9mm recipe. safe or not safe?

[socalfamous87]

winchester 231 4.2 gr. with a 124 gr/rn fmj with the OAL 1.075?

[Alpo]

Not according to Speer #12.

4.0 minimum to 4.5 maximum with a 124 grain bullet, with an OAL of 1.135".

Your load is 60/1000 too short. I'd seat the bullet out more, if it was me.

[socalfamous87]

Originally Posted by Alpo

Not according to Speer #12.

4.0 minimum to 4.5 maximum with a 124 grain bullet, with an OAL of 1.135".

Your load is 60/1000 too short. I'd seat the bullet out more, if it was me.

It was only 50 rounds. I still have to make 500 more. Would you say those are safe to fire? Or would you pull the bullets out and start over?

[Alpo]

I'd get my handy-dandy inertia puller and pull 'em.

"Only 50" don't make it with me. Maybe seating them that short would not hurt anything. Then again, maybe seating them that .060 too deep has raised pressures from normal 30,000 psi to 50,000 or 60,000 psi, and the first shot blows up my gun. And my hand.

I don't know what seating 'em too deep did.

So, I'd pull 'em.

[Appliancedude]

If you just use the inertia puller to pull them partially out and then reseat them properly would that be ok? Just wondering for future

[todd51]

Dude, we are talking ammo here not cookies. Pull'm and do it right. What is the value of those 50 rounds? $10.00 at the most. Don't take chances. That is my plinking 9mm load also. 124gr Remington of Winchester FMJ, 4.2gr. Win.231, COL 1.13.

[Appliancedude]

You mean you can't eat them. So we are talking about pressing in a bullet. Why couldn't you slightly pull it out? Your not messing with the powder. Your just pulling it out slightly. I'm not trying to be smart here. I'm just curious. I havn't had this problem before, but it would be something I would try. Why wouldn't it work?

[JohnTheCalifornian]

I have used an inertia puller to lengthen the OAL I made too short BEFORE I had crimped the bullet into place. Doing that wont hurt them a bit.

FWIW: I believe Todd was referring to the original post, not your question.

According to Lyman 49th Edition;
125 gn Jacketed HP
Win 231
Start - 3.9 gns, Max - 4.4 gns
OAL= 1.075"

Although this is not the exact bullet, it's close. The load you are using is similar to this and you are near the max charge. Pull those bullets and start with the minimum charge.

[Alpo]

As JohntheCalifornian said, I have used the puller to "bump" 'em a little longer, if I noticed I made 'em too short. Problem is, it is difficult to have the right touch.

Bump it, measure it, still a little short, bump it, measure it, still a little short, bump it, measure it, good, now it's too long, can reseat it to the right.

Next.

Bump it, measure it, still a little short, bump it, measure it, still a little short, bump it, damn, too hard, bullet came all the way out.

For a small amount, it's probably easier to just go ahead and pull 'em and start over, instead of doing the "hit, measure, hit again, measure again" thing. That gets old.

[76Highboy]

I always say that if you have to question what you did, you should redo it. Once you pull the trigger you can't take it back.

[todd51]

Sure I have tried the bump it a bit and measure and bump and measure when I had a single cartridge to mess with but it is time consuming and sure as shooting you are going to whack it one time too many and pull the bullet in the process. With 50 to do that would take for ever. I bet you will save time in the long run to just pull them all and start over. I pulled the bullets on a box of .357 mag. reloads someone gave me this Spring because I didn't nor did he know how they were loaded. Didn't really take all that long to unload and then reload and now I can shoot them with out any worries.

[gun-nut]

I will not despute anything that is said here, but yes follow the book till you get to know more of what you are doing, the bullet should be pulled out and reseated , but i have found out that some of the min charges will work in some guns and others it will not. For example i did some 45's for my older 1911 using Unique with a 250gr RN. Then went shooting with a friend he ran out of ammo so he asked to shoot a few of mine. (He now reloads) I said shure.( Not thinking that they were my reloads) He tried a few in his XD. The bullets did go down range (no squibs) but just had no azz to run the slide. Just something that i have found out over the years of reloading. So i start just about .5 of a gr. higher then the min starting charge, (books vary) but i do watch the seating depth closely. Just my .02.

[76Highboy]

The only problem I see with trying to pull the bullet part way out of the case and then reseat it is if the case is crimped and you try to seat the bullet to the C.O.L. you may bulge the side of the case and that is not good.

[Hammerslagger]

All of my reloading reference books are packed away and unavailable.

