

If you assemble the seating die and shine a light down it is everything centered inside? If it is, the die body indexes the brass to center and the seating stem will necessarily center the bullet. If the seating stem is off center then you have a defective die.

RandyP · 05-01-2012, 09:54 AM

if all else fails - Call Lee customer service and they WILL be able to directly help you. Have you verified that your dies are set correctly per the Lee self-help videos?

http://leeprecision.com/single-stati...djustment.html

hunter29180 · 05-01-2012, 01:34 PM

I am looking at the shellholder not the die....

Cho · 05-01-2012, 08:46 PM

myfriendis410: I just checked it out and everything seems normally aligned inside.

RandyP: Yeah I checked out on their website and it says exactly the same thing like it says on my instructions ... I just contacted them hoping they might be able to help me.

hunter29180: no the shellholder seems well aligned, maybe its just an illusion on the photos .. I have rotated it to the left maybe thats why, you can see it on the 3rd pic ... but thats not a problem since I tried it in every single angle and it doesnt change anything

BTW I have tried switching the seating die into the empty hole in my turret and it didnt change anything either, still crooked bullets....

312shooter · 05-02-2012, 09:31 PM

[/QUOTE]I thought the die was supposed to be seating the bullet perfectly itself without you doing much, right now I spend 20 seconds to deprime it, prime, resize, put in the powder and then I spend 20 mins trying to put the bullet on top of it. Something seems awfully wrong.[/QUOTE]

This sounds more like the case mouth is not expanded enough or at all. If the belling is done properly the bullet should just set on top of case mouth and then into the seating process.

Dirtypacman · 05-03-2012, 12:32 PM

Yeah I would bell the case mouth a bit more and see if you start to get straight alignment when it gets seated.

mikld · 05-03-2012, 01:05 PM

I thought the die was supposed to be seating the bullet perfectly itself without you doing much, right now I spend 20 seconds to deprime it, prime, resize, put in the powder and then I spend 20 mins trying to put the bullet on top of it. Something seems awfully wrong.[/QUOTE]

This sounds more like the case mouth is not expanded enough or at all. If the belling is done properly the bullet should just set on top of case mouth and then into the seating process.[/QUOTE]

BINGO!

04-30-2012, 07:08 PM	#1
Cho Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 4	Noob in reloading has a question Hello guys, As I already said, im a total noob to reloading, I just bought my first kit and pretty much everything I need to reload. I have read a lot on the subject but never done any before. I bought a LEE auto index deluxe version 4 hole turret press with lee carbide 3 dies ... Now I have a huge problem, I noticed that I really gotta take my time to try to place each bullet on the shell VERY PERFECTLY aligned straight before pushing it in the seating die otherwise it gets misaligned and you can see clearly that its not perfectly straight but has a little angle. I guess this is not normal? I worked for 2 hrs to make 10 bullets that are straight, cuz I had to re-do every one of them at least 4-5 times cuz no matter how perfectly I try to align the bullet it still has a little angle in it when finished, MAYBE 1 out of 3 times it seems perfectly straight. Is it me not being experienced or it isnt supposed to be like this? I checked the seating die and everything seems good to me, it is not screwed cross thread or something to my eye it seems straight, only thing is I believe the shell moves just a tad when pressure gets applied on the bullet (cuz when you put the shell in that adapter it is not very solid, its kinda loose I don’t know if its normal .. ) and I believe it moves the shell just a tad and the bullet gets moved just a little to get out of perfect position where I placed it and it makes it go in misaligned. I thought the die was supposed to be seating the bullet perfectly itself without you doing much, right now I spend 20 seconds to deprime it, prime, resize, put in the powder and then I spend 20 mins trying to put the bullet on top of it. Something seems awfully wrong. I just did some testing yesterday and I found one part of the problem I believe. That seating die, in the instructions it said to screw it all the way down until it touches the shell and then unscrew 3 full tours and that’s it .. I have tried it, but thing is the bullet finished in the middle of shell way too deep I couldn’t even pull it out, so I unscrew it at least 4 more turns (7-8 total turns) to adjust it to the distance the bullet is supposed to be sitting .. Only today I thought about it and said to myself maybe that’s why the bullet wont go in well aligned maybe the shell needs to go inside of seating die even deeper, makes sense to me .. I already unscrewed once that cap on the top of the seating die but couldn’t understand what was the point of it because there was nothing inside of the die ... so today I completely removed the die from its location and took a close look at it and unscrewed again that cap on the top of it and just then I understood that it might be an adjustment how deep the brass goes in and then I thought maybe that’s the one I need to adjust ... heres a picture I took just to clarify it http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g1...SAM_2285PS.jpg ... so I decide to screw the die completely back in and then out 3 full turns like they recommend and then I adjusted that cap on top so that I get the good measurements of how deep the bullet goes in.... Is that what Im supposed to adjust and is this the right way to do it??? After I did this I loaded about 10 more bullets and saw very quickly that it is MUCH better than before, but still not perfect ... Some bullets are perfectly straight, maybe 3 or 4 out of 10 but the rest still have little misalignment and when I roll them on a flat surface you can clearly see that theyre not perfectly straight. Then I did some more testing to try to understand what is happening because no matter how perfectly I try to put the bullet on the shell with my fingers as soon as the bullet leaves the seating die its not aligned properly. I noticed that when the bullet enters the seating die, you can clearly see that its not perfectly aligned there either so it brings me to the conclusion that there might be a problem with either the die or the press being misaligned or the adapter holding my shell. I took some photos to show you: if you look closely at this one you see that its not entering the die well aligned: http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g1...SAM_2293PS.jpg ... and heres a zoomed picture where u can see even better http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g1...AM_2293PS2.jpg .... and no its not the angle from which I took the picture cuz this is exactly what I see with my eyes no matter from what angle Im looking I clearly see its not aligned properly. Do you guys think this might be the cause of the problem??? I also took a picture of the bullet that completely enters the seating die, is this how deep its supposed to get inside? http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g1...SAM_2296PS.jpg .... Should I maybe try to lower the seating die even lower so that it covers the whole shell and I just unscrew the cap of the die??? Sorry for the very long text, I hope you guys can help me. Thank you very much. -->