Alpo gives good SAFE advice. Pull the bullets! Re-size the cases. re-charge with propellant and re-seat to the correct OAL. I would opine that bullets overseated by 0.060" are not safe with a near max charge of 231.

To the best of my memory, about 20 to 25 years ago, when the 9x19 mm was becoming popular, Speer published a warning (about reloading it) that basically said that if the bullet on a 32000 psi load (of a propellant like 231, Bullseye, or other fast pistol powder) became over-seated by 0.100"; THE BREECH PRESSURE WOULD SKYROCKET TO OVER 70,000 psi. Pistol pressures above 60K likely rupture cases (that are not fully supported) and damage things and people. I have personally seen both happen!

AS FREE INFO: Semi-auto bullets have to be seated with enough neck tension so that they are not likely to be seated deeper during the recoil and re-loading stroke of the pistol"s slide. Minimum safe numbers in English pounds are 50 lbs pressure for .45 & 40 (10mm) caliber ammo; and 35 lbs. pressure for .38 and 9 mm caliber ammo. Reloaded ammo should be scale (like a digital bathroom scale) tested to insure that your bullets do not move deeper under these loads. If the do your neck tension is not sufficient to be safe in a semi-auto pistol.

[Hammerslagger]

Post Deleted

[Appliancedude]

All good to know. Sorry Todd, when you started with Dude, I ASS U MEd you were refering to me. Totally get that it would be quicker to pull them all, I just didn't get why bumping them out would be unsafe. Providing they fit in a case gauge I would totally try it. Maybe not now. Didn't think about bulging the case. Like I said I havn't over seated yet, but I'm sure I will at some point. So now I know. Thanks

[steve4102]

I'm not seeing the problem here.
According to Hodgdon the Start charge for 125gr Sierra FMJ RN is 4.4gr with an OAL of 1.090. The OP's OAL is only .015 shorter than Hodgdon data and he is also .2gr UNDER Min.

According to Sierra #5 the Start charge for their 125gr FMJ RN is 3.9gr with an OAL of 1.090. They also list a Max charge of 5.1gr for this combo. The OP's 4.2gr is just above Start according to Sierra Data and OAL is only .015 shorter.


The problem I do see is the OP loaded 50 rounds before testing them for function, accuracy and most of all safety.

[todd51]

Todd, when you started with Dude

Just funning with you. Any of us that have gotten into reloading have made mistakes and goofed up. But best practice is to undo it and start over. All we are wasting is a little time. Reloading can be fun but always take the safe route.

[steve4102]

I wouldn't be surprised if the OP's load didn't completely cycle the action it's so weak.

[LDJ]

(************

[steve4102]

According to Hodgdon his load is under Min. According to Sierra his load is .2gr above Min . No need to pull or reduce as he is already below Min .

[steve4102]

Originally Posted by socalfamous87

winchester 231 4.2 gr. with a 124 gr/rn fmj with the OAL 1.075?

What brand of bullet are you using?

[PanhandlePop]

Every manual that presents independent load information is going to provide somewhat different "recipes" for a given load. When working up a new load it is always a good idea to check multiple sources to have a broader understanding of the guidance provided for the load in question. In the case of the OP's load, it is a bit short for my liking (although we don't know the brand of fmj and that could impact the how deep the bullet should be seated). However, based on looking at various data sources, if these were my reloads I wouldn't be concerned. But if socal is new to reloading and even a little bit concerned (which he probably is since he posted the question), then he should just pull 'em and start over. Always better to be safe, if in doubt.

[steve4102]

As I was not convinced that your 4.2gr of 231 with 124gr bullets seated to 1.075 was dangerous I tested the load myself in my Cougar 8000.

I loaded 20 rounds with 4.2gr 231 with 124gr Montana Gold FMJ bullets. 10 loads were seated to 1.135 and ten at 1.075.

The first ten rounds were 1.135. These rounds cycled the action fine with very mild recoil.

The next ten rounds were 1.075. Again action cycled fine and again very mild recoil.

I compared the felt recoil of these loads with my standard range load of 5.5gr Unigue with same bullet. These 231 loads had much less felt recoil. I would not call them "Buddy Fart" load, but they are pretty close.

Brass and primers look fine. I did not run these over my Chrony as I was pressed for time. I will load a few more and run a velocity test.

[The Count]

Time for a reality check...Does it really matter if a 9mm bullet will go 100 fps faster or not? Does the paper care? No. Will it make a difference in self defense? By itself also not. Just stick to published max loads and end of story, those guys already went though the trouble to come up with min/max loads and OAL. No need to reinvent the wheel.

PS Benchrest rifle shooting is an entirely different story of course.