04-30-2012, 07:31 PM	#2
carver TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: DAV, Deep in the Pineywoods of East Texas, just west of Shreveport, LA Contributor Posts: 11,283	Re: Noob in reloading has a question put the die in the turret, put the turret in the press, run the ram all the way up, and screw the die in untill it hits the bullet seat on the ram. Palce the brass in the bullet seat, set a bullet on top, making sure the bullet seat on the die is screwed all the way up. Pull the handle, forcing the brass, and bullet into the die. Screw the bullet seat die down untill it contacts the bullet, then make the adjustments you need with very small changes. You should be able to set the bullet on the brass at an angle, and the die will push it into the brass. The brass will cause the bullet to straighten up as it goes in. __________________ Y'all be safe now, ya hear! Lamentations Chapter 5: 1. Remember, O LORD, what is come upon us: consider, and behold our reproach. 2. Our inheritance is turned to strangers, our houses to aliens. 3. We are orphans and fatherless, our mothers [are] as widows. 5. Our necks [are] under persecution: we labour, [and] have no rest. 16. The crown is fallen [from] our head: woe unto us, that we have sinned! 21. Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.

04-30-2012, 09:17 PM	#3
Munch V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Puyallup, WA. Posts: 317	Re: Noob in reloading has a question I find that taking a factory loaded round, measured to be sure it's in limit. Place in your shell holder. Unscrew your seating depth waaay out and run the press all the way up. Tighten your seating die until it is firm, not tight, on the factory load. That gives me a good start and you can adjust down little by little to hit desired length with your loads. I am new to reloading, and hope that isn't wrong to do. So please let me know if I'm doing bad things!

04-30-2012, 10:09 PM	#4
Cho Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 4	Re: Noob in reloading has a question I just did what you guys told me, but it doesnt work. The brass wont go inside the die any more than when I first adjusted it. I thought something was blocking it so I completely removed the die and unscrewed the cap on the top completely and pulled out the seater and there was a hole inside, I tried to put my brass completely in it and it wont go ... here's pics to explain .. Unscrewed everything from the seating die: http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g1...4/IMG_0205.jpg Proof that its empty inside: http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g1...4/IMG_0206.jpg Brass inside empty die: http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g1...4/IMG_0208.jpg What can I do now?? :-/

05-01-2012, 06:27 AM	#5
hunter29180 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: in a motorhome where ever we park! Contributor Posts: 1,627	Re: Noob in reloading has a question am i looking wrong? in the first 2 pictures the shellholder is off center..when installed correctly on mine it is perfectly centered to die...must be a illusion.... __________________ As I get Older, I have come to understand why our Founding Fathers chose our countrys motto to be "IN GOD WE TRUST", somehow they knew in the future WE would come to the point that WE COULD NO LONGER TRUST THE ONES WHO RUN IT!

05-01-2012, 07:46 AM	#6
carver TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: DAV, Deep in the Pineywoods of East Texas, just west of Shreveport, LA Contributor Posts: 11,283	Re: Noob in reloading has a question Inside your Seating and crimping die there is a seating plug. Sometimes these plugs get stuck, and don't move freely. I have had this happen to me once. Take you die apart, and see if the plug is moving freely. Attached Images __________________ Y'all be safe now, ya hear! Lamentations Chapter 5: 1. Remember, O LORD, what is come upon us: consider, and behold our reproach. 2. Our inheritance is turned to strangers, our houses to aliens. 3. We are orphans and fatherless, our mothers [are] as widows. 5. Our necks [are] under persecution: we labour, [and] have no rest. 16. The crown is fallen [from] our head: woe unto us, that we have sinned! 21. Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.

05-01-2012, 07:57 AM	#7
Cho Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 4	Re: Noob in reloading has a question hunter29180: Thats what Im showing in those pics too, it seems off center to me too. carver: the seating plug is the one that is inside that you remove completely when you unscrew the cap or its part of the cap? Either way, I think I have removed it if you look at my pics its in there, I looked inside an empty die and there doesnt seem to be anything else that I can remove inside. Also when I put everything back in its place it moves freely, nothing seems to be blocking. If the brass goes inside the die off center, it would be logic to me that the bullet gets seated crooked?? Its wierd since every other die, when brass gets inside it seems to be perfectly well aligned, except the seating die, if you look at my first pictures you will see ... yet when Im screwing/unscrewing the die from the turret it doesnt seem off center. Maybe its the turret?? I will try to change the die to another hole in the turret see if its the same problem.

05-01-2012, 09:35 AM	#8
myfriendis410 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Lompoc California Posts: 543	Re: Noob in reloading has a question If you assemble the seating die and shine a light down it is everything centered inside? If it is, the die body indexes the brass to center and the seating stem will necessarily center the bullet. If the seating stem is off center then you have a defective die. __________________ Life's too short to shoot an ugly gun.....

05-01-2012, 09:54 AM	#9
RandyP V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 430	Re: Noob in reloading has a question if all else fails - Call Lee customer service and they WILL be able to directly help you. Have you verified that your dies are set correctly per the Lee self-help videos? http://leeprecision.com/single-stati...djustment.html __________________ Lee Anniversary and Lee Classic 4-Hole Turret, presently reloading .380, 7.62 Nagant (32-20), 9mm and 45ACP Last edited by RandyP; 05-01-2012 at 09:57 AM..

05-01-2012, 01:34 PM	#10
hunter29180 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: in a motorhome where ever we park! Contributor Posts: 1,627	Re: Noob in reloading has a question I am looking at the shellholder not the die.... __________________ As I get Older, I have come to understand why our Founding Fathers chose our countrys motto to be "IN GOD WE TRUST", somehow they knew in the future WE would come to the point that WE COULD NO LONGER TRUST THE ONES WHO RUN IT!

05-01-2012, 08:46 PM	#11
Cho Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 4	Re: Noob in reloading has a question myfriendis410: I just checked it out and everything seems normally aligned inside. RandyP: Yeah I checked out on their website and it says exactly the same thing like it says on my instructions ... I just contacted them hoping they might be able to help me. hunter29180: no the shellholder seems well aligned, maybe its just an illusion on the photos .. I have rotated it to the left maybe thats why, you can see it on the 3rd pic ... but thats not a problem since I tried it in every single angle and it doesnt change anything BTW I have tried switching the seating die into the empty hole in my turret and it didnt change anything either, still crooked bullets.... Last edited by Cho; 05-01-2012 at 08:56 PM..

05-02-2012, 09:31 PM	#12
312shooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Las Vegas NV Posts: 1,148	Re: Noob in reloading has a question [/QUOTE]I thought the die was supposed to be seating the bullet perfectly itself without you doing much, right now I spend 20 seconds to deprime it, prime, resize, put in the powder and then I spend 20 mins trying to put the bullet on top of it. Something seems awfully wrong.[/QUOTE] This sounds more like the case mouth is not expanded enough or at all. If the belling is done properly the bullet should just set on top of case mouth and then into the seating process. __________________ "Democracy is based on citizenship- perhaps the greatest gift the United States has given to the world- Power is vested in the people themselves, and government flows from the people" James M Henslin

05-03-2012, 12:32 PM	#13
Dirtypacman Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Merrimac Valley, MA Posts: 908	Re: Noob in reloading has a question Yeah I would bell the case mouth a bit more and see if you start to get straight alignment when it gets seated. __________________ Member HHRG and HSC, NRA Life Member, GOAL Member LTC-A

05-03-2012, 01:05 PM	#14
mikld Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oregon Posts: 573	Re: Noob in reloading has a question I thought the die was supposed to be seating the bullet perfectly itself without you doing much, right now I spend 20 seconds to deprime it, prime, resize, put in the powder and then I spend 20 mins trying to put the bullet on top of it. Something seems awfully wrong.[/QUOTE] This sounds more like the case mouth is not expanded enough or at all. If the belling is done properly the bullet should just set on top of case mouth and then into the seating process.[/QUOTE] BINGO! __________________ My Anchor is holding fast